Incline Disco Elysium - The Final Cut - a hardboiled cop show isometric RPG

[Terenty]

The quality of writing is of such a high level that it really felt like an interactive novel.

Not some shitty Visual Novel, or choose your own adventure type game, but actually an evolution of literature, where you could interact with a novel, while reading it. That's how I felt playing it at least.

read better books kid

You know, I recently finished reading Gormenghast duology (third book doesn't count), hope it's good enough for you.

Thing is it doesn't take anything away from DE's quality of writing.

 

[Maxie]

The quality of writing is of such a high level that it really felt like an interactive novel.

Not some shitty Visual Novel, or choose your own adventure type game, but actually an evolution of literature, where you could interact with a novel, while reading it. That's how I felt playing it at least.

read better books kid

Could you give some examples? Genuine question, I'd like some top tier reading material

ziemia obiecana

 

[Maxie]

Imagine playing Disco Elysium and still thinking its a detective story first and foremost, although I'm not surprised everything about the game flew over your head.

Your character's reason for being there - solving a case. The game ends when you solve the case.

Disco does drop the ball a bit on the detective mystery by the end but by then while solving the case is the hook that keeps you going through the game, it's clearly not what the story is actually about. It's a lot more about Harry as a person and Revachol as a living breathing place than it is about who killed the hanged man. By the end of the game you shouldn't be thinking "this is the guy who did it", you should be thinking "this is a literal mirror picture of Harry if we just set the clock a few years forward"

yeah because some dumbass drunk who has fucked himself up so bad he can't recall anything is such an inspiring character and the fact that his barely functioning brain is so malleable you pick up 'ideologies' from nodding as random NPCs rant at you is peak writing

 

[JarlFrank]

he's literally me

 

[Maxie]

Eh, you guys focus too much on writing. I mean, I get it. It is amazing, it is funny and encourages you to see more of it. But to me what made Disco Elysium great is the same thing that made Troika games great: character building. Depending on what stats you go for you will have a different experience (not on the Critical Path™, obviously, but exactly the same thing can be said about any other narrative-driven RPGs). I just can't overstate how important is the removal of any out-of-character information via stats is and how it's tied to the reactivity. To me this is the epitome of being an RPG.

this is factually wrong
nothing changes in the game apart from flavour text

 

[Darkwind]

The quality of writing is of such a high level that it really felt like an interactive novel.

Not some shitty Visual Novel, or choose your own adventure type game, but actually an evolution of literature, where you could interact with a novel, while reading it. That's how I felt playing it at least.

I can see why someone would think this, TBH. The bar for video game narrative & writing is so very very low especially in 2024. At one time when the genre was newer, it still at least went through the motions of trying to compete with classic media (read: books & novels) but like everything else it had to be adapted for the lowest common denominator.

So shit tier writing is the norm. Hence, when something even remotely different and that isn't garbage comes along it seems 'more than' so I get that. When you factor in the interactivity of it, that elevates it even more in a way that a much more well written story cannot compete with because a novel will always be linear and unchanging. But as others have pointed out, a lot of it is smoke & mirrors. Not -really- changing anything significant, whereas even in some other better RPGs there are -profound- differences in how the story plays out depending on your choices.

I think Owlcat tries to hit this bar too but they mistake wordiness for having something profound to say. You can tell a compelling story without massive block paragraphs of exposition / info dumps. I think DE is better in this regard.

 

[Tyranicon]

IMO, Disco's writing has beautiful prose, but it takes fucking ages to get anywhere.

It's like the writers are great at what they do, but then they realized they were getting paid by the word or something.

It's exhausting.

 

[luj1]

If you like the writing, it's great, 10/10 GOTY GOTD GOTC whatever.
If you don't (like me), there aren't enough things there to make it enjoyable. The story is meh, the gameplay is there simply to feed you more writing, the art style is ok, but I would never gush over it like PrimeJunta did.

Agree with you, but I dont think even the writing is good

its classic purple-prose. Use 10 words when you can just use 3

But for them its understandable i guess, because the game doesnt have gameplay anyway (other than reading)

 

[KVVRR]

Imagine playing Disco Elysium and still thinking its a detective story first and foremost, although I'm not surprised everything about the game flew over your head.

