Dragon Age Dragon Age: The Veilguard Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Whiny-Butthurt-Liberal]

Well Tevinter is pretty much how most atheists see the Byzantine empire. Large,old,patriarchal religious head,slavery,nobility with emphases on old glory.

Exactly the same could be said of the Western Roman Empire. What makes Andrastian Tevinter specifically Byzantine? E.g. Tevinter is ruled mostly by the Magisterium, which is the analogue of the Roman senate. The head of the Magisterium is not even called an emperor, but the Imperial Archon, and is largely a figurehead. This is much closer to the way the Roman empire worked in some periods of its history, than the Byzantine empire, which was always strictly autocratic, and had a largely ceremonial senate that didn't have any power.

 

[Delterius]

What makes Andrastian Tevinter specifically Byzantine?

Its pretty obvious. Tevinter is the late form of the Not!RomanEmpire, perishing before the armies of Not!Islam. Further, the southern Andrastian Church has Not!England, Not!Germany and Not!France so its also a parallel for Roman Catholics.

That Tevinter isn't literally fantasy Greek Magocracy also applies to pretty much everyone.

 

[Cael]

Well Tevinter is pretty much how most atheists see the Byzantine empire. Large,old,patriarchal religious head,slavery,nobility with emphases on old glory.

Exactly the same could be said of the Western Roman Empire. What makes Andrastian Tevinter specifically Byzantine? E.g. Tevinter is ruled mostly by the Magisterium, which is the analogue of the Roman senate. The head of the Magisterium is not even called an emperor, but the Imperial Archon, and is largely a figurehead. This is much closer to the way the Roman empire worked in some periods of its history, than the Byzantine empire, which was always strictly autocratic, and had a largely ceremonial senate that didn't have any power.

The Western Empire was not attacked by the Ottoman empire (aka the Qunari), whch makes the Eastern Empire more likely.

Also, there is the allegory of the Orthodox faith, which the Western Empire never had (they got Catholicism instead). It was the Eastern Empire that had the Orthodox faith.

 

[Cael]

Further down is another extremely vague reference:

"Militant Islamic Borg"
"The Qunari have been nicknamed "militant Islamic Borg" by lead writer David Gaider. Gaider later clarified that he meant this as reference to the Qunari's relationship with the other nations of Thedas, not to the specific tenets of Islam."

The quote is from the old boards, so it's going to be impossible to really confirm it, but there's a thread called "Will DA2 be racist?" on BSN, and the link to the old thread is here. ···

d·day! 16:50, December 28, 2012 (UTC)

Whereby a nickname is hardly 'inspired by' & he actually distances himself from comparing them in a religious sense.

Furthermore, as I have already said, any new fantasy creation will be an amalgam, to which only a complete idiot would demand a direct allegory: See Tolkien vs Retarded Fans/aka SJW politicotards.

Your clutching at straws is amusing. Since you will not take the word of the writer himself, you are not worth debating. To you, the author is, indeed, dead.

 

[Whiny-Butthurt-Liberal]

Bu... but then, the fate of Tevinter Imperium is to fall to the Qunari? Or will Eaware leave it up to players to decide the ending of the game?

 

[Cael]

Bu... but then, the fate of Tevinter Imperium is to fall to the Qunari? Or will Eaware leave it up to players to decide the ending of the game?

It is possible. Sten did say that the Qunari are merely waiting for the opportunity and that scrap of paper meant nothing. And he is now the Arishok...

However, note that the Qunari in Thedas lost contact with their homeland long ago and they have no clue as to what is happening in their homeland. The appearance of Ogres doesn't paint a pretty picture, but that was later retconned into some stupid minor expedition by Thedas Qunari that got itself captured, except they don't send womenfolk on expeditions; the males are the soldiers and scouts. But, hey, Word of God and all that. This never happened to the Ottoman Empire.

 

[Whiny-Butthurt-Liberal]

However, note that the Qunari in Thedas lost contact with their homeland long ago and they have no clue as to what is happening in their homeland

Wait, what? How are the Qunari in the mainland executing complex assassination missions, if Par Vollen was destroyed by the Darkspawn?

Also, will DA4 be able to shed any light on the darkspawn, without confirming the existence/non-existence of the Maker? With the original staff gone, I suspect EA couldn't care less what the original intentions were. All in all, this is still pretty fascinating.

