Dishonored by Arkane

[Excidium]

The QTE prompt.

 

[Zewp]

They dried up in the middle a bit maybe for the whorehouse and party but they came back in the later levels. The flooded city section is one of the most open in the whole game.

Also even though Thief is pretty open I would still say your path is mostly linear, moving from one objective to the next. They're both wide corridor games it's just Thief's are a little wider.

Yes, but Thief's missions often allowed you to tackle multiple objectives in any order you wished and the locations of objectives were never clear, so progression was never necessarily linear. You also usually had to explore the entire level just to finish your objective, while exploration in Dishonored is mostly done for additional content such as secrets and whale bones.

Dishonored's progression was usually linear because you had to finish one objective to unlock the next and often the paths you could take were literally slim paths with little to no place else to go but forward.

 

[DalekFlay]

Yes, but Thief's missions often allowed you to tackle multiple objectives in any order you wished and the locations of objectives were never clear, so progression was never necessarily linear. You also usually had to explore the entire level just to finish your objective, while exploration in Dishonored is mostly done for additional content such as secrets and whale bones.

Dishonored's progression was usually linear because you had to finish one objective to unlock the next and often the paths you could take were literally slim paths with little to no place else to go but forward.

I think you're exaggerating its linearity but I'm sure it's at least somewhat subjective. I'm not arguing Thief isn't less so, of course it is, only that Dishonored is better than you give it credit for.

 

[DraQ]

The biggest problem with Dishonored is the obscene amount of power the player gets at their fingertips. It isn't really a challenge when five runes in (High Overseer Campbell) you get the ability to see through walls, highlighting goodies, enemies, and their vision cones. It only gets more ridiculous with teleportation and bullet time.

I think the problem isn't with power - I like playing with and abusing such toys - but with the fact that the challenge isn't scaled up to the powers you have.
If you give player power to break the fuck out of your game then you should design game that is challenging to break and impossible to beat in fair manner.

Also, dark visions should be toned down - I'd make level 1 highlight unoccluded living beings only (but at unlimited range), and level 2 highlight them also through walls at limited range, plus add sight cones (like lvl1 dark vision). No highlighting pickups (because I'm spending more time in NV mode than normally and re-casting it all the time), though security systems and other usable scenery might be considered.

I would also restrict blinking somehow. I don't mind it regenerating mana, especially since it's crucial for moving around, but making it require full bar and deplete it to 0 until it refills would be a good limiter.

Possession should be boosted somewhat, at least with animals. Possessing a rat means you forfeit situational awareness and advantage you get by blinking across the rooftops, risk getting caught with your pants down when you exit vent or when possession wears off in inopportune moment (add some wearing off indicator) AND waste shitload of mana.
WTF.

The story is neat, though predictable plot twists are predictable. Wish they played with that a bit and set up Daud as the end game villain, rather than Havelock.

Spoilers, motherfucker, can you use them?

As a side note, the morality/Chaos system is completely fucked up. It appears that mutilating people and dooming them to years of suffering (Campbell and the Pendelton Twins) or to an unavoidable execution (Burrows) is somehow more righteous than killing them cleanly on the spot. Seriously?

I thought the developers' decision was to abstain from any explicit morality system so Chaos system is more of a stability measure than one of morality.

It doesn't care about whether, say, Campbell will be fucked up more than if you just outright waltzed into the meeting room and shot his face, but high overseer having his head noisily blown off by some fuck in a mask in his own meeting room is more disruptive and will generate more repercussions than leaving him unconscious with "official" brand on his face, with no one seeing or hearing you come and go.
Same with individual guards, I often probe them with the heart and pop them if I find them too repulsive, but while popping a psychopathic bastards who kill, steal, rape and otherwise abuse power for personal gain is definitely not immoral action (if only because it means less people dead raped, or left without means to live in the end), having a person disappeared completely or finding their head stuck to the wall with crossbow bolt is probably going to be more disruptive than at most them turning up mysteriously passed out in a dumpster.

Of course, chaos and morality often overlap, for example with wanton slaughter, but often they don't.

And with brand I found the irony too delicious to pass it up.


Also, Campbell is a

Spoiler

paedophile

.

Fuck this loser.

 

[Tagaziel]

I think the problem isn't with power - I like playing with and abusing such toys - but with the fact that the challenge isn't scaled up to the powers you have.
If you give player power to break the fuck out of your game then you should design game that is challenging to break and impossible to beat in fair manner.

Also, dark visions should be toned down - I'd make level 1 highlight unoccluded living beings only (but at unlimited range), and level 2 highlight them also through walls at limited range, plus add sight cones (like lvl1 dark vision). No highlighting pickups (because I'm spending more time in NV mode than normally and re-casting it all the time), though security systems and other usable scenery might be considered.

I would also restrict blinking somehow. I don't mind it regenerating mana, especially since it's crucial for moving around, but making it require full bar and deplete it to 0 until it refills would be a good limiter.

