Dota 2 Discussion (~Boston Majors & Road to TI7~)

[Higher Animal]

lol what the fuck, goddamn in what other sport do the dickhead fans demand their manfus stick together or else lose all of their cash? I say we go a step further, we should confiscate 100% of the cash from the asian teams, tear up their passports, and break their hands: GO TEAM NAVI WOOOOOH.

In nearly all other sports the players sign multi-year deals that have specific bonuses and penalties related to their continued presence on that particular team. The result is that people feel loyalty to specific teams in part due to the continued presence of their favorite players. These teams also tend to develop specific strategies related to the personnel on their team, which further particularizes these teams from others. It allows the creation of an "image" which is distinct from other teams in the pool of competitors.

DOTA 2's problem is that very few people outside of the playerbase can identify with teams or playstyles. In order for a sport to work on a spectator level, it needs certain optics which allow for casual and newbie player fans to feel connected to the different teams. As of right now, each individual player leaves whenever he feels like it for whatever reason, and drops team loyalty when it suits his purpose. This does not allow for the development of consistent team play or identifiable signifiers which casual fans can understand. I think the best storyline of TI was Burning's last in 2014 with TDK. Here we had a specific person on a specific team with the specific purpose of wanting to win the title, and that created interesting drama for casual viewers. The more rapid-fire changes in team lineups that occur the less such stories are possible.

 

[Ninjerk]

Digital Chaos

 

[Ninjerk]

The Warhammer chest patch just dropped. The ultra rare set is, I think, this one:

Spoiler

B]

 

[Ninjerk]

Eh, not quite

 

[InspectorRumpole]

lol what the fuck, goddamn in what other sport do the dickhead fans demand their manfus stick together or else lose all of their cash? I say we go a step further, we should confiscate 100% of the cash from the asian teams, tear up their passports, and break their hands: GO TEAM NAVI WOOOOOH.

In nearly all other sports the players sign multi-year deals that have specific bonuses and penalties related to their continued presence on that particular team. The result is that people feel loyalty to specific teams in part due to the continued presence of their favorite players. These teams also tend to develop specific strategies related to the personnel on their team, which further particularizes these teams from others. It allows the creation of an "image" which is distinct from other teams in the pool of competitors.

DOTA 2's problem is that very few people outside of the playerbase can identify with teams or playstyles. In order for a sport to work on a spectator level, it needs certain optics which allow for casual and newbie player fans to feel connected to the different teams. As of right now, each individual player leaves whenever he feels like it for whatever reason, and drops team loyalty when it suits his purpose. This does not allow for the development of consistent team play or identifiable signifiers which casual fans can understand. I think the best storyline of TI was Burning's last in 2014 with TDK. Here we had a specific person on a specific team with the specific purpose of wanting to win the title, and that created interesting drama for casual viewers. The more rapid-fire changes in team lineups that occur the less such stories are possible.

I do agree with you, that it would be great if the Pro's didn't leave as often as they do now, but I think it should be up to the specific teams to decide, how they want to do their contracts. I also don't necessarily agree that Dota has a problem with viewers. I guess it depends on how big and casual you want it to be.

 

[tripedal]

The difference between Dota and normal sports is that in normal sports people are fans of a team, and in dota people are fans of particular players. There's still a continuity, it's just a different kind. When Secret was brand new, it still had a ton of fans because the players brought them with them

 

[Higher Animal]

The difference between Dota and normal sports is that in normal sports people are fans of a team, and in dota people are fans of particular players. There's still a continuity, it's just a different kind. When Secret was brand new, it still had a ton of fans because the players brought them with them

And DOTA is a team competition, which means that the more it becomes about the team the better optics will be.

Besides that, I find amazing individual plays that shift competition in DOTA very rare. IceIceIce and Miracle are two notable exceptions to the rule, but almost every successful victory requires team coordination and strategy to be effective at all.

 

[Mr. Pink]

People follow players, not teams. The name of the team is unimportant. Introducing penalties and other such administrative nonsense would stagnate the scene by locking good players in shitty teams, like how Ferrari and Dendi are chained to their organization. if you want to see what happens when a company dictates every aspect of their pro scene, look at LOL.

 

[Ninjerk]

Artour is back, boys.

 

[Great Deceiver]

Can't stand this nigger rap, though.

 

[Higher Animal]

People follow players, not teams. The name of the team is unimportant. Introducing penalties and other such administrative nonsense would stagnate the scene by locking good players in shitty teams, like how Ferrari and Dendi are chained to their organization. if you want to see what happens when a company dictates every aspect of their pro scene, look at LOL.

DOTA is a team game, and the scene will grow substantially when teams are strengthened by more commitment.

LOL is not a fair comparison. It's like comparing softball and baseball.

 

[InspectorRumpole]

New EternalEnvy team:

http://www.npgame.gg/

 

[Great Deceiver]

New EternalEnvy team:

http://www.npgame.gg/

Aui and EE on the same team is just too much sperg. Plus, Aui is playing carry so they'll never win anything.