 

[Cael]

However, note that the Qunari in Thedas lost contact with their homeland long ago and they have no clue as to what is happening in their homeland

Wait, what? How are the Qunari in the mainland executing complex assassination missions, if Par Vollen was destroyed by the Darkspawn?

Also, will DA4 be able to shed any light on the darkspawn, without confirming the existence/non-existence of the Maker? With the original staff gone, I suspect EA couldn't care less what the original intentions were. All in all, this is still pretty fascinating.

They are acting completely independently of the other continent. It was never said that the original continent was destroyed by darkspawn. It simply said they lost contact with it. Note: This continent is not Par Vollen.

Dude, this is basic Qun lore...

Ogres, however, come from female Qun, and females don't go on exploration missions. That is not their role. If it is not the exploration mission that Word of God retconned into the setting, there is only one other place they could have come.

That is why I said the initial setting was good, but they fucked it up after.

 

[Whiny-Butthurt-Liberal]

They are acting completely independently of the other continent. It was never said that the original continent was destroyed by darkspawn. It simply said they lost contact with it.

Dude, this is basic Qun lore...

Ogres, however, come from female Qun, and females don't go on exploration missions. That is not their role. If it is not the exploration mission that Word of God retconned into the setting, there is only one other place they could have come.

That is why I said the initial setting was good, but they fucked it up after.

The original Kossith continent was lost a long time ago, it's ancient history. The Qunari are now settled in the northern islands of Thedas, and probably don't even give a shit about where they came from at this point. Also, ogres originate from the first Kossith settlement on Thedas, that probably predates the Qun.

 

[Cael]

The original Kossith continent was lost a long time ago, it's ancient history. The Qunari are now settled in the northern islands of Thedas, and probably don't even give a shit about where they came from at this point. Also, ogres originate from the first Kossith settlement on Thedas, that probably predates the Qun.

It is not that ancient a history if the Qunari are still talking about it. I believe they arrived only 150 years ago? That figure is stuck in my mind.

As for that settlement, that is a retcon that I find hard to believe. They came from a NORTHERN continent, but somehow ended in the south side of the continent with a massive landmass in the way. That is like European explorers not caring about the whole of Africa and only settled in South Africa. Something is wrong with that retcon. It is also the second retcon, I believe. I remember reading about the exploration mission, probably until someone pointed out the female thing.

 

[Whiny-Butthurt-Liberal]

They came from a NORTHERN continent, but somehow ended in the south side of the continent with a massive landmass in the way

Acktschually, the Qunari came from an Eastern continent. And the place of that supposed settlement (Korcary Wilds, the same place we visit in the beginning of Dragon Fag: Origins) is pretty close to the ocean...

Although, this begs the question of why the ancient Kossith explorers settled on the south side of Thedas, whereas the Qunari invasion several centuries later took the Northern islands...

Something is wrong with that retcon.

Well, yeah. Bioware wrote it.

 

[Cael]

They came from a NORTHERN continent, but somehow ended in the south side of the continent with a massive landmass in the way

Acktschually, the Qunari came from an Eastern continent. And the place of that supposed settlement (Korcary Wilds, the same place we visit in the beginning of Dragon Fag: Origins) is pretty close to the ocean...

Although, this begs the question of why the ancient Kossith explorers settled on the south side of Thedas, whereas the Qunari invasion several centuries later took the Northern islands...

Something is wrong with that retcon.

Well, yeah. Bioware wrote it.

Across the Northern Ocean, which mean at best, the continent was to the northeast. You don't do a round the world cruise with an invasion force, as you noted.

Gaider and his gang actually had a pretty coherent and tight narrative going in the beginning. It started falling apart afterwards with all the retcons. And they tried to put in the dramatic reveals with all the ancient beings that have been around for centuries. That never works, especially when they tried to make it seem as if all the ancient being have lost all their power. DAI was just a logical and narrative mess because of all that shit, but it really started in the novels.

 

[Roqua]

The news release should read -

A new console game with extremely lite rpg elements will also have a shitty pc port. You will have to navigate through 17 screens to get to the right list they are using instead of a real inventory because controller UIs are awful. This game will be more of a slightly interactive story with a little bit of game thrown in, because games should be passive storytelling mediums like books and movies.


Our Prime Directive will, of course, be political activism and virtue signaling.

 

[fantadomat]

They came from a NORTHERN continent, but somehow ended in the south side of the continent with a massive landmass in the way

Acktschually, the Qunari came from an Eastern continent. And the place of that supposed settlement (Korcary Wilds, the same place we visit in the beginning of Dragon Fag: Origins) is pretty close to the ocean...

