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Vibalist

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I'm thinking more and more about this and I have to say I disagree with those who think music is somehow less integral to the overall experience of playing a game than, say, gameplay or any other aspect. At least in the type of game I enjoy. Would entering the UNATCO headquarters in Deus Ex be the same if it wasn't for the awesome theme music, for instance? Good music brings such gravity and emotion to a game that it simply needs to be there, unless we're talking about things like Football Manager, roguelikes or simple mobile/arcade stuff.

I recently tried playing Undertale and quit after 30 minutes due to the fact I just found the gameplay annoying and intrusive. I'd walk around exploring the general area and would *constantly* get interrupted by some inane low level critter that wanted to fight me. I now realize that part of my annoyance stemmed from the fact that the soundtrack would shift from exploration music to combat music whenever I got attacked, which broke the flow of the quite enjoyable exploration theme. I wasn't allowed to get immersed in the music that the developers put in their own game because it was designed to break it up all the freaking time. It's shitty design (although it could get better for all I know, I have very little interest in returning to that game right now).

In DOS I never got this feeling, even if the soundtrack shifted quite often. I felt like the OST was the perfect compliment to everything else, from the fights to the exploration. The graphical design in this game is also quite excellent, what with parts of the map serving as backgrounds to other parts of the map depending on where you are. This created a sense of adventure, but I don't think it would have felt adventurous if the music didn't compliment the scenery so well.

Maybe it's just due to the fact that Pokrovsky was such an excellent composer that DOS' soundtrack almost single handedly elevated the game from decent to good, but I have the same feeling when playing Planescape, MOTB, Vampire The Masquerade, Deus Ex and many of those classics. These games would be so much poorer if not for their music. Take VTMB for example. That game has pretty horrible gameplay, so it's certainly not for that aspect that you remember it. It's for the atmosphere, the writing, the voice acting and precisely the music that you think of it as a good game, which says something.
 

Neanderthal

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Gotta admit when I first played Div Div I thought it were shit, but I couldn't get music outta me head so gid it another go, kinda good shit. I'd probably not have finished IWD either if it weren't for Soule's finest moment.
 
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Sacred82

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[QUOTE="Infinitron, post: 4697706, member: 12987]
[/QUOTE]

5 playthroughs confirmed

Undead Noble Villain
Dwarf Barbarian Rogue
Elf Outlaw Hero
Human Mystic Jester
Lizard Scholar Soldier

:negative:


good thing from EA to final patch it will be about 2 years :cool:
 

Fry

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Too bad you have to buy the super special ubercollector's edition with a bunch of games you probably already own just to get the D:OS soundtrack.
 
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While I understand the sentiment aroused by talentlless hacks who write most game music, I will not allow developers off the hook because of bad industry practice. Every single piece of a game is integral. If any element of a game does not add to that game's overall effect, that element should not exist as part of that game.
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
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"BTW did anyone inquire or hear what they'll do to make hybrid characters viable this time?"

They were viable.


Music is important but anyone who claims it is as important as fukkin' GAMEplay in a fukkin' GAME is fukkin' stupid, mmmmmmmmmkkkkkkkaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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Sacred82

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pretty_princess.png
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
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So Bubbles, according to the report, when you make an "origined" character you get to pick the other tags? Like, you can be *Red Prince *Scholar *Noble or something like *Red Prince *Anti-Intellectual *Traitor's Blood ? That's very cool.

Bubbles: We've had a couple of requests from people who'd like to create their entire party from scratch at the start of the game.

Swen: Yeah, I've heard that quite a few times. In the single player campaign, that's currently not the case. I'm not gonna say “No” - we'll see where we end up with that. But we won't ship it with that option for sure; it would be an enhancement or a modification afterwards. Because I really want people to try out the Origin stories. And if you give [full party creation to them] from the get go, people are perhaps not going to pick the Origin stories; they're going to miss out on all the fun, because they won't realize how deep we went on all of the dialogue options.
Silly Swen ... more than anything I was excited to pick the four Origin characters and have them battle it out with no Chosen One bias.

Instead, based on this
You may still see the personal stories of the other NPCs unfolding if you play with them in your party, but these stories “might not go very well.”
it looks like your main character will be the anointed hero who ends up fulfilling his story no matter what, and any characters with opposing tags are doomed to get killed off or whatever. Fuckin' weak. The whole reason I was excited about this was so that I could sincerely role-play two opposing points of view and let the dice determine who wins. No "competitive questing" for me. :(

Bubbles: [pondering the Red Prince's corpse] Can I get rid of him?
Hah? Wasn't he your main character? Can you keep playing if your base character gets killed?

