Dota 2 Discussion (~Boston Majors & Road to TI7~)

[Cromwell]

If youe interested I would also watch some utube on dota2, I had the problem that most things I learned in my First 20-30 Games I had to unlearn in the next 20-30. You cant learn that much from newbs because they cant show you something. And some of the things you think are good actually are very bad. The first hero I loved was Ursa for example, until I played against players who actually gone the extra mile and forcestaff me or himself or generally took me out.

 

[Castanova]

What do you mean by "the extra moneys"? I've only played with friends against bots, so I'm unaware of whatever persistent progression metagame there might be which would involve "extra moneys".

Also, to your other question, bots are good practice for the basics -- i.e., the first 10 minutes or so. You don't learn any game strategy at all because bots tend to just group up and push towers but at the beginning you don't need to learn game strategy. You should be more concerned with doing what you need to do early on. Like, if you enjoy Faceless Void, try getting as many last hits as you can in the first 10 minutes. When 10 minutes are up, just restart and try again. You'll probably start with like 20 or something and just keep practicing until you can get like 40 or something. Then try him out against real people and feel more confident.

 

[SerratedBiz]

Bots are actually pretty good if you want to practice last hitting. Yeah, they cannot into strategies or complex behavior but, for that matter, neither can noobs. They are excellent at timing last hits though, especially on Hard and higher difficulty settings.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

dive right into noob games imo. bots give you a very limited range of enemy heroes to play against, and it feels really weird to switch from them to noobs, since the bots are so much better in straight up fights but so much worse at deciding where on the map to be

 

[Malakal]

Bots, as have been said here, are excellent at last hitting and lane control, they also chain their skills very nicely and are good at calculating when they can be killed so they heal/go back at the right time. Bots also always ward even if in the same spot. They suck at the actual tactical part of the game. But in the lower brackets good farm is enough to win no matter how bad your team is...

 

[Cyberarmy]

Practicing against bots at least give map and hero, item knowladge, DOTA 2 combats become hectic very quickly and fresh players mostly don't know what's going on at all. Practice makes it better and you can fail as hard as you can without getting flamed and avoiding somewhat snobby playerbase.
Tactics, advenced gameplay and better game, map control however need human oppenents and need many many matches/losses No pain, no gain.

 

[L'ennui]

Ok, thank you all for your input. I'll practice a little more against bots to become better at last-hitting with Faceless Void and to learn the items properly, but once that's done i'll go straight online and begin the long, arduous process of getting my ass kicked by 12 year olds doped on Mountain Dew.

In a few days, I would enjoy playing a few bros from the Hivemind. I'll scour the thread for Steam user names at that point.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Practicing against bots at least give map and hero, item knowladge, DOTA 2 combats become hectic very quickly and fresh players mostly don't know what's going on at all. Practice makes it better and you can fail as hard as you can without getting flamed and avoiding somewhat snobby playerbase.
Tactics, advenced gameplay and better game, map control however need human oppenents and need many many matches/losses No pain, no gain.

getting better at the game doesn't protect you from getting flamed at all.

 

[Cromwell]

As long as bots dont harass your mother in russian its not a reflection of real gameplay.

 

[Malakal]

Was watching some "pro" games and noticed that, after all, those guys are not that much better than normal pubs. Yes, they ARE better, but seeing guy playing magnus failing two reverse polarities in a row... Those things happen everywhere eh.

 

[SerratedBiz]

Faceless Void

From personal experience, I wouldn't go with carries like Void if you're still learning. Nothing sucks more while playing in a public game than someone picking a carry and being shit at it (I'm looking at you Sniper-picking mid-calling motherfuckers).

If I were you I'd go with a support character, preferably ranged. Learn what the game plays like and what abilities heroes have and how to position yourself properly and all that newbie crap from a safe position (not that it's any easier, you just don't gimp your team as much when you fail as a support than when you fail as a carry).

 

[L'ennui]

Hmm, I can see your point.

What is a support hero that doesn't totally suck on it's own? (As is, it could theoretically make a few kills here and there or lane a bit).

I've actually played a little as Io, and while he's really fun and gives you a ton of possibilities, I am no pacifist and would actually like to be able to harm things (although Spirits is not too bad... IF you can land all spirits on a single hero).

