Incline Disco Elysium - The Final Cut - a hardboiled cop show isometric RPG

[Delterius]

I don't like full-voice over in games anyway, so I would have preferred if resources were expended on things like better C&C, but I recognize that I'm very much in the minority there compared to a general audience. Regardless, I'm glad the game has done so well. I don't really care if it was an RPG or not, it has some of the best writing the medium has seen in a long time.

Full voice-over has its advantages when dealing with dialogue since it forces the developers to make conversations sound like actual speech between two human beings, instead of walking information and quips dispensers. That being said, ZA/UM claims that the game was always written with voice-over in mind, so we'll see.

If that was true then bad movies would not exist.

 

[Latro]

As a fun fact, the older gent in the video is Kurvitz senior who also happens to have been voted Coolest Man In Estonia several years in a row.

Nepotism runs deep eh

 

[Testownia]

Of all possible merch clothes they've chose this?

Still no Hideous Necktie.

 

[Testownia]

By the way, why in the bloody Hell there isn't a PC version of the "Collector's Edition"? For once I'd like a nice, aesthetically pleasing physical copy of the game, and I can't have it?

 

[Vormulak]

Don't tell me that you, people, play it because of deep RPG mechanics, profound C&C and enthralling exploration. You play it because of the writing. DE sans RPG elements would still be a success, but DE sans ZA/UM writing would be a failure

I mean, okay. I don't know if anyone claims otherwise. Knights of the Old Republic 2 minus the writing would be absolute garbage, but it's a favorite on here nonetheless.

kotor 2 is absolute garbage with the writing.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

http://atelier.zaumstudio.com

The right outfit, in the right situation, can make all the difference in the world. ZA/UM presents an original range of sweet and stylish bodywear. Based on designs seen in the smash-hit role-playing game Disco Elysium - this is fiction made fabric.

All garments are designed by ZA/UM and made in Estonia by a single seamstress to ensure the highest quality.

All clothing items are limited edition. Only 15 of each jacket and seven cloaks are available as part of this first batch. If the items prove popular we will make more batches available in the future.

Get yours now.

Missing the clothes that people actually want to purchase:

 

[Testownia]

Don't tell me that you, people, play it because of deep RPG mechanics, profound C&C and enthralling exploration. You play it because of the writing. DE sans RPG elements would still be a success, but DE sans ZA/UM writing would be a failure

I mean, okay. I don't know if anyone claims otherwise. Knights of the Old Republic 2 minus the writing would be absolute garbage, but it's a favorite on here nonetheless.

kotor 2 is absolute garbage with the writing.

Boy, truly, go back to 4chan. All your takes are shit; you write as if you've never left the board, and it's obvious you're just regurgitating phrases and opinions from /v/ and /pol/. Stick to them, kiddo.

 

[Butter]

Nah, KotOR 2 is legit terrible. Nobody even tries to defend its gameplay, and the average defense of its story is "Isn't it so cool how they subverted the Star Wars lore!" If Rian Johnson's name were attached instead of Chris Avellone's, no one would stick up for the game.

 

[Harthwain]

Nah, KotOR 2 is legit terrible. Nobody even tries to defend its gameplay, and the average defense of its story is "Isn't it so cool how they subverted the Star Wars lore!" If Rian Johnson's name were attached instead of Chris Avellone's, no one would stick up for the game.

You are mistaken if you think his name is the only thing that made people like KotOR 2's story. The story stands on its own merits. Just look at KotOR 1 - it hinges purely on the player being the infamous Revan and there is nothing else to it. In KotOR 2 not only the story is deeper than "Dark Side vs Light Side and a weapon of mass destruction", it also more nuanced when it comes to character's involvement (both those who are in your party and those who are NPCs). And consider that KotOR 2's story was still incomplete, so it could've been even better if given enough time.