Although, this begs the question of why the ancient Kossith explorers settled on the south side of Thedas, whereas the Qunari invasion several centuries later took the Northern islands...

Something is wrong with that retcon.

Well, yeah. Bioware wrote it.

Across the Northern Ocean, which mean at best, the continent was to the northeast. You don't do a round the world cruise with an invasion force, as you noted.

Gaider and his gang actually had a pretty coherent and tight narrative going in the beginning. It started falling apart afterwards with all the retcons. And they tried to put in the dramatic reveals with all the ancient beings that have been around for centuries. That never works, especially when they tried to make it seem as if all the ancient being have lost all their power. DAI was just a logical and narrative mess because of all that shit, but it really started in the novels.

I believe that they fucked up with the maps after the first game. Here is a one of the known world:

The Qunari island does seam kind of logical place if they come from the NE. Also Trevinter feels too small to me.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Gaider and his gang actually had a pretty coherent and tight narrative going in the beginning. It started falling apart afterwards with all the retcons. And they tried to put in the dramatic reveals with all the ancient beings that have been around for centuries. That never works, especially when they tried to make it seem as if all the ancient being have lost all their power. DAI was just a logical and narrative mess because of all that shit, but it really started in the novels.

Most interesting parts of the dragon age series is anything involving the darkspawn, grey wardens, and/or deep roads. The political stuff is... alright.
Everything else is awful.

Also, the later games really shied away from the 'grimdark' parts of Origins.
e.g., that Dwarf that was forced to eat her husband and turned into a broodmother apparently by raping her.

see also: Hespith's poem

First day, they come and catch everyone.
Second day, they beat us and eat some for meat.
Third day, the men are all gnawed on again.
Fourth day, we wait and fear for our fate.
Fifth day, they return and it's another girl's turn.
Sixth day, her screams we hear in our dreams.
Seventh day, she grew as in her mouth they spew.
Eighth day, we hated as she is violated.
Ninth day, she grins and devours her kin.
Now she does feast, as she's become the beast.
Now you lay and wait, for their screams will haunt you in your dreams

 

[Cael]

Gaider and his gang actually had a pretty coherent and tight narrative going in the beginning. It started falling apart afterwards with all the retcons. And they tried to put in the dramatic reveals with all the ancient beings that have been around for centuries. That never works, especially when they tried to make it seem as if all the ancient being have lost all their power. DAI was just a logical and narrative mess because of all that shit, but it really started in the novels.

Most interesting parts of the dragon age series is anything involving the darkspawn, grey wardens, and/or deep roads. The political stuff is... alright.
Everything else is awful.

Also, the later games really shied away from the 'grimdark' parts of Origins.
e.g., that Dwarf that was forced to eat her husband and turned into a broodmother apparently by raping her.

see also: Hespith's poem

First day, they come and catch everyone.
Second day, they beat us and eat some for meat.
Third day, the men are all gnawed on again.
Fourth day, we wait and fear for our fate.
Fifth day, they return and it's another girl's turn.
Sixth day, her screams we hear in our dreams.
Seventh day, she grew as in her mouth they spew.
Eighth day, we hated as she is violated.
Ninth day, she grins and devours her kin.
Now she does feast, as she's become the beast.
Now you lay and wait, for their screams will haunt you in your dreams

The problem is that they went overboard with the grimdark at the end of DAO and the whole of DA2. Basically, nothing you did came out well:

Spoiler

1. You tried to help that dwarf spread the Chantr in Ozammar? Haha! He gets murdered and the dwarves become the target of a crusade!
2. You helped Harrowmont against the trecherous Bhelen? Haha! He cuts Ozz off from everyone!
3. You helped Bhelen instead? Haha! You put a tyrant on the throne that genocided Harrowmont's entire family!
4. You tried to give more rights to the city elves? Haha! The new elf Bann gets murdered and shit happened!
5. You tried to stop Anders from blowing everything up? Haha! You CAN'T! Happy Templar-Circle War, bitch!

Seriously, nothing you did really mattered. Everything is ALWAYS twisted so that bad things happened. If I had any major gripes about DAO, that was the main one. Compare that with FO2, where what you did mattered. Entire towns lived or died according to your actions. You can change the face of that bit of the world for good or ill. Not in DA. Oh no. It is always a bad outcome. At best, you stayed out of the way and don't get involved so that you don't get the blame.