Blech, then there is his talk about the Chosen One and how that's a good thing and SP competitive questing was deliberately removed. :(

Oh well, thank you Bubbles for finally getting a definitive answer on this.

I'd get all "Rawr! Pitchfork! Refund!" about this ... but it looks like it will be a good game anyway.
shrug.gif
Just not the r/evolution I thought I was buying into. :(
 
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Bubbles

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So Bubbles, according to the report, when you make an "origined" character you get to pick the other tags? Like, you can be *Red Prince *Scholar *Noble or something like *Red Prince *Anti-Intellectual *Traitor's Blood ? That's very cool.

Yeah, I could select custom tags when I made my Red Prince.

Fuckin' weak. The whole reason I was excited about this was so that I could sincerely role-play two opposing points of view and let the dice determine who wins. No "competitive questing" for me. :(

The final version will have be a "relationship system", but they were still quite vague on the details. The most concrete example I heard (from Walgrave, I think) is that companions can leave your party if they dislike your actions. Hardly revolutionary, but it may turn out more complex than PoE's system.
 

Dorateen

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Fight the good fight, Zombra but I think you are arguing against some biodrones there who cannot wrap their heads around creating multiple characters in a party-based cRPG.

Within days if not weeks of the release, I'd wager someone will mod in the capability to roll a four character party.
 

Zombra

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Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Fight the good fight, Zombra but I think you are arguing against some biodrones there who cannot wrap their heads around creating multiple characters in a party-based cRPG.
Yeah. Short-term the only person whose opinion matters is Swen, and he's already made his decision, so nothing I say matters anyway.

Long-term, who knows? Maybe I can help raise consciousness a little, teach a dumbfuck the difference between "player" and "character". Do my part to evolve an audience with a little more sophistication, and get devs thinking about a better way.

Basically I'm trying to save the world I guess. :obviously: Join me.
 
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SniperHF

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While I like party based games as well I'm not sure where you got the idea it was going to have full party creation. Even a chance of it really. Was there some ambiguous language I missed?
 

Zombra

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Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
While I like party based games as well I'm not sure where you got the idea it was going to have full party creation. Even a chance of it really. Was there some ambiguous language I missed?
I don't know about full party creation, I probably leapt to that conclusion from the fact that DOS1 has party creation at start (only two characters, but still) and the pitch for DOS2 talked about a party of four characters. It never occurred to me that they'd cut back on party creation to a single PC.
 

Zombra

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On one hand, arguing that you want your characters to fight eachother is pretty dumb (it's like playing chess with yourself)
The difference is that chess is a 100% deterministic game with a completely predictable outcome. If I say John and Jane are both trying to steal the gold, and John picks dialogue option #6 and Jane picks #4, who will win? You don't know, I don't know, it's interesting to see what happens because we don't know all the rules. Maybe Jane will die, maybe John will die, maybe they'll both die. There's much more suspense there than with "John wants to steal the gold and Jane helps him and he will succeed no matter what" which is what every Chosen One story boils down to.

That's a simple example obviously - if you want to get deep into this I can write you a 10 page analysis of why multiple viewpoints make stories better. But you have to promise to read it all.
 

J_C

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Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
On one hand, arguing that you want your characters to fight eachother is pretty dumb (it's like playing chess with yourself)
The difference is that chess is a 100% deterministic game with a completely predictable outcome. If I say John and Jane are both trying to steal the gold, and John picks dialogue option #6 and Jane picks #4, who will win? You don't know, I don't know, it's interesting to see what happens because we don't know all the rules. Maybe Jane will die, maybe John will die, maybe they'll both die. There's much more suspense there than with "John wants to steal the gold and Jane helps him and he will succeed no matter what" which is what every Chosen One story boils down to.

That's a simple example obviously - if you want to get deep into this I can write you a 10 page analysis of why multiple viewpoints make stories better. But you have to promise to read it all.
So basicly you want to roleplay two (or four) different characters at the same time? That would be impressive.
 