Your character's reason for being there - solving a case. The game ends when you solve the case.

Disco does drop the ball a bit on the detective mystery by the end but by then while solving the case is the hook that keeps you going through the game, it's clearly not what the story is actually about. It's a lot more about Harry as a person and Revachol as a living breathing place than it is about who killed the hanged man. By the end of the game you shouldn't be thinking "this is the guy who did it", you should be thinking "this is a literal mirror picture of Harry if we just set the clock a few years forward"

yeah because some dumbass drunk who has fucked himself up so bad he can't recall anything is such an inspiring character and the fact that his barely functioning brain is so malleable you pick up 'ideologies' from nodding as random NPCs rant at you is peak writing

i don't know about you but people drinking themselves to oblivion and into a life long stupor because of a broken heart is really, really common. way more than it should be

 

[Maxie]

Imagine playing Disco Elysium and still thinking its a detective story first and foremost, although I'm not surprised everything about the game flew over your head.

Your character's reason for being there - solving a case. The game ends when you solve the case.

Disco does drop the ball a bit on the detective mystery by the end but by then while solving the case is the hook that keeps you going through the game, it's clearly not what the story is actually about. It's a lot more about Harry as a person and Revachol as a living breathing place than it is about who killed the hanged man. By the end of the game you shouldn't be thinking "this is the guy who did it", you should be thinking "this is a literal mirror picture of Harry if we just set the clock a few years forward"

yeah because some dumbass drunk who has fucked himself up so bad he can't recall anything is such an inspiring character and the fact that his barely functioning brain is so malleable you pick up 'ideologies' from nodding as random NPCs rant at you is peak writing

i don't know about you but people drinking themselves to oblivion and into a life long stupor because of a broken heart is really, really common. way more than it should be

keep those losers away from video game protagonist position

 

[Pocgels]

I did a shivers build and liked it

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

I did a shivers build and liked it

Shivers gives you the true experience of the city. Encyclopedia knows about Revachol because you read it somewhere. Shivers knows it because you've been here all of your life. It's like the urban version of Esprit de Corps. In every skill line you get one that gives you that extra bit of content that makes you fall in love with the game.

Disco is a wordy game but I feel everything said by the game matters. It's mostly free of the fluff that contaminates rpgs, and leaves you enough room to immerse yourself in its situations. And honestly, when you've walked the walk and met enough people in your life, you see that Disco's characters, in spite of them being cartoonish, do resemble real people. The anodic music kids remind me of my group of friends from college. I've work with kids, and I've met both Cuno and Cunoesse, and they are exactly like they are portrayed in the game. I've met guys like Harry. Hell, I've *been* Harry sometimes. I know guys like Kim too. Etc... Even the politics argument with the Deserter reminds me of my own discussions with my dad, a hardcore communist who did call me a filthy liberal because I was 1% less commie than him. And IMO, the game's mechanics add to the experience. The game is short enough and has enough content on it to reward multiple playthroughs.

The political side of it I felt was decently done because it's mostly a way for Harry to cope. You either end up directly accusing "wömen" of all the troubles of the world, or you claim that women are bourgeois.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

The quality of writing is of such a high level that it really felt like an interactive novel.

Not some shitty Visual Novel, or choose your own adventure type game, but actually an evolution of literature, where you could interact with a novel, while reading it. That's how I felt playing it at least.

read better books kid

You know, I recently finished reading Gormenghast duology (third book doesn't count), hope it's good enough for you.

Thing is it doesn't take anything away from DE's quality of writing.

Hmmmmm….. I’d love to see Gormenghast written up as a campaign and “megadungeon.” Oh yeah, that’d be sweet.

 

[Maxie]

Disco is a wordy game but I feel everything said by the game matters. It's mostly free of the fluff that contaminates rpgs, and leaves you enough room to immerse yourself in its situations.

Good job, you've written the dumbest fucking sentence of 2024, and it's barely halfway through January

 

[Terenty]

Disco's dialogue is engaging because it's a constant back and forth between Harry, his thoughts and npcs. You as a player is engaged all the time.

