Incline Disco Elysium - The Final Cut - a hardboiled cop show isometric RPG

[fantadomat]

and you have to make rolls in order to determine the outcome of your actions

Just like in Don't Get Mad and Monopoly, the ultimate RPGs.

And Zestrea.

Zestrea means dowry in degenerate western language.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

and you have to make rolls in order to determine the outcome of your actions

Just like in Don't Get Mad and Monopoly, the ultimate RPGs.

And Zestrea.

If chess is NOT an RPG, I don't know how to help poor souls inhabiting this thread!

 

[fantadomat]

and you have to make rolls in order to determine the outcome of your actions

Just like in Don't Get Mad and Monopoly, the ultimate RPGs.

And Zestrea.

If chess is NOT an RPG, I don't know how to help poor souls inhabiting this thread!

Ahh chest is not for me....because it is TB,too fucking slow. Having that in mind,i am not bad at it,just rarely enjoy past the first game.

 

[Latro]

So whether they'd acknowledge it as an RPG or not, they still wouldn't be able to appreciate it since (contemporary) high culture is something which is foreign to them.

one thing has nothing to do with the other. I do not like DE and I especially dislike the writing, but my complaint is that it does not belong here categorically. PoE has worse writing in every way imaginable, but that doesn't mean it's not an RPG.

 

[luj1]

So whether they'd acknowledge it as an RPG or not, they still wouldn't be able to appreciate it since (contemporary) high culture is something which is foreign to them.

Fuck you talking about you bulgar. This whole argument is about classification, not artistic merit. You can appreciate Disco for its style and originality which it undoubtedly has.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

and you have to make rolls in order to determine the outcome of your actions

Just like in Don't Get Mad and Monopoly, the ultimate RPGs.

And Zestrea.

If chess is NOT an RPG, I don't know how to help poor souls inhabiting this thread!

Ahh chest is not for me....because it is TB,too fucking slow. Having that in mind,i am not bad at it,just rarely enjoy past the first game.

Maybe you should try...

 

[luj1]

Actually chess with a story is technically a rudimentary RPG.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

So whether they'd acknowledge it as an RPG or not, they still wouldn't be able to appreciate it since (contemporary) high culture is something which is foreign to them.

one thing has nothing to do with the other. I do not like DE and I especially dislike the writing, but my complaint is that it does not belong here categorically. PoE has worse writing in every way imaginable, but that doesn't mean it's not an RPG.

So whether they'd acknowledge it as an RPG or not, they still wouldn't be able to appreciate it since (contemporary) high culture is something which is foreign to them.

Fuck you talking about you bulgar. This whole argument is about classification, not artistic merit. You can appreciate Disco for its style and originality which it undoubtedly has.

Reread the beginning of the post which you've quoted, lads. I'm talking about those that shit on the game whether they acknowledge it as an RPG or not.

 

[luj1]

I assume it's a good game (?), I don't play adventure games so I don't know.

 

[Sweeper]

Oh look.
It's still not an RPG.

 

[fantadomat]

So whether they'd acknowledge it as an RPG or not, they still wouldn't be able to appreciate it since (contemporary) high culture is something which is foreign to them.

one thing has nothing to do with the other. I do not like DE and I especially dislike the writing, but my complaint is that it does not belong here categorically. PoE has worse writing in every way imaginable, but that doesn't mean it's not an RPG.

So whether they'd acknowledge it as an RPG or not, they still wouldn't be able to appreciate it since (contemporary) high culture is something which is foreign to them.

Fuck you talking about you bulgar. This whole argument is about classification, not artistic merit. You can appreciate Disco for its style and originality which it undoubtedly has.

Reread the beginning of the post which you've quoted, lads. I'm talking about those that shit on the game whether they acknowledge it as an RPG or not.

Yeah,like expecting a pig to appreciate pearls or diamonds. Sadly we do have quite a few plebs on the codex. Maybe we will end up with a peasant revolution or something.

