Game News Divinity: Original Sin has sold 160,000 copies, already approaching profitability

[Jaesun]

Is Buzz trying for Try Hard of the year?

 

[buzz]

I was just asking, you dunce. The 250k figure mentioned in the magazine sounds a bit disappointing considering they got 160k in the first days and have been running the top spots for almost an entire month. Of course, they still sold well, but I was expecting some miracle 1 million thing to happen

 

[Zeriel]

The 250K figure was from a form of print media AFAIR, they tend to have long lead times for news, wouldn't be surprised if it was out of date by more than a day or two.

Ultimately our obsession with pointless trivia is misplaced--one thing is for sure: Larian definitely has enough money to bankroll the next project, and that's all we could ever hope for.

 

[tuluse]

I was just asking, you dunce. The 250k figure mentioned in the magazine sounds a bit disappointing considering they got 160k in the first days and have been running the top spots for almost an entire month. Of course, they still sold well, but I was expecting some miracle 1 million thing to happen

It won't hit 1 million before 12 months, so you can relax.

 

[Jaesun]

Actual Sales Numbers are not something we are going to hear about. I just DO hope it is in the amount that Sven can possibly continue this kind of series.

And of course The Isle Of Serpents Expansion Pack....

 

[Volourn]

Of coruse, they're gonna continue the series. This is like the 6th game in the Divinity series. LMAO

It should ell a million copies because even DD did.

But, this idea that DOS is somehow super popular is bullcrap. And, I like the game (though don't let that stop people from lying).

 

[RK47]

Of coruse, they're gonna continue the series. This is like the 6th game in the Divinity series. LMAO

It should ell a million copies because even DD did.

But, this idea that DOS is somehow super popular is bullcrap. And, I like the game (though don't let that stop people from lying).

Volly we shd co-op. Add me on Steam.

 

[Volourn]

Why the FUCK would I play it on steam? I bought it on GOG. hell, I haven't bought M&M10 because it's on steam and not GOG. Steam is too nazi like for my tastes.

 

[buzz]

I just hope it sells well enough that they no longer need kickstarter. The future of crowdfunding seems pretty grim,with all the disappointment and cancelled projects and whatnot. Though chances are that Larian is probably one of the few who can potentially do a successful follow-up campaign for an expansion/sequel. They also have the engine and production pipelines in place, so they would probably need less money for a new game. But how disappointing would it be if they make a new campaign and it isn't fully funded because of the kickstarter fatigue and fear from scams?

I also hoped that this was THE success story that was going to break good RPGs out of its niche shell. You know, with Bioware and Bethesda going "We want Div:OS's audience" and companies all over the world competing in this area instead of military shooters and Hollywood-style action games .This MIGHT still happen though, especially if consoles keep blowing like they do right now.

 

[Volourn]

"I just hope it sells well enough that they no longer need kickstarter"

They never needed KS in the first place. DOS being on KS was s pit in the face of all the legit KS projects. It's one of the reasons I don't give them any slack. Because, they are scumbag liars. And, just ebcause they made a decent game doesn't change the fact that theya re full of fukkin' shit. They are con artists who conned people out of their money.

 

[FeelTheRads]

BIS made FO2 (maybe give credit for FO1 too), IWD, and PST. that's it.

BIO made BG1, BG2, NWN, KOTOR, ME series, DA series, and JE.

BIO wins. No contest.

More = better? OK.

But Bioware made Sonic RPG and Shatterd Steel too, so I guess they win on quality after all.

 

[ZoddGuts]

Asking for 1 million copies sold

I was just asking, you dunce. The 250k figure mentioned in the magazine sounds a bit disappointing considering they got 160k in the first days and have been running the top spots for almost an entire month. Of course, they still sold well, but I was expecting some miracle 1 million thing to happen

It won't hit 1 million before 12 months, so you can relax.