 

[Larianshill]

"It's still incomplete" seems to be a common excuse for all Obsidian games, from KOTOR2 to New Vegas to Tyranny. KOTOR2 does have its good moments, but even with the restoration patch it's a disjointed mess, and the game loves lecturing you with Kreia way too much to not remind me of Ulysses.

 

[Butter]

I don't want to defend KotOR 1 too emphatically, because it's no better than decent, but it's at least coherent and competently structured. Light side vs Dark side was always an adequate setup for a Star Wars story, and going from planet to planet in search of maguffins made sense in the context of the adventure. In KotOR 2 you go planet-hopping to ask Jedi masters why they did something that they didn't actually do, and when you find them they don't tell you anything helpful, and then even though they all split up to hide from the Sith, you can convince them to get the band back together, which results in them immediately being killed by a Sith lord.

 

[Red Hexapus]

Missing the clothes that people actually want to purchase:

Where is the PISSF****T Leather Jacket though?

 

[HoboForEternity]

where is "fuck the world" jacket you cowards

 

[Vormulak]

I don't want to defend KotOR 1 too emphatically, because it's no better than decent, but it's at least coherent and competently structured. Light side vs Dark side was always an adequate setup for a Star Wars story, and going from planet to planet in search of maguffins made sense in the context of the adventure. In KotOR 2 you go planet-hopping to ask Jedi masters why they did something that they didn't actually do, and when you find them they don't tell you anything helpful, and then even though they all split up to hide from the Sith, you can convince them to get the band back together, which results in them immediately being killed by a Sith lord.

My thoughts exactly and the only really morally gray situation in kotor 2 completely subverted my expectations, I expected to be able to side with general Vaklu and still stay on the good side of the jedi masters, obviously no such luck. You're not even allowed to make an attempt to justify your actions even though Vaklu admits he isn't truly loyal to the sith and fully intends to remove them from the planet., so if you want to go light side path you're forced to support a weak and immature queen. The only time the game really got me thinking I might have a bit of leeway and its all a another episode of forced light side vs dark side without any more thought put into it and people still have the gall to call this game deep and kotor 1 shallow.

 

[Larianshill]

It's honestly baffling how KOTOR2 tries to deconstruct morality and suggest some sort of grey path, but doesn't quite manage to make the leap into the actual gameplay. Vaklu is a good example - he's a more or less morally grey choice. But by picking it, you have to fight master Kavarr, and then the entire jedi council - and then Kreia shows up, giving you her "You have failed me, completely and utterly" speech, as if you did nothing in the whole game but eat puppies.
Another example I love to quote is the beggar on Nar Shaddaa. Everyone here probably remembers it very well - you have a choice of either giving a beggar some money, or be pointlessly cruel to him. Whatever you end up doing, it backfires, and Kreia (yet again) gives you a lecture on thinking about consequences. At no point of the conversation (more of a monologue) that follows, the game gives you an opportunity to make an argument against her. "The beggar being beaten up for his lunch money is only one of possible consequences, wouldn't my act of kindness inspire even more acts of kindness also fit your philosophy about echoes, and isn't it just as likely to happen, if not more so?" would be a good argument. But you don't get to say it, because Kreia is there so Avellone can lecture you, not so you can debate him.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

suggest some sort of grey path

Kreia (and the game by extension) doesn't suggest a grey path for the PC. Apathy is death, but this apathy can manifest itself both as a rejection of commitment to either side of the Force or as a passive embrace of one or the other in which the PC embodies a caricature of the chosen side (as both the Jedi and the Sith portrayed in the game have done).

Vaklu is a good example - he's a more or less morally grey choice. But by picking it, you have to fight master Kavarr, and then the entire jedi council - and then Kreia shows up, giving you her "You have failed me, completely and utterly" speech

This is not a failure of gameplay and story integration. Precisely because Vaklu is not a Force user committed to one side or the other of the Force (albeit geopolitically aligned against the Republic and thus being a 'dark side' option), your choice to side with him despite knowing that it will lead to a confrontation with Kavarr means that you've discarded Kreia's guidance (which seeks to bring the Jedi Masters together for that final confrontation) in favor of a petty moralism that goes against your self-interest as Kreia sees it.