That. SUCKS!

 

[fantadomat]

Gaider and his gang actually had a pretty coherent and tight narrative going in the beginning. It started falling apart afterwards with all the retcons. And they tried to put in the dramatic reveals with all the ancient beings that have been around for centuries. That never works, especially when they tried to make it seem as if all the ancient being have lost all their power. DAI was just a logical and narrative mess because of all that shit, but it really started in the novels.

Most interesting parts of the dragon age series is anything involving the darkspawn, grey wardens, and/or deep roads. The political stuff is... alright.
Everything else is awful.

Also, the later games really shied away from the 'grimdark' parts of Origins.
e.g., that Dwarf that was forced to eat her husband and turned into a broodmother apparently by raping her.

see also: Hespith's poem

First day, they come and catch everyone.
Second day, they beat us and eat some for meat.
Third day, the men are all gnawed on again.
Fourth day, we wait and fear for our fate.
Fifth day, they return and it's another girl's turn.
Sixth day, her screams we hear in our dreams.
Seventh day, she grew as in her mouth they spew.
Eighth day, we hated as she is violated.
Ninth day, she grins and devours her kin.
Now she does feast, as she's become the beast.
Now you lay and wait, for their screams will haunt you in your dreams

The problem is that they went overboard with the grimdark at the end of DAO and the whole of DA2. Basically, nothing you did came out well:

Spoiler

1. You tried to help that dwarf spread the Chantr in Ozammar? Haha! He gets murdered and the dwarves become the target of a crusade!
2. You helped Harrowmont against the trecherous Bhelen? Haha! He cuts Ozz off from everyone!
3. You helped Bhelen instead? Haha! You put a tyrant on the throne that genocided Harrowmont's entire family!
4. You tried to give more rights to the city elves? Haha! The new elf Bann gets murdered and shit happened!
5. You tried to stop Anders from blowing everything up? Haha! You CAN'T! Happy Templar-Circle War, bitch!

Seriously, nothing you did really mattered. Everything is ALWAYS twisted so that bad things happened. If I had any major gripes about DAO, that was the main one. Compare that with FO2, where what you did mattered. Entire towns lived or died according to your actions. You can change the face of that bit of the world for good or ill. Not in DA. Oh no. It is always a bad outcome. At best, you stayed out of the way and don't get involved so that you don't get the blame.

That. SUCKS!

Uhhh well it was not much of a twist in the first game. You were well informed what will happen if you chose X or Y. You chose between hardcore traditionalist and nationalist and a sociopathic expansionist. The end result was pretty obvious. What did you expected by opening a chantry temple in such environment? It is like opening an atheist church in saudi arabia and expecting to prosper. Also who the fuck will give rights to the fucking slave elfs? If they want them,then they should fight for them! The first one was not "grim" per se,but more of realistic,you don't get the typical cliche outcome of happiness and goodness. You do get an actual prediction of what is going to happen in set situation.

DA 2 was total shit,the writers were just hammering their retarded narrative and nothing you did mattered.

The dwarf broodmother was really memorable part of the game,really dark and brooding. To be honest the whole game is memorable,i do remember almost all the things from the game. I did enjoy the darkness in the first game,it was after all about the upcoming end times.

 

[Cael]

Uhhh well it was not much of a twist in the first game. You were well informed what will happen if you chose X or Y. You chose between hardcore traditionalist and nationalist and a sociopathic expansionist. The end result was pretty obvious. What did you expected by opening a chantry temple in such environment? It is like opening an atheist church in saudi arabia and expecting to prosper. Also who the fuck will give rights to the fucking slave elfs? If they want them,then they should fight for them! The first one was not "grim" per se,but more of realistic,you don't get the typical cliche outcome of happiness and goodness. You do get an actual prediction of what is going to happen in set situation.

DA 2 was total shit,the writers were just hammering their retarded narrative and nothing you did mattered.

The dwarf broodmother was really memorable part of the game,really dark and brooding. To be honest the whole game is memorable,i do remember almost all the things from the game. I did enjoy the darkness in the first game,it was after all about the upcoming end times.

Dude, there is being racist, and then we have pure dumbfucktardery. The guy who set up the Elven Bann, personally blowing a favour with the king/queen and giving up god knows what in order to set it up, is the guy who almost singlehandedly killed an Archdemon and stopped a Blight. Would YOU try to kill his chosen representative? Seriously?