Zombra

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So basicly you want to roleplay two (or four) different characters at the same time? That would be impressive.
Yes, that is exactly the point. I already do this as much as possible in every party-based RPG I play, but DOS2 is the first one that promised to have robust mechanics that supported this style. Then they said, nah we took that out for dumb reasons.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
The sequel to the most successful oldschool RPG is a "dark horse"? Why so provincial, Gamepressure? http://www.gamepressure.com/e.asp?ID=999

Divinity: Original Sin II hands-on – what’s new in the sequel of one of the best recent RPGs?
Larian Studio has reminded the world about Divinity: Original Sin II by bringing the game to gamescom 2016. A half-hour presentation was enough to convince us that this could be the dark horse among 2017’s RPGs.

If you asked someone what’s the hottest old-school RPG currently in development, you would probably hear names like Torment: Tides of Numenera by inXile Entertainment, or Tyranny by Obsidian. Due to the avalanche of information published about these games in recent moths, it wasn’t hard to forget that there’s one more that’s going to bring something into the world of classic cRPGs – it’s Divinity: Original Sin II by Larian Studios.About a year ago we were all impressed with the enormous success of the game’s Kickstarter campaign (the devs asked for USD 500,000 and received four times the amount), but then, the game went quiet… until now. Divinity: Original Sin II has been shown during gamescom 2016.After watching the new game set in the world of Rivellon for half an hour, all we can say is:Torment, beware!

2677679.jpg

One can be more than two
The showcase started with the basics, i.e. the creation of our character. Note the singular, not plural, as this time around we have only one protagonist. This doesn’t mean that the whole process takes half the time it took in the previous game – there are a lot of new options available. Apart from the typical elements, such as sex, class, skills, talents, attributes, and so on, we will, first and foremost, choose the race of our hero. We can chose either human, dwarf, elf, or lizardman. In time, there will be one more race available – the undead, which was one of additional goals of the Kickstarter campaign. Needless to say, the choice will not be purely cosmetic; each race has an individual set of skills, and will be differently perceived by NPCs. The latter fact is noteworthy, because, as Larian studio emphasize on every occasion, dynamic relations between the players and the game world are very important for them.

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Those relations will be influenced, perhaps the most, by the origin story that we can choose for our hero from a set of 8 to 10. What is actually meant by this term is that the characters are predefined, and can only be slightly modified. The players aren’t obliged to choose any of the available origin stories, but if they decide to do so, they will receive a character with a unique storyline, which will intertwine with the main plot during the whole game, and influence the shape of the adventure in numerous ways (for example by unlocking unique dialogue options). This is especially important in the multiplayer (where four people can play in one game), as the players can have mutually exclusive agendas. That’s why he multiplayer in Divinity: Original Sin II shouldn’t really be called a co-op; after all, the players might just as well stand against each other. What’s even cooler is the fact that solo players will be able to get a taste of this mechanic as well. All the origin stories that the player doesn’t choose will be used by the game to create NPCs that we’ll encounter during the campaign, and who can become AI-controlled party members. And they won’t be just standing there and waiting for our attention for ever – should the player decide not to include them in his or her team, they will venture into the world by themselves, and appear from time to time in different places, at different stages of the story, showing different attitudes towards our hero.

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Fortunately, all this doesn’t mean that you must choose a predefined character in order to have fun in the game. The bonuses, such as unique dialogue options, are also provided by so-called tags – those are traits that define factors such as origin, personality, or the place in society (nobleman, sage, outcast, and trickster). At the beginning they are determined by the choice of class, sex, origin story, etc., but later on, subsequent tags can be added or lost – for example by making certain choices in dialogues or during quests. The bottom line: if all this really works, the fans of role-playing are in for quite a treat.

To sum up the subject of characters, let’s take a closer look at a really cool tidbit – Larian Studios has developed something they call an “adaptive music system”. Thanks to this, each protagonist will have their own theme, played, for instance, when a spectacular critical hit is dealt, or the plot takes an especially important turn. It’s seemingly just a little something, but looks really fun, especially in the multiplayer mode.

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Good old hardcore
After getting through the process of creating our character, the developers went for the gameplay itself, and showed us the very beginning of the game. Just as in the first Original Sin, everything begins on a beach, but this time, the circumstances are completely different – while previously we’ve hunted the bearers of the destructive power of the Source, this time we’ll become one of them. Besides, the stories of both games are separated by a thousand years; here, the plot unfolds during dark times where the Divine is dead, and the world is under attack by horrific creatures from the Void (some years after Beyond Divinity). In this world, the Divine Order fights to avert the crisis by eliminating everyone who knows how to control the power of the Source – they are sent to a prison island, a place called Fort Joy, where their power is taken away. We meet the protagonist when they are on their way to meet such a fate themselves, but their ship is sunk by the monsters from the Void. The players then find themselves on said beach, and have to look for a way out from Fort Joy… and under the Order’s skin, while simultaneously saving the world.