Whatever you end up doing, it backfires, and Kreia (yet again) gives you a lecture on thinking about consequences. At no point of the conversation (more of a monologue) that follows, the game gives you an opportunity to make an argument against her.

Which is a case of gameplay and story integration. The game forces you to make a decision which is either light or dark side and Kreia in turn condemns the PC for letting himself be 'possessed' by his respective side (as is the case with all conventional Force users within traditional Star Wars) which in turn leads to her explaining how one should not be conditioned by the Force in his actions - he should instead instrumentalize the Force towards his own ends by being aware of how his actions condition the Force through the resulting echoes instead. Precisely because the PC is a conventional Force user who has not transcended the limitations of a conventional (non-reflexive) way of thinking vis-a-vis his commitment to one side of the Force, it makes no sense for him to be given the option to rebuke Kreia since you are oblivious to this style of thinking which she wants you to embrace (and which, to her disappointment, you can also reject throughout the game in favor of remaining a caricature molded by the Force).

 

[Infinitron]

https://gamingbolt.com/disco-elysium-the-final-cut-interview-new-content-story-additions-and-more

Disco Elysium – The Final Cut Interview – New Content, Story Additions, and More
Disco Elysium lead writer Helen Hindpere speaks with GamingBolt about the acclaimed RPG’s upcoming extended cut.

In late 2019, a little game called Disco Elysium came out of nowhere and took everyone by surprise. The CRPG genre has had a lot of all-time greats over the years, but Disco Elysium was not your typical CRPG. Eschewing a traditional focus on combat, and zeroing in instead on player choice, rich world-building, unique investigation mechanics, and a deep dive into the psyches of its excellently written characters, all on top of a story that was full of though-provoking narrative conceits and questions, Disco Elysium was a game that took the games industry by storm, immediately raking in critical and commercial success to reflect just how good it was.

Developer ZA/UM, however, clearly isn’t done with its modern masterpiece just yet. Soon, a definitive, extended version of the RPG, titled Disco Elysium – The Final Cut, will be releasing, with the game itself also ready to make its awaited debut on consoles, and will be expanding upon everything that made the base release so good with additional content and improvements to what was already there.

To learn more about The Final Cut and how it improves on an already great game, we recently reached out to ZA/UM with a few questions. You can read our conversation with lead writer Helen Hindpere below.



"The thing about video game development is that games never really feel completely ‘finished’, there is always so much more that could be added or improved on. I’d say that a lot of what we’re adding with The Final Cut – full VO, four mutually exclusive quests, extra animations – seemed like ambitious luxuries at the time of the release. We couldn’t be more excited that now a little more than a year later and with over one million copies sold these luxuries are going to be part of the game."

You’ve said recently that Disco Elysium – The Final Cut is the version of the game you originally wanted to release. Given that, can we assume that it was always the plan to come out with this extended cut sort of experience of the game, or is it something that only came about following the game’s widespread success?

Yes, so the thing about video game development is that games never really feel completely ‘finished’, there is always so much more that could be added or improved on. I’d say that a lot of what we’re adding with The Final Cut – full VO, four mutually exclusive quests, extra animations – seemed like ambitious luxuries at the time of the release. We couldn’t be more excited that now a little more than a year later and with over one million copies sold these luxuries are going to be part of the game. They have changed the way it feels to play Disco Elysium so much that now they really feel essential – I couldn’t imagine sitting down with a controller and opting out of the VO for example, it’s just too fun to hear your skills argue with each other out loud.

But we’ve also listened to the feedback we’ve gotten and this has influenced some of the new content – the game will now be better balanced and offer even more reactivity with the new quests. The Final Cut is our way to say thank you to everyone who has supported us since the release.