 

[Harthwain]

but not recognizing it is an RPG is asinine at this point.

it's just dice rolls you idiot. "actual system based off of PnP" my ass.

https://zaumstudio.com/2016/09/30/design-ethos-role-playing-system/

 

[KVVRR]

I mean a TV series set in this world could be cool, but I doubt they find a writer who could adapt ZA/UM's style.

For adapting Disco Elysium, they will need to find a writer with extensive prior experience with videogames, a personal history of alcoholism, and who is nonetheless available for a television series.

Spoiler

Fuck it, just cast him as Harry. He'll be perfect.

No, the perfect Harry would be Nic Cage. I'd reckon he'd be the only actor willing to maintain The Expression for the whole show, too.

 

[Wunderbar]

In my opinion, the best thing to do with obvious GARBAGE games is to let them run their course. Those FADS won't last because they are GARBAGE, they can fool people into initially buying into them but afterwards there will be a decline in sales no matter what. Only true quality can keep up and even increase sales long term. This phenomenon can be demonstrated in many games, gamestyles, and franchises. Eventually the shit just goes away like being flushed in a toilet.

This is not the first time an adventure game made a big success and a huge splash in the industry, yet later that style of game faded away and the company went the way of Interplay. It happened already in this decade with Telltale games. Initially the Walking Dead game made a HUGE SPLASH, it even got GOTY AWARDS and was generally succesful financially, but the formula grew thin eventually and a few years later Telltale went out of business.... You could only fool people that their choices mattered and that your visual novel contained "gameplay" for so long before they simply refused to buy your shit anymore.... Shills and influencers can only fool customers into giving you sheckels for a sort period of time....

The same thing will happen with Disco Shitisium. So i have no worries.

Incredible, the guy who thinks Skyrim is the best game ever made doesn't like Disco Elysium. I'm shocked.

broken clock is right twice a day

 

[Thac0]

Holy shit I finished it this evening. Credits are rolling as I write.

The ending was fucking awfull - had I played it without high shivers and mental stats.
The secret ending was extremely interesting and satisfying.

Spoiler

Talking with the Phasmid about the origin if the Pale has cleared up so many loose ends and made me change my opinion on the whole lore of the game from pretentrious bullcrap to kinda neat. Also it remedies the game being about a random bullshit commie by weaving it into a larger story about consciousness which I really like. Also that Dolores part was really neat

You dont need a 3 meter stick insect to tell you that women was hell was one of the best lines of dialogue I ever read.

Overall the feeling of slowly reshaping this shambling wreck of an alcoholic looser was amazing. Extremely good progression feeling, more than in most other "proper" rpgs.
I ended as an ultraliberal/fascist which surprised me a bit. Ultraliberal was spot on, I had the thought cabinet ability that gave me money for advanced economics. Really cool bit of implied storytelling there, that greed pushes you into the ideology. Clever jab at my political beliefs since I am somewhat ultralib, I can appreciate that. But my secondary answers were communist over fascists the whole game. It surprised me a bit when Kim called me a Nazi in the end. Also I got Sorry Cop which seemed to be the most logical approach after you wake up with alcohol

Spoiler

Antimatter

induced amnesia.
Kim liked me, I got Tequila sober, aced the

Spoiler

Trial at the end and got promoted I think?

Had that date, tried to help Kruno, did a lot of good shit for the city in general.

Overall I highly enjoyed it. The hallmarks of Indie are obvious, a lot of design stuff makes no sense. Like getting item placement and the equipment distribution and balance. But it was overall great fun! Kudos to Za/Um.
Now as to check out that clam game...

 

[Thac0]

Oh yeah being an Ultralib makes this game really easy. I was fucking rich most of the time, ended the game with 200+ real in my pocket, every item from every store bought (except for the street lamp) and 30+ of both healing items. And that was after I abandoned the real money maker thoughts from the cabinet halfway through for more stats.
Not that I minded tho, the transition from grimy suffering to being an ultra-rich-light-bending-guy myself felt really good.

Also unlocking the abilties that give you xp for encyclopedia and art checks turns this game into a power fantasy. I ended the game with all blue skills maxed and high purple skills, also maybe 5 dots more in store and a full thought cabinet. Since those happen at the halfway point it only accentuates turning Tequilas life around tho.