And in my case, he is an Arcane Warrior/Bloodmage who can and will suck all the blood out of you for being that retarded. Oh, and blow up mages by the bucketful using a single spell. Templars ain't got shit on a mage set up to kill other mages.

 

[fantadomat]

Uhhh well it was not much of a twist in the first game. You were well informed what will happen if you chose X or Y. You chose between hardcore traditionalist and nationalist and a sociopathic expansionist. The end result was pretty obvious. What did you expected by opening a chantry temple in such environment? It is like opening an atheist church in saudi arabia and expecting to prosper. Also who the fuck will give rights to the fucking slave elfs? If they want them,then they should fight for them! The first one was not "grim" per se,but more of realistic,you don't get the typical cliche outcome of happiness and goodness. You do get an actual prediction of what is going to happen in set situation.

DA 2 was total shit,the writers were just hammering their retarded narrative and nothing you did mattered.

The dwarf broodmother was really memorable part of the game,really dark and brooding. To be honest the whole game is memorable,i do remember almost all the things from the game. I did enjoy the darkness in the first game,it was after all about the upcoming end times.

Dude, there is being racist, and then we have pure dumbfucktardery. The guy who set up the Elven Bann, personally blowing a favour with the king/queen and giving up god knows what in order to set it up, is the guy who almost singlehandedly killed an Archdemon and stopped a Blight. Would YOU try to kill his chosen representative? Seriously?

And in my case, he is an Arcane Warrior/Bloodmage who can and will suck all the blood out of you for being that retarded. Oh, and blow up mages by the bucketful using a single spell. Templars ain't got shit on a mage set up to kill other mages.

Uhhh principles,believes and zealotry. Do you think that by killing a big lizard everyone will drop their believes and follow the heroe's believe? Also why would you waste your wish on unworthy people?

 

[Cael]

Uhhh principles,believes and zealotry. Do you think that by killing a big lizard everyone will drop their believes and follow the heroe's believe? Also why would you waste your wish on unworthy people?

Not drop their beliefs so much as not wanting to have the wrath of a mage who pops Templars and mages with equal ease on their ass :D

 

[fantadomat]

Uhhh principles,believes and zealotry. Do you think that by killing a big lizard everyone will drop their believes and follow the heroe's believe? Also why would you waste your wish on unworthy people?

Not drop their beliefs so much as not wanting to have the wrath of a mage who pops Templars and mages with equal ease on their ass :D

Nah,that mage just walked away in search for its wife and chield and left all that shit to the king and queen.

 

[Cael]

Nah,that mage just walked away in search for its wife and chield and left all that shit to the king and queen.

That is another bioshite excuse to get rid of the Warden so that he can't interfere with the bioshite decline of the setting.

 

[Reinhardt]

It's boring setting so no wonder main character abandoned it.

 

[attackfighter]

I thought there was something of the Ska in the Quanari:

• Viking ubermensch.
• Alien culture.
• Witness their past through flames.
• Quiet and reserved.

There's also a lot of lifted ideas from The Thousand Worlds setting by GRRM in Mass Effect, the Volus being the most prominent example.

 

[Whiny-Butthurt-Liberal]

DA 2 was total shit,the writers were just hammering their retarded narrative and nothing you did mattered.

One other thing that sucked cock about DA2 is how each chapter had a separate story that have nothing to do with each other, and only the first one lent itself to decent gameplay, because it was as simple as "Hawke is poor in a new city, he needs to do sidequests until he gathers enough money to go on an expedition that might make him rich.

Also, why the fuck are Qunari so obsessed with relics? The Artichoke stayed in Kirkwall for years, and eventually went on a rampage because of how much he hated it, simply because he wanted to recover the shitty tome of cucksuck. At the same time, Qunari are extremely materialistic and don't even have burials, because as soon as the person dies, their body becomes a meaningless husk and is thrown into a gutter somewhere. Shouldn't the same logic apply to the tome of Koslun? it's just a bunch of paper with words on it, I assume there exist plenty of copies of it, and the original no longer matters from their materialistic/utilitarian perspective. Same thing with Sten's sword - I understand if a Qunari warrior considers his "soul" to be inside the blade which represents his profession, but why would it be inside a specific sword? Just make/buy/take a new sword. Why are the Qunari ultra-utilitarian when it comes to bodies of the deceased, but ultra-ritualistic when it comes to perfectly replaceable tools of the trade?