Can you tell us about the circumstances that arose that led to the cuts that you had to make for the original release?

The political quests are exactly that type of a luxury content that’s easy to cut if you want to look like a sane and trustworthy designer for your producers. All four quests are mutually exclusive, which means that players will only see 1/4th of it in a single playthrough. And these are expensive quests – there are new characters and complex animations, and one of the quests even takes you to a completely new secret location. Super exciting for the player, but goes totally against the market logic when you’re struggling to get your debut out. So yeah it just didn’t make sense to make content most players are going to miss just to show off that we’re able to do that. We weren’t in our Witcher 2 phase yet (Witcher 2 has two different mid-game areas that are mutually exclusive; it’s a very impressive show off in that regard!).

That’s not the only content we cut. We’re putting back other tiny things too. Let’s just say there’s a surprise to those who say we messed up with a certain must-do Shivers check on a certain coast.

Given how crucial you say all the new additions in The Final Cut are to your vision of the game, how much of an impact can players expect these to have on story and gameplay? Should we expect things that are designed to enrich the experience that already exists in the game, or are they completely new and additive elements on top of it?

They’re separate from the rest of the game, but we still wanted them to have an impact on the main story. The conversations in the vision quests won’t revolve solely around politics – players will be discussing questions of love, hope, money and ambition with both new and old characters. It will reveal new aspects about some of the original characters in town as well as about the protagonist’s inner motivations. Some of those changes will stay with you until the very end – but I’ll leave it to players to discover exactly how.

Spoiler

"Some of those changes will stay with you until the very end – but I’ll leave it to players to discover exactly how."

The game’s entire script is being voiced in The Final Cut, which sounds like a huge undertaking. Disco Elysium is obviously a game that lives and breathes by its characters and its dialogue. Given that, what was the process like of adding complete voice work to the game on such a large scale and ensuring that a certain level of quality is maintained?

Yes, voicing one million words has been a Herculean feat, especially during the year where most of our work has moved online. As a studio we’ve put all our weight behind the VO department, assisting them in any way possible. There are three VO directors leading the show and they’ve done an excellent job. We’ve had numerous shared playthrough sessions and long discussions to make sure that we’re all on the same page about the characters and their motivations, plus we have the writers department doing part of the QA – a very fun task, considering that the outcome is just that good. It’s incredible how much more lively the dialogue feels with full VO.

What can you tell us about the additions being made with The Final Cut on the art and animations side of things?

We thought a lot about how to upgrade the original content – it now comes fully voiced, yes, but what else can we do to offer something new for the returning players and elevate it for the newcomers? That’s why we’ve been sprinkling new animations all over the game – I’d say that our animator Eduardo Rubio is one of our secret weapons, his style works wonders with the writing. Especially the ending should now feel much more complete with the added visual storytelling.

The art department has also updated some of the portraits – but there are no drastic changes, just some final polish. And then there’s The Final Cut content that will include new characters, animations and changes to the map – and some visual secrets at the end of the quests.

How substantial is the new content in The Final Cut going to be, in terms of gameplay hours?

Honestly we’ve realised that we’re rather bad at predicting gameplay hours. Players are somehow always faster readers than us or our internal QA team, plus they’re really good at missing missable content. What’s more, the length of each quest really depends on the player’s choices – we’ve purposefully designed all quests to be asymmetrical. Some of them are longer, others shorter, some more visual, others wordier. What’s certain is that each of them offers an entire separate questline tailored to your ideological choices in the game. With full VO and vision quests everyone’s play time should lengthen in total.



"The length of each quest really depends on the player’s choices – we’ve purposefully designed all quests to be asymmetrical. Some of them are longer, others shorter, some more visual, others wordier. What’s certain is that each of them offers an entire separate questline tailored to your ideological choices in the game."

It’s probably too early to ask this question, but given how successful Disco Elysium has been and how well it’s resonated with audiences, have you given any thought to the future of the property? Is there some vague hint that you can give fans about what the future holds?