Yeah, asking for 1 million in such a short time with a game that has no marketing is a bit much. But as long it keeps staying in the top sellers it should be able hit half a million sometime in Fall. Then when the Winter Steam sales happen, Larian will be able to do a Steam sale for D:OS which I expect to do very well. 1 million won't happen till next year and after going through bunch of Steam sales.

 

[Shannow]

D:OS is already much more successful than most would have expected. It uses design philosophies and gameplay that were declared dead a decade ago. It required KS to prove that there still is a viable market for this type of game (also proof that publishers are mostly greedy morons).
The only thing "needed" was for it to pay for itself. It pretty obviously did that. Larian and other small independant studios will hopefully continue in a similar vein.
But will this spark a new golden age of high profile good games? Hell no. There might be some publishers re-thinking and allowing a mid-budget title once in a while. Like MMX. But overall they're not interested in mid-budget titles with mid-profits (and nobody'd risk serious cash on this type of game).
Perhaps 1 million sales in a year? Not interesting if all the managers slobber over D3's 6 million in a week. It's the way managers work. That happens when you make games for target audiences and big bucks instead of simply aiming for good games (and enough money not to starve...).

Another question is how much sales figures over time are worth. 250k at full price seem to be much better than 750k at 70% off... *shrug*
D:OS also came out at a time without any major releases (of even remotely similar games). That probably helped a lot. I don't want to know how sales would have looked if D:OS, DA:I, PoE and Risen3 had all come out at the same time. That would have meant: STEAM topseller, my ass.

 

[Gragt]

I also hoped that this was THE success story that was going to break good RPGs out of its niche shell. You know, with Bioware and Bethesda going "We want Div:OS's audience" and companies all over the world competing in this area instead of military shooters and Hollywood-style action games .This MIGHT still happen though, especially if consoles keep blowing like they do right now.

Right. Bethesda's shit not only sells, it's also regularly called "best games of all times of the universe". D:OS success won't suddenly open closed minds. Heck, with their position, Larian will always be the underdog and seen as "good, but not as good as Bethesda". Besides, assuming they try to make a similar game, I doubt I'd want to see the result seeing how mediocre and/or crappy their games turn to be.

What it might do is to pave the way for other studios that want to revisit old paths and update them, since Larian showed it was viable. But that'll be mostly small niche developers, like Larian, not the big ones that are stuck in the same production loop.

 

[RK47]

I'd back another KS like this.

 

[Volourn]

"D:OS is already much more successful than most would have expected."

People expected it bomb? DD sold over a million fukkin' copies. DOS has no excuse NOT to sell considering the series' built in audience. FFS Why do you guys hate Larien so much you expected the game to bomb? FFS Low standards. Your name iis the internet.

1 million sales or bust. PERIOD.

 

[buzz]

I don't know guys, in a post-Minecraft world I find anything to be possible. I never thought a few years ago that the most viewed person on YouTube would be a guy playing video games, nor did I think that some of the more popular games sold on Steam would be a goat "simulator" or a city builder. The rules of winning in the gaming industry don't seem that clear to me anymore.

 

[Minttunator]

I'd back another KS like this.

It seems that most people who backed it are happy with the game and would back the KS for a sequel/expansion - including myself. It's a slam dunk!

 

[Crooked Bee]

DD sold over a million fukkin' copies.

In its first month? Link or it didn't happen.

And if you mean in its first year or in all the years that it's been out, then I'm sure D:OS can do that too.

 

[Azrael the cat]

"Fallout 1 and 2, Icewind Dale 1 and 2, and Planescape Torment all made money."

And, how about the canceled games? Sure wasn't enough to pay their bills and stay in busineess. BIS was a failure plain and simple.

My understanding was that BIS was profitable until the bitter end (maybe not enough front-loaded profit, but profitable nonetheless) - they went under because Interplay's publishing division sank.

Like most of the publisher-developers that dominated the industry from 1980-1995, Interplay was squeezed out by structural changes to the industry. They couldn't raise the capital needed to keep up with the changes to technology, and hence the spiralling costs needed to make the adjustment to console development, cd costs, competing with the emerging publishing oligopoly as companies like EA and Ubisoft were able to stike deals for exclusive shelf space in large retailers, etc.