 

[Zed]

how to position yourself should come intuitively over time.
what you should make an effort to learn is items, and in particular why you get certain items, and skill builds, and why you pick skills in certain orders.

there are some general guidelines like "max nukeskills first", but those doesn't always apply.

here are some golden rules I follow. I'll start with mid tips:

don't start with bottle for mid, not even with AR money. spend money on stats, axe, or whatever helps you last hit, and tango/hppot to keep you alive until you can afford the bottle. going mid/bottle, I'd say zeus is the only hero who should still get manapots too, everybody else should just need hp reg stuff until bottle.

[I've started using this a lot recently] get wards for mid if you play a good harasser/blinker like storm, zeus, qop or whatever. place it on enemy mid ledge just outside range of tower. 150g is worth it, + you can ward 2nd rune (or 1st rune if your team is being gay) when getting rune. very nice playing as batrider too. helps vs pudge too.

playing as bloodseeker mid, you only need 1 hppot, or 1 set of tangos. the "heal on kill" works on denies too -- it's super easy to sit mid versus most heroes by just being a good last-hitter.

always get at few branches on juggernaut (magic wand is good on him). it's crucial if you want to ulti/ww combo early - and you'll want to.

highest damage item components are usually the most cost efficient, so if you're farming battlefury or something, try get claymore (1400) before broadsword (1200). obviously depends on stuff like a) some fag using courier or not, b) about to die.

drag items you are buying next into the Quick buy area in the bottom right. you'll hear a "ca-ching" sound when you can afford stuff. also, it makes it easier for you to quickly buy shit if you know you are dying. buying stuff before you die is something everybody should learn so that they don't lose unnecessary amounts of gold when they die. it's a little like starcraft 2 (but for different reasons): try to keep your gold as low as possible. exception to that rule: you are a nuker (being able to buyback and tp/get a kill can be worth it), or it's late-game (buy-backs can often be more important than items).

if your hero has skills that increases damage (razor's link, shadow fiend's necro), you should focus on getting hp/ultility or orb effect before going pure damage items.

when going for helm of dom/satanic, remember to charm a creep and stack ancients or a hard camp. also buy the armor/hpregen helm first, not the life leech thingy. pretty much all camps are: make creeps start moving away at 52-53, and it will stack.

tranquil boots are good boots for any hero going for vlad (you can break down into components). otherwise there's usually always a better alternative. it's good for ursa/phantom lancer, for instance.

pretty good basic builds for all heroes: www.dota2alttab.com

edit: god what an ugly post. oh well it's 4 am, good night.

 

[L'ennui]

Thank you, good Sir or Madam.

I will trust your advice implicitly, as you only play DotA 2.

I'd noticed the bit about Bloodseeker, it's rather nice.

I did NOT know about the quick buy area (/noob), I'll try that out right away.

 

[Zed]

press h to Hold your hero (good for slowing down creep wave or enemy heroes [if they chase a low hp ally]). instead of clicking like a retard.

if you have 2 support on team, an early flying courier (or when you see someone use it for the first time) is really worth getting for your team. especially if you have jungle hero/2 solo lanes. sitting on ground courier until 30 mins+ is shameful.

monkey king bar is a must/very good on carries if you're up against: phantom assassin, riki, brewmaster -- and any hero going for butterfly. MKB guarantees every auto attack to actually hit your opponent -- even up hill (which would otherwise have, I think, only a 33% chance to hit or something like that).

if you have midas, and you're max level or you're only in it for the gold, use it on weaker creeps ASAP rather than wait for big mobs. you'll only gain extra exp over anything else.

use shift to "queue" commands. works on TP. so if you want to move ASAP after using TP simply shift-click while teleporting (won't interrupt). can also be used to queue up attack-moves in forest if you want to go grab a drink or something
but don't rely on queuing skills (especially ultis) in combat. keep spamming skills even if you have them queued. sometimes it just won't fire.

alright, bed time for real this time.

 

[Malakal]