 

[Stavrophore]

Its basically supercharged point and click adventure game, the fact that you make yourself a fascist/communist/liberal persona doesn't change how quests end or have no influence on the story[beside few sentences at ending].

What i liked:
-witty dialogues
-complete "no fucks given" altitude of the main character
-music
-atmospheric locations and atmosphere of hopelessness and nihilism
-many ways to use different talents[skillchecks] to progress the story like a proper RPG should have[which the game isnt]

What i've disliked:
-game is ultimately linear, side quests will not yield breakthroughs in investigation, there's gatekeeping and you have to wait until you get to that particular part of story -ie. you cant interrogatet klaasie at the begining, doors are closed. Many earlier decisions ultimately dont matter -ie. tribunal scene and only a slight variation of outcomes
-some of the backtracking, ie. going to ervart is extremely annoying because of loading screens and distance
-there's no challenge with investigation since all clues are highlighted by your brain
-extreme communist pandering, the game basically try to convince you to be a communist. It might seemingly denounce communism, but as one dialogue in the game says "no communist would acknowledge openly that he/she is a communist". Even if the devs are not communist[dont lie yourself, every socialist is just a communist when pushed enough], the socialist viewpoint of their is undeniable throughout the game. I felt that the game was specifically made to share their socialist viewpoint, and the rest was just the setting/wrapping to spout their ideas and put them in context.
The typical commie shtick of "communism fails because of corrupt union leaders, but with good leaders it will work this time!" is such an old cliche demagoguery.
-every dialogues that are not tied to socialism/communism are unfullfiling and have no satisfying follow up. Its obvious that the writers have poor idea about other doctrines than socialism. The arguments/dialogue options of ultraliberals but most importantly nationalists/racists/fascists were presented in completely comical and caricatural manner, overblown, twisted and without any integrity. Also game basically punished you for nationalist answers with morale hit and basically nothing in return -some useless health when under alcohol influence. Basically equating nationalism with alcoholic brute gameplay, that smashes things and loses health, so that's why he needs additional health...
-i've said that i liked witty dialogues, but some of these were just TOO MUCH. Like a fucking LE REDDITOR tier levels of cringe, leftist snarkiness and all that jazz. Some were just completely inane, some were out of place even for a careless drunken cop who lost his memory. There were many uninteresting dialogues like your brain talking with yourself during sleep, many of the background lore was just info dump especially when playing with "encyclopedia". Its not like the lore is super interesting, the whole Pale thing is like deus ex machina. Writing quality varied quite much, some dialogues were interesting enough to read all, some you just skip over.
-whacky things, at some point i forgot i was playing a detective game -the soona "puncture in fabric of reality" quest, the ultra rich container bending light, plasmid
-technologically inconsistent universe, there are radiocomputers, yet there's also talk about semiconductors existing.The tech level is basically all over, though the muzzle loaders are required by law, so that is at least consistent with the lore
-hopelessness and nihilism, the game just blames this on coalition crushing revolution. The game also basically want to give you a message "you are underpaid cop, why the fuck care about all of this, see you even can be a hobo and sell tare, you are hobo enforcing the capitalist system, give up!". It got weary after some time.
-the pacing was somewhat uneven, when you explore the locations, you get many side quests that are tangential/humorous and you lose focus from the case.
-for RPG itemization was bad, for point and click adventure it was pretty good. Only think ive disliked was the fact that ive switched clothes before every check, to maximize the stats. Would like to see an QoL option to use basically two click to order character to wear all clothes that maximize a specific attribute
-i couldn't deduce what some of these "thought cabinet" perks will do when completed. Some were descriptive enough, and had stats, some don't. Basically a cat in the bag.
-some things didn't work

Spoiler

ive ordered the coalition clerk to arrest the klaasje, and in the end she wasn't arrested, maybe a bug?