 

[InspectorRumpole]

New rosters:

Team Liquid: https://www.teamliquidpro.com/news/2016/09/16/day-three-the-new-tl-dota-2

Alliance: http://thealliance.gg/

MVP.Phoenix: https://twitter.com/wykrhm/status/777015079220895744

Newbee: https://twitter.com/wykrhm/status/777073600352231424

EG: http://www.evilgeniuses.gg/

EHOME: https://twitter.com/EHOMECN/status/777128881853726720

 

[InspectorRumpole]

First post-TI lan in about a week.
Will be exciting to see the new teams in action!

 

[InD_ImaginE]

looking forward to EG,, their lineup is very strong now

 

[BlackAdderBG]

no liquid? they seem most interesting with mister 9k mmr

 

[InspectorRumpole]

no liquid? they seem most interesting with mister 9k mmr

Yeah, it's a shame there's only 8 teams.

 

[Ninjerk]

Great RP in Game 1 of Vega vs. Empire in the BTS Series EU

 

[Mr. Pink]

Strange to see DC not invited

 

[InspectorRumpole]

4 Chinese
2 European
1 SEA
1 Americas

Seems like a common distribution in a Chinese tourney.

 

[InspectorRumpole]

Boston Major announced:

http://blog.dota2.com/2016/10/the-boston-major/

Pics of the venue:

http://imgur.com/gallery/G1CBm

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

Boston Major announced:

http://blog.dota2.com/2016/10/the-boston-major/

Pics of the venue:

http://imgur.com/gallery/G1CBm

WTF no way. It's gonna take them years to rid that place of nasty gamer stench.

Anyway I gotta bitch about DOTA2 real quick.

Games take way too long and it's a total tossup as to whether the game will be fun or not. Really sucks when a game lasts 1.5-2 hours and there's a 75% chance that the game will basically be ruined in the first 10 mins.

So I have a few retards on my team who run around in circles in the base after first blood. Not interested in basically throwing another hour and a half of my life away so I abandon --> Get dropped into low priority ---> Can only queue for single draft (WTF I only like playing invoker!!) ----> uninstall

Fucking BS because every now and then I get a good game that's a lot of fun, but when 75% of play time is misery ugh. I'd be fine staying in low priority if they made it all pick instead of single draft though. Really hate how the game punishes you because you don't feel like wasting hours when a game is obviously lost.

 

[Ninjerk]

I abandoned a game last night because my team's picks were really bad and the Slark telling me how to play couldn't swing a last hit to save his life.

 

[Mr. Pink]

the complete story of the implosion of Team Secret, written by blogmaster Envy
http://archive.is/4OEUP

tldr;

ARTOUR WAS THE PROBLEM X

KURO WAS THE PROBLEM X

S4 WAS THE PROBLEM X

ZAI WAS THE PROBLEM X

ENVY WAS THE PROBLEM X

W33 WAS THE PROBLEM X

MISERY WAS THE PROBLEM X

FLY WAS THE PROBLEM X

N0TAIL WAS THE PROBLEM X

LULBA WAS THE PROBLEM X

PIELIEDIE WAS THE PROBLEM X

THEEBAN WAS THE PROBLEM X

UNIVERSE WAS THE PROBLEM X

CYBORGMATT WAS THE PROBLEM X

PUPPEY WAS THE PROBLEM ✔

During that week I [EE] contacted Panda and arranged a dinner with one of their top executives. Streaming deals in China are normally player only deals, they offered me 500k USD (this is an extremely high number in comparison to normal Chinese deals even) but I told them I will not cooperate unless my teammates get a deal.

actual tl;dr:

Spoiler

Tl;Dr:

-Secret took a 10% pay cut from players, unbenounced to them. Players were told there was a 0% cut from winnings, but 10% was secretly taken. Only pup knew about it and agreed to it.

-There was no player salary.

-Secret took 50% of money received from Panda TV. However, the Panda TV deal fell apart because Puppey did not fulfil his streaming obligations of 30 hours per month. Panda TV apparently offered EE 500K USD to stream. But he wouldn't take the deal unless other team mates also got that deal. The deal was later changed to 1 million USD + 250k from donations.

-The money taken from players was supposedly to pay for the manager. So Matt was paid 200k from his work.

-Other sponsors did not pay anything to players. Instead Kermal claims sponsor money paid for expenses.

-Salary was supposed to be 12-15k USD a month.

-Puppey is apparently a jackass and very lazy. Does not try to play. Universe left Secret because Puppey was so lazy. QUOTE: "This is the first point where I actually really start disliking Puppey. Eventually the lies get to you. I don’t mind him having a tyrant on the team if he at least does what he promises to do. But when he's so lazy and lies about everything only for him to spew lines like “When I talk, you listen to me.” is actually so disgusting."

-Puppey got physical with W33ha and bullied him through his career in secret.

edit: Misery confirms
https://medium.com/@MiSeRyDOTA/the-secret-is-out-25f26ceab1cc#.kr0a7d43a