The future holds more of Elysium – we’ve spent years designing the world and we’re not ready to leave yet. Martinaise is just a slice of Revachol – and Revachol just a single capital among many others. Who knows where the future will take us?

Disco Elysium: The Final Cut with the political vision quests and full VO will be out in March on PlayStation. It will also be available at no extra cost to all current owners of Disco Elysium (PC & Mac). Original players expand their experience for free while new players can enjoy the new content from their first playthrough.

 

[Testownia]

where is "fuck the world" jacket you cowards

It's already been released as a hoodie.

 

[Larianshill]

Kreia (and the game by extension) doesn't suggest a grey path for the PC...

Wrong. If you play the game according to Kreia's advice, you'll end up somewhere in the middle, leaning towards the Dark Side - and Kreia very much preaches against absolute commitment to the Dark Side as the game presents it ("You have failed me, completely and utterly"). To suggest that Kreia is not preaching a grey path is strange, because this is literally what she does for the entire game.

you've discarded Kreia's guidance (which seeks to bring the Jedi Masters together for that final confrontation) in favor of a petty moralism that goes against your self-interest as Kreia sees it.

Again, wrong. This is not how the cutscene at the conclave plays out - the game frames you as some sort of maddened beast who slaughtered the jedi masters out of rage for being exiled, or some other extreme emotional response, and Kreia calls you an idiot because of it. The game never entertains the possibility of you siding against Kavarr for any other reason other than being evil, which is a complete failure of gameplay and story integration. Contrast this with New Vegas, where you can take all sorts of political stances for completely varied reasons.

The game forces you to make a decision which is either light or dark side, and Kreia in turn condemns the PC for letting himself be 'possessed' by his respective side

If you consider this good writing, I will kill myself right here.

(as is the case with all conventional Force users within traditional Star Wars)

Point me out a specific moment in the Original Trilogy where such a thing happens. And no, Luke leaving Dagobah to save his friends does not count, since we have Luke and Yoda - two completely conventional jedi, as the next movie proves, arguing against it. Luke was not possessed by the Light Side - he was a human, and made a choice like a human would, while Yoda and Obi Wan argued against his choice from practical reasons - again, like humans do.

Which in turn leads to her explaining how one should not be conditioned by the Force in his actions - he should instead instrumentalize the Force towards his own ends by being aware of how his actions condition the Force through the resulting echoes instead. Precisely because the PC is a conventional Force user who has not transcended the limitations of a conventional (non-reflexive) way of thinking vis-a-vis his commitment to one side of the Force, it makes no sense for him to be given the option to rebuke Kreia since you are oblivious to this style of thinking which she wants you to embrace (and which, to her disappointment, you can also reject throughout the game in favor of remaining a caricature molded by the Force).

This is a very long-winded way to say "The scene absolutely needed the player character to be a complete retard, so he can be lectured".

 

[Verylittlefishes]

OK, 6 hours to go until Final Cut. Excited?

 

[HoboForEternity]

OK, 6 hours to go until Final Cut. Excited?

I already have the base game re installed

 

[tripedal]

Watching a bit of Final Cut on twitch and the narrator/thought VA is terrible, and as far as I can tell every new VA (Klaasje, Garte, Cuno, etc) is worse than the original. The person playing Pidieu is clearly 30+ years too young. Pure decline.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Watching a bit of Final Cut on twitch and the narrator/thought VA is terrible, and as far as I can tell every new VA (Klaasje, Garte, Cuno, etc) is worse than the original. Pure decline.

Link?

 

[tripedal]

Watching a bit of Final Cut on twitch and the narrator/thought VA is terrible, and as far as I can tell every new VA (Klaasje, Garte, Cuno, etc) is worse than the original. Pure decline.

Link?

A bunch of big streamers got it, try Zeke or Cohh.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

Imagine playing Final Cut with VO not turned off