Then they had to deal with Herve, on top of that, making decisions in the interests of Titus holdings (or whatever his company was called) instead of Interplay alone - raising debt against Interplay while devoting resources to the non-Interplay businesses, and eventually stripping+selling assets to cover the commercial group's overall debt problems.

But yes, Interplay were in deep trouble before Herve arrived - it was just that it was the same trouble that everyone else was facing. The midsize companies had too much pride and too many fixed costs, to downsize into a survivable niche, but weren't big enough to wear losses for 5+ years while the industry restructured. And once enough of them went under, the larger publishers had so much of the market share that they could squeeze out the remaining ones, by exclusive retail deals, corrupting the gaming press and squeezing out shallow but superficially pretty competitors for whatever hits the midsize companies had left.

Of the crpg publisher-developers, Bethesda seems to be the only one that made it (Bioware survived because it was never a publisher, and could strike a deal with the new oligopoly).

 

[Azrael the cat]

Two things are going to be really important, but difficult to quantify at this stage:

1. How many of the kickstarter backers will translate into purchasers for a non-KS sequel? Sales haven't been spectacular for these KS games, but most of those sales are pure gravy. If they can maintain the profitability, they can do more games of the same style - but that means KS backers would need to become purchasers for the non-KS sequel (for KS to really affect the game industry in the long term, these genres need to show that once KS gives them a start, plus ownership of their IP, they can kick on without needing their costs to be covered in advance).

2. How much value is retaining ownership of their IP worth? You'd expect that retaining the IP would be worth a LOT - in some cases (where the IP carries potential for a big-money series of sequels), it might be more than the value of the game itself. But it's buried (unreachable) value unless the developer can get enough funding to actually make a sequel exploiting that IP. The ideal scenario would be one where the developer has enough resources inhouse that they can bridge the gap using investment banks or other non-publisher investors, so that when they do a publishing deal, all they need to negotiate for is having their game distributed (like with Steam). But that's a pipe-dream - the outside investors aren't there at the moment, and the nature of creative industries like this is that they need funding due to the 'hit-miss' nature of the product, and because development costs begin several years before they can get an income stream for that product.

So instead, the question is whether their ownership of the IP will increase their bargaining position enough so that they can get funding from a publisher, without that publisher having much of a say over design, and definitely without the publisher buying the IP from them. I.e. will it be enough for the publisher to just get a cut of the profits?

Publishers will resist that like crazy. They'll be personally irritated by it, as people who they expect to arrive cap-in-hand start getting uppity. And commercially, they'll be scared that if the practice gets off the ground, it will hasten the collapse of their oligopoly. So it would need either to be a safe enough bet that the publisher can't refuse, for fear of looking like an idiot when the next publisher has a hit with it, or for a clear demarcation between mid-tier games and AAA games (the old 'single A'), so they be assured that their primary income isn't being threatened.

I suspect the latter will occur. But that's a cultural shift, and it could take some time. Either way, I'm holding off to see what happens in the product cycle AFTER these KS games, to see if any of these developers can convert KS success into a genuine independence from the publisher model.

 

[Shannow]

""D:OS is already much more successful than most would have expected."

People expected it bomb? DD sold over a million fukkin' copies. DOS has no excuse NOT to sell considering the series' built in audience. FFS Why do you guys hate Larien so much you expected the game to bomb? FFS Low standards. Your name iis the internet.

1 million sales or bust. PERIOD."

No. Stop the leis! Start t he truths. Moroan.
ROOFLecopter. Period.

Two things are going to be really important, but difficult to quantify at this stage:

1. How many of the kickstarter backers will translate into purchasers for a non-KS sequel? Sales haven't been spectacular for these KS games, but most of those sales are pure gravy. If they can maintain the profitability, they can do more games of the same style - but that means KS backers would need to become purchasers for the non-KS sequel (for KS to really affect the game industry in the long term, these genres need to show that once KS gives them a start, plus ownership of their IP, they can kick on without needing their costs to be covered in advance).