In other RPGs (we all know which ones) a typical conversation starts with an essay long description of everything related to the npc or the dialogue is constantly interrupted by extra descriptions so there's no flow at all.

It's hard even to call it a dialogue because most of the time npcs do all the talking, like huge walls of expository text and then you get a couple lines to pick in response and have to suffer another wall of text, repeat till the end.

 

[Maxie]

Disco's dialogue is engaging because it's a constant back and forth between Harry, his thoughts and npcs. You as a player is engaged all the time.

In other RPGs (we all know which ones) a typical conversation starts with an essay long description of everything related to the npc or the dialogue is constantly interrupted by extra descriptions so there's no flow at all.

It's hard even to call it a dialogue because most of the time npcs do all the talking, like huge walls of expository text and then you get a couple lines to pick in response and have to suffer another wall of text, repeat till the end.

factually wrong
there's less back and forth than you recall and far more harry nodding at someone's exposition dumps
were it an actual game, you'd be hunting for clues in that, yknow... like in a detective game

 

[Maxie]

Lord_Potato i see you disagree with me for whatever reason
in an ideal world, you'd be manually pressing witnesses over shit you have in your notes, like in la noire or something
in disco it's contextual and if you miss one of X chances to do that, you simply won't do that
not that said info affects anything since the game always plays out the same

 

[toro]

I don't understand the praise for DE.

At this point is just a meme game used by complete cretins to claim some sort of intellectual superiority over their peers.

 

[Lord_Potato]

Lord_Potato i see you disagree with me for whatever reason
in an ideal world, you'd be manually pressing witnesses over shit you have in your notes, like in la noire or something
in disco it's contextual and if you miss one of X chances to do that, you simply won't do that
not that said info affects anything since the game always plays out the same

Harry doesn't work that way. Especially after his amnesiac event.

Sure, I'd like if DE had a bit more detective work (there is some), perhaps some side investigations even, but it's one of those stories where the journey is more important than the final destination. And the solution of the crime puzzle is less a result of dilligent investigation and more as a reward for dealing with Harry's inner demons.

In Disco Elysium your job is to solve the mystery of Harry DuBois. The criminal case is just the background.

 

[Maxie]

Lord_Potato i see you disagree with me for whatever reason
in an ideal world, you'd be manually pressing witnesses over shit you have in your notes, like in la noire or something
in disco it's contextual and if you miss one of X chances to do that, you simply won't do that
not that said info affects anything since the game always plays out the same

Harry doesn't work that way. Especially after his amnesiac event.

Sure, I'd like if DE had a bit more detective work (there is some), perhaps some side investigations even, but it's one of those stories where the journey is more important than the final destination. And the solution of the crime puzzle is less a result of dilligent investigation and more as a reward for dealing with Harry's inner demons.

In Disco Elysium your job is to solve the mystery of Harry DuBois. The criminal case is just the background.

if we accept your take then the game itself is a demoralizing exercise in purple prose and works to directly undermine the genre, rather than being just a bad game

 

[Terenty]

were it an actual game, you'd be hunting for clues in that, yknow... like in a detective game

Ok, I agree marketing before the release was kinda misleading and promised a more complex, detective rpg rather than a narrative game about MCs inner demons and turmoil. Even a steam description paints a different game.

But.. you do get to see different content (even if it's just flavour text in many cases) depending on your skills and without save scumming.

 

[Maxie]

were it an actual game, you'd be hunting for clues in that, yknow... like in a detective game

Ok, I agree marketing before the release was kinda misleading and promised a more complex, detective rpg rather than a narrative game about MCs inner demons and turmoil. Even a steam description paints a different game.

But.. you do get to see different content (even if it's just flavour text in many cases) depending on your skills and without save scumming.

not the sort of thing I would like to see under General RPG Discussion on RPG Codex dot net

 

[toro]

In Disco Elysium your job is to solve the mystery of Harry DuBois. The criminal case is just the background.

 

[Grunker]

do you guys also think alice in wonderland is about a girl falling down a hole

 

[Maxie]

do you guys also think alice in wonderland is about a girl falling down a hole

i don't think about alice in wonderland at all, as it's not a video game.