There are several noob friendly supports that I can recommend:
1. Lich - no matter how badly you will farm once you hit lvl 6/11/16 you are dangerous to the enemy team up until way late into the game. Ulti is just that good. Dark ritual is an awesome skill granting you mana and completely denying enemies gold and exp, nova is a spammable nuke and armor greatly benefits your team against mellee attackers. Just using ritual and nova in lane is enough in most cases to win it. Skill build: ritual (deny a creep as soon as it spawns in the first wave)-nova-nova-ritual-nova-ulti-nova-ritual-ritual-armor..., items: mekansm is cool, aghanim is cool, force staff/ghost/dagger are cool, but you can go naked as long as you cast your spells. Ward if you can.
2. Warlock - is ranged, good heal/nuke, for a totally new player ward/stats is perfectly viable, ulti has huge aoe and is easy to use while having a huge impact on the game. His other skills are also great, especially fatal bonds, slow not so much. A solid choice at all times. Skill build: ward-bonds-ward-bonds-ward-ulti-ward-bonds-bonds-stats..., items: mekansm is ok, aghanim is ok, refresher is ok, necronomnicon is very ok. Ward if you can.
3. Crystal Maiden - she is a bit harder to use since has no obvious killer skill, but as long as you level aura the team will benefit. Skills: one level in frost bite, one level in nova, max aura, dont pick ulti until you max aura and nova. Items: full support with wards, mekansm, force staff to avoid deaths.

 

[Cyberarmy]

I generally recommend Lion for starters, he has 2 good disables and very heavy nuke on short cooldown. Can nuke very good 1on1 early game(polymorph target, get near and attack 1-2 times depending on skill level, stun after target returns normal[protip: don't waste stuns on already stunned eneimes] attack 1-2 more times and ulti, most of them heroes are dead, low HP hereos will die oınly in 1 stun and ulti) and his disables help him escape most of situtations, very usefull on team battles if you can stun 2-3 in one hit. His mana drain is somewhat usefull too, especially for harrasing low INT heroes at early game.

 

[Malakal]

I dont usually recommend heroes that require new players to use more than two skills at once or requiring good aiming. I find it that new players have issues with that, and also with positioning themselves in battle. When you cast warlock ult positioning doesnt really matter, when you impale as lion it does greatly.

In my opinion lion is too hard.

 

[Kane]

I dont usually recommend heroes that require new players to use more than two skills at once or requiring good aiming.

you recommend all heroes?

 

[SerratedBiz]

I learned to play using Lich, I second the recommendation for a good support hero.

As mentioned, you'll want to put your first skill point into the Ritual skill (E) because it lets you deny creeps from the lane (which denies exp and gold from the enemies), while leveling up the aura (which does decent damage and slows nicely), with points in the Ult when possible. I place a single point in Armor along the way and max it last because it's much more efficient in the late game than in the early one.

Lich is a good choice because Ritual means you shouldn't have mana problems ever, and mana management is not always an easy thing to deal with. The thing you need to be careful about is positioning: he's an intelligence character and therefore pretty fragile. He only has slow and no stun, therefore you don't want to be in a place where an enemy can hit you repeatedly or where they can reach you with a stun. Basically, your job in a lane will be to harass the enemy heroes (hitting them with right-click when they come close for a last hit) and denying (attacking your own creeps once their health is below 50%, preferably killing them with the attack, and lowering the exp and denying any gold from the kill from the enemy heroes). The ulti should be used when you have a bunch of only enemy heroes clumped together since it will bounce between all enemy targets - even creeps. For best results, catch two of their heroes alone and it will hit them for a lot of damage.

A popular build for him is to go for the green boots since they make you very fast and also count as a free health potion on a 60 sec cooldown (and since you have infinite mana, that works great for you). Magic Wand is a great item if you learn to use it properly - most of the time, as fights happen and you start to lose health/mana, hit it, and let a few more charges in. Mekansm is a great item to get and a core for Lich, basically a heal and + armor in a nice radius. Try to buy a courier for your team and wards, especially if you're going on the offlane (the one that's shorter, ie top for Radiant and bot for Dire), since it'll help you avoid ganks.

Finally, I'd steer away from Wisp because he's actually one of the harder supports to use correctly (albeit one of the most OP when you do). Since it relies on keeping the tether up (which means coordinating with your partner, not an easy feat) and good control of spirits, the attack speed buff (which drains HP) and the tether stun... welp, I'd stay away from him until you're better at the game.

 

[L'ennui]

Ok, sounds like Lich is the next hero I'm trying, thanks all.

 

[Zed]

we won that 3v5 game so hard the steam servers started to burn or something. can't connect to dota servers and friendslist is offline.

 

[Orma]

Zed owned with Phantom cancer, I just silenced people.

 

[Zed]

Zed owned with Phantom cancer, I just silenced people.

I could reconnect now, if you guys are up for another game
MetalCraze

 

[Cyberarmy]

Skywrath mage is coming with new patch. Never played with him in elder Dota wonder how he works.
Also give me goddamn Abaddon and Terrorblade already :/

Ummm,