Overpowered abilities significantly impact challenge. The DV is really the core of the problem, as it gives you constant perfect spatial awareness. It essentially turns the game into a first person MGS. Toning them down (i.e. removing Blink, Pause Button, nerfing DV) would go a long way towards improving the balance.

Spoilers, motherfucker, can you use them?

Oh shi---

Sorry for that.

I thought the developers' decision was to abstain from any explicit morality system so Chaos system is more of a stability measure than one of morality.

It doesn't care about whether, say, Campbell will be fucked up more than if you just outright waltzed into the meeting room and shot his face, but high overseer having his head noisily blown off by some fuck in a mask in his own meeting room is more disruptive and will generate more repercussions than leaving him unconscious with "official" brand on his face, with no one seeing or hearing you come and go.

Same with individual guards, I often probe them with the heart and pop them if I find them too repulsive, but while popping a psychopathic bastards who kill, steal, rape and otherwise abuse power for personal gain is definitely not immoral action (if only because it means less people dead raped, or left without means to live in the end), having a person disappeared completely or finding their head stuck to the wall with crossbow bolt is probably going to be more disruptive than at most them turning up mysteriously passed out in a dumpster.

I've played through Dishonored knocking out everyone in my path, that is fine and I understand how that encourages stability. My problem is that non-lethal solutions are often far more terrifying and disruptive, than lethal ones. Take Campbell's one: which is more disruptive, him being killed cleanly, or him mysteriously turning up branded as a heretic? The former is a typical political assassination that's easy to swallow without hitting the foundations. The latter, to both the common folk and the Overseers, would appear as a sudden, almost divine intervention against the highest religious office in the Empire. Kind of like the Pope suddenly being found marked in a way suggesting the Inquisition's work.

The concept of stability is fine generally, but some instances, such as the high profile killings, leave me scratching my head.

Of course, chaos and morality often overlap, for example with wanton slaughter, but often they don't.

And with brand I found the irony too delicious to pass it up.


Also, Campbell is a

Spoiler

paedophile

.

Fuck this loser.

I kick myself I didn't brand the fucker. I just swapped the glasses and dumped the Watch boss in a dumpster. That's gonna be one hell of a hangover.

 

[Tommy Wiseau]

He's not really a pedophile, though I did get the same impression when I first played that mission.

 

[DraQ]

I think the problem isn't with power - I like playing with and abusing such toys - but with the fact that the challenge isn't scaled up to the powers you have.
If you give player power to break the fuck out of your game then you should design game that is challenging to break and impossible to beat in fair manner.

Also, dark visions should be toned down - I'd make level 1 highlight unoccluded living beings only (but at unlimited range), and level 2 highlight them also through walls at limited range, plus add sight cones (like lvl1 dark vision). No highlighting pickups (because I'm spending more time in NV mode than normally and re-casting it all the time), though security systems and other usable scenery might be considered.

I would also restrict blinking somehow. I don't mind it regenerating mana, especially since it's crucial for moving around, but making it require full bar and deplete it to 0 until it refills would be a good limiter.

Overpowered abilities significantly impact challenge. The DV is really the core of the problem, as it gives you constant perfect spatial awareness. It essentially turns the game into a first person MGS. Toning them down (i.e. removing Blink, Pause Button, nerfing DV) would go a long way towards improving the balance.

There is no such thing as ability being overpowered out of context.

Abilities or items can only be overpowered or underpowered relative to the challenge.
Is AK-47 an overpowered weapon? Depends. If the opposition is wielding primitive matchlocks and fights in formations - then it's probably OP as fuck. If the opposition uses modern ARs and modern combat tactics - not really.

The problem with Dishonored is that AI is ripe pickings. NPCs have poor peripheral vision, poor sight range, don't react adequately to missing patrols, and can't search worth fuck.

With tight patrols watching each other backs, missing guards triggering alarms and search parties and so on, Dishonored would feel more balanced.

Also, enemy pistols should be effectively instakill.

My main problem with blink is that it's almost used more than walking and also that it leaves other abilities, like possession, almost unused.
Alternatively blink could be replaced by additional jumping/sliding mechanics, allowing you to aim where you want to land or climb, because I feel one of the purposes of blink was reducing stupid deaths from awkward FPP platforming with very small platforms (like streetlamps).

My main problem with DV is that it's spammed and kept on almost constantly once it's lvl II.
It isn't good gameplay and diminishes proper exploration.

Maybe Dishonored would benefit from casting from HPs instead of separate mana pool.

Oh shi---

Sorry for that.

Well, it's not that I haven't expected to take out Daud at some point - with mysterious assassins outfits and combat styles matching Daud's wanted posters, purported occult abilities and being consistent with that mask found on one of Daud's men by inquisition.

As for Havelock, he never appeared particularly trustworthy to me, especially after heartprobing him.
He seems ambitious and not particularly bothered by having to wade knee deep in corpses to reach his goals.