1. Why go non-KS? Ok, I see "some" benefits. But the benefits of remaining independant of publishers/"investors" with KS (or at least vastly reducing the quantity of outside financing) seem to be much bigger.
2. Why do they "need to show that once KS gives them a start, plus ownership of their IP, they can kick on without needing their costs to be covered in advance"? IMO, they only need to prove that they can deliver the promised games within a certain realistical budget.

2. How much value is retaining ownership of their IP worth? You'd expect that retaining the IP would be worth a LOT - in some cases (where the IP carries potential for a big-money series of sequels), it might be more than the value of the game itself. But it's buried (unreachable) value unless the developer can get enough funding to actually make a sequel exploiting that IP. The ideal scenario would be one where the developer has enough resources inhouse that they can bridge the gap using investment banks or other non-publisher investors, so that when they do a publishing deal, all they need to negotiate for is having their game distributed (like with Steam). But that's a pipe-dream - the outside investors aren't there at the moment, and the nature of creative industries like this is that they need funding due to the 'hit-miss' nature of the product, and because development costs begin several years before they can get an income stream for that product.

1. If the "IP" is valuable the easiest way to find out is KS. No?
2. Larian in fact had an "investor" for D:OS.

So instead, the question is whether their ownership of the IP will increase their bargaining position enough so that they can get funding from a publisher, without that publisher having much of a say over design, and definitely without the publisher buying the IP from them. I.e. will it be enough for the publisher to just get a cut of the profits?

Again, why would a small/mid-sized company, that fought hard to get free of a publisher's leash or never got a chance, use its success to get back into bed with a publisher, even at better terms than before?
The main use for publishers now - that devs can be pre-funded - is getting physical boxes into shops. And that is a dying distribution system (even if I dislike this development).
Gaming sites and social media already cover the interesting/good games. They'll cover sequels to successful games even more. Might still not be as effective as mountain dew marketing/hyping/advertising, but it's also a lot cheaper. And I expect that mountain dew marketing/reviewing will receive more and more criticism. So there might be some change here anyway. Enough people have stopped paying attention to "official" reviews.

Publishers will resist that like crazy. They'll be personally irritated by it, as people who they expect to arrive cap-in-hand start getting uppity. And commercially, they'll be scared that if the practice gets off the ground, it will hasten the collapse of their oligopoly. So it would need either to be a safe enough bet that the publisher can't refuse, for fear of looking like an idiot when the next publisher has a hit with it, or for a clear demarcation between mid-tier games and AAA games (the old 'single A'), so they be assured that their primary income isn't being threatened.

This, I fully agree with.

I suspect the latter will occur. But that's a cultural shift, and it could take some time. Either way, I'm holding off to see what happens in the product cycle AFTER these KS games, to see if any of these developers can convert KS success into a genuine independence from the publisher model.

This I also agree with, but with the devs still being attached to KS, and not with them trying to get back into bed with established publishers

Since we're already hypothisysing: Any chance of GOG moving from pure distribution to funding? (Not that I think it'd be a good idea.)

 

[PowerTorment]

Since we're already hypothisysing: Any chance of GOG moving from pure distribution to funding? (Not that I think it'd be a good idea.)

I think it is more likely that their parent company CD Project will do this - CD Project funded both CD Project Red and GOG. I have friend that worked at CD Project RED that told me that they are actually located in the same building a GOG.

CD Projekt (not RED) is already distributer in retail. From wikipedia:

"They are currently the official Polish distributor of products by (among others) Activision Blizzard, Codemasters, NCsoft, SEGA and The Walt Disney Company.[4]"

 

[throwaway]

Why the fuck are you people still arguing with Volly?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Why the fuck are you people still arguing with Volly?

Dunno man, maybe they're done playing the game.
Or it sucks.

Is it easy throwing all mage disciplines onto a single character btw?