Players will be able to see for themselves how hard it is to control the power of the Source. On September 15, Divinity: Original Sin II will become available in Early Access. The devs will let the players try out the first 8–10 hours of the game – the escape from Fort Joy. It may not seem like much, but even the early build of this game should provide a nice dose of replayability, since it will offer four different origin stories (more should be added later).

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As for the gameplay mechanics, the general idea remains identical as in Divinity: Original Sin. This is still an RPG with isometric perspective (although the camera can rotate and zoom), which offers a lot of freedom in manipulating the environment and a high level of difficulty – both during the turn-based combat as well as in the case of environmental puzzles. “I’m going to show the game in Classic Mode, because if I chose Hardcore Mode, you would only watch me load the game again and again”, said one of the developers before the showcase; these words ought to give you an idea of what this game is. This doesn’t mean, however, that Larian didn’t lift a finger to make the game a little bit more accessible to less experienced users. A more user-friendly interface was added, along with a clearer location design. The number of action points has also been reduced to make it easier to strategize during combat (subsequent actions will cost no more than three points).

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There are plenty new features that the veterans will appreciate. The tactical layer has been deepened with a height factor – going up a ladder (another novelty) and getting you character onto a tower will increase their range and the power of ranged attacks, as well as make them harder to hit. The tactical depth is further improved by a plethora of previously unavailable curses and blessings, such as Bloody Rain, which causes bleeding to enemies within the given area. Using Contamination after Bloody Rain on the same area will produce a very dangerous acid. An icing on the cake is provided by the mighty powers of the Source. The crafting system has also been overhauled.

Larian Studio definitely pays a lot attention to the combat system. There will also be a totally new multiplayer game mode – a pure PvP arena. Four-player groups will be able to compete on cleverly designed battlefields, fighting in iterations of classic modes such as Free-For-All, Capture the Flag, or King of the Hill. The players will use predetermined characters, and matches will last as long as 20 minutes.

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We also have to mention the graphics (generated by Divinity Engine 3.0). Visually, the game is a whole lot better than the previous part. The textures are sharp, and water effects eye-catching. Physics are also pretty realistic.

There is some innovation in terms of the plot, too. Most of all, the number of possible interactions has been increased. For example, players will be able to talk with spirits, and elves will gather knowledge by... consuming other characters’ limbs. Talking with animals, known from Divinity: Original Sin, will also be there. Probably nothing will stop the players from killing every encountered NPC if they wish to, without making the quests impossible to finish (including those that are part of the main arc). If you add up the tag and origins system, then it seems there’s a lot more freedom in completing the missions than before. Let’s just say that there are 11 different possibilities to escape from Fort Joy.Furthermore, the AI algorithms have been revamped – they are supposed to provide more realistic reactions of the game to the player’s actions; especially interesting is a three-level scale, which represents the leniency of the guards in a given area to “odd” actions of the player.

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To wrap this all up: Larian Studios haven’t revealed too many ground-breaking features of the game during their presentation – much of the things that we’ve seen had already been announced during the Kickstarter campaign. What the gamescom presentation has managed to prove is that all the developers’ promises were not empty. It’s true that even with the first Divinity: Original Sin Larian has shown that they know how to make a classic RPG, but still, it was very reassuring to see that the devs haven’t lost any of their knack for this genre during the past two years – quite the contrary; it actually looks like they’re just getting started. Who knows, maybe it’s all caused by the beneficial presence of Chris Avellone on the team? One way or another, everything seems to suggest that in the near future we will see a release of one more role-play designed for true veterans. Truth be told, we’re not actually sure whether the game will actually be released in 2017, but we’ll get a taste of it in a month when Divinity: Original Sin II lands in Early Access. It should be a good opportunity to play something interesting before the upcoming invasion of triple As in the fall.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Swen says the game's development team is 113 people. "Three times as much as the first Original Sin"

He says the console version of D:OS EE did quite well, better than he expected. The proportion of console sales is 40-50% of PC.

Cowboy Moment I guess that settles it.
 
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