Take Campbell's one: which is more disruptive, him being killed cleanly, or him mysteriously turning up branded as a heretic? The former is a typical political assassination that's easy to swallow without hitting the foundations. The latter, to both the common folk and the Overseers, would appear as a sudden, almost divine intervention against the highest religious office in the Empire. Kind of like the Pope suddenly being found marked in a way suggesting the Inquisition's work.

Then again, there seems to be some fracturing in the Abbey, and just cutting through the security then popping the pope would probably spook his allies much more. Bonus points if someone in the abbey decided to occupy the convenient power vacuum, put on their trollface and legitimize their rise to power by making the branding 'official'.

It's admittedly a weak point, but it could work.

He's not really a pedophile

Really? Because it's hard to interpret rejoicing over getting to "inspect the facilities" (note the quotes) of an underage girl in any other way.

It wouldn't particularly pain me to murder the fuck, but it would be too fast and too good for him.

 

[Castanova]

I don't think it's a huge problem that you have overpowered abilities versus idiot enemies. Obviously the enemies could be smarter but that's a minor thing compared to the real issue which I mentioned earlier -- none of the missions themselves present any kind of challenge. The only obstacle in your way are the stupid enemies that you can kill/skip with ease. There are no puzzles but, just as importantly for a popamole AAA game, there aren't even the ILLUSION of puzzles. You're literally expected to swallow the idea that the final boss, who knows you're coming, is satisfied with standing around in his room and populating his wide-open facility with, like, 20 soldiers. As if you haven't shown a history of being able to get past X number of soliders... none of the missions make any logical sense. It's literally just a really mediocre stealth sandbox game with fairly linear levels and an un-integrated story.

 

[Tommy Wiseau]

IIRC he was actually referring to visiting that brothel on his way, or something like that.

 

[Raghar]

Didn't Washington have a 12-14 year old mistress?

 

[Gondolin]

Dishonored has been named Best Game at the 2013 British Academy of Film and Television Arts (Bafta) video games awards.

The first-person action title is set in a historic plague-ridden city in which the player uses special powers and swordplay to seek revenge on enemies.

Its developer Bethesda made a joke apology to Brits for the way it had spelt the game's name.
Journey - a PlayStation title lacking words and enemies - took five awards.

These included Online Multiplayer, Artistic Achievement, Game Design, Original Music and Audio Achievement.

It was created by Thatgamecompany - a seven-year-old studio founded by graduates from the University of Southern California. It involves travelling across a huge desert landscape and communicating with other players - connected via the internet - by making wordless musical chirps.

Other atypical titles also did well.

[...]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21677124#sa-ns_mchannel=rss&ns_source=PublicRSS20-sa

Bafta 2013 Games Awards

Best Game: Dishonored
Online Multiplayer: Journey
Game Design: Journey
Artistic Achievement: Journey
Original Music: Journey
Audio Achievement: Journey
Mobile & Handheld: The Walking Dead
Story: The Walking Dead
Game Innovation: The Unfinished Swan
Debut Game: The Unfinished Swan
Action: Far Cry 3
British Game: The Room
Performer: Danny Wallace - Thomas Was Alone
Family: Lego Batman 2
Strategy: Xcom - Enemy Unknown
Ones to Watch: Kind of a Big Deal - Starcrossed
Online Browser: SongPop
Sports/Fitness: New Star Soccer
Fellowship: Gabe Newell

 

[sea]

No Guild Wars 2 for best story?

 

[Gondolin]

Well, get a mod to move it, newsboy.

 

[AngryEddy]

Fuck Britain.

 

[Multiple Sarcasm]

video game awards

Wouldn't fap again.

 

[Gondolin]

Well, what did you expect? It's the industry, man.

 

[DalekFlay]

It's probably my 3D game of 2012. What the fuck else would it be?

 

[Konjad]

It's probably my 3D game of 2012. What the fuck else would it be?

You are a tool.

 

[DalekFlay]

You are a tool.

What's your big amazing and obvious alternate candidate then, tough guy?

 

[Kane]

No Guild Wars 2 for best story?

rofl

 

[Zeriel]

Well, at least XCOM won. That's partially understandable.

 

[Konjad]

You are a tool.

What's your big amazing and obvious alternate candidate then, tough guy?

For example CK2 or NS2.

 

[Berekän]

No Guild Wars 2 for best story?

Really?

 

[MetalCraze]

At least this time the storyfag award went to a proper candidate, not bullshit like Fallout 3.

 

[sea]

Really?

No. Maybe you don't get the reference, never mind it.

 

[Berekän]

Really?

No. Maybe you don't get the reference, never mind it.

Well, a quick explanation's never out of order

 

[Raghar]

JarlFrank Jaesun

What mod went full retard and unnecessary merged a thread about game awards with a thread about dishonored? It's fucking completely unrelated discussion. Remember there is a retarded event like Caan, and there is an actual movie that has been awarded in Caan.

Also we had a discussion about pedophilia of high ranking government officials here.