-the second location was worse, it seems the game lost its focus and steam, become diluted. It feels like developers added it as filler, a mix of ideas, and then they also probably thought its not enough,

Spoiler

the ending must be complete whack out-surprise, so they've added yet another location that is pretty much inaccesible for the 90% of the game. Bad design, a coherent story would enable clever player to find a solution before the game ending, and basically give him a free hand to find it in the world presented. Sadly that's not the case of Disco Elysium, where the ending is so whack you wouldn't come up with it before, and beside you have no access to all evidence, you are blocked by the game, until the ending.

And most important
-unsatisfying ending/closing of the investigation. This is such a cheap move and pretty anticlimatic, detracting from the whole union-capitalist divide theme which i thought will be in the end a culprit of our murder.

Spoiler

Plus the plasmid wackiness. At least the funny encounter with your collegaues made up for this, but in the end, you too easily can weasel out yourself from the trouble you've done and things you said

Overall i rate the game 7+ out of 10. If it didn't pander so hard for socialism, presented other viewpoint truthfully and satisfactory, changed the killer persona and its connection to the whole faction dynamic[beside mercenaries of capitalist company, corrupt unions, you also have COPS, the game forgets about the whole cop dynamic, it would be interesting to see an interaction of cop interests in the game] it could be 8+ out of 10.

 

[Tigranes]

Weren't you the guy I said this to before? Who knows, but I'll say it again: the game presents socialism as something that has already lost, something that has tumbled irreversibly out of the pitiless flow of history for good or for ill. Its proponents are variously insane, dying, forgotten, left behind, lonely - i.e. embodiments of an ideology that they themselves know deep down will not have its day in the sun. It's also represented pretty much in one or one and a half shades, and a lot of varieties are not written in (for obvious reasons). Capitalism might be the only one that you can embrace with a little more leeway in how you feel about it.

And as I said back then, people who scream that this was communist, anti-communist, fascist, anti-fascist, etc, etc., it says more about which of these ideologies that player knows more about or is more interested in. If you don't know very much about X ideology, then you're not going to see that it was possibly given a reductive treatment. If you really dislike X ideology and it grates on you, then you're going to feel like the game is shoving it down your throat.

Anyway, the game shouldn't be judged by whether it gives equal time/prominence to every single ideology in some kind of storyboard balance; might as well demand that there's a quota. Ultimately the game is about themes of failure, persistence, (lack of?) redemption, memory, and so on - and focusing overmuch on the 'war of ideologies' is a thin way to digest it.

Broadly agreed with other points, the game is weaker in the second half, although I liked the ending and have no problem with it.

 

[Harthwain]

Even if the devs are not communist[dont lie yourself, every socialist is just a communist when pushed enough], the socialist viewpoint of their is undeniable throughout the game. I felt that the game was specifically made to share their socialist viewpoint, and the rest was just the setting/wrapping to spout their ideas and put them in context.

Indeed, the game is truly a monument to Communism:

YOU - How come there's *word on the street*?

RHETORIC - You keep saying things like *down with the bourgeoisie*, *eat the rich*, *sodomize the land-owners*, *impale all people who have more than 25 real in their pocket*, *literally murder all human beings regardless of their political beliefs* -- that kind of stuff.

YOU - Oh, right. That sounds like me.

RHETORIC - Funky-style. Very funky. So tell me. Do you have any more questions before we fire up the Big Communism Builder, or do we get right down to it?

YOU - Roll up your sleeves and start building Communism. (Opt in.)

RHETORIC - Oh yeah! Get the firing squads and the animal wagons ready!

No one wants to be associated with communism by the time you get there. The party is over. They'd rather call themselves socialists and social democrats. No wonder – commies got their asses handed to them 50 years ago. Their little commune got wiped off the face of the Earth. Even worse, the civil war gave foreign powers a casus belli to invade Revachol and now look at the shit we're in. Also, Kras Mazov, the father of scientific communism killed himself.

Don't pick this ideology. It's a swamp of melancholy and would-have-beens. Also, they, like, killed a lot of people. There's a smart centrist man who once calculated that communism has killed 100 billion people in total

 

[Verylittlefishes]

No one wants to be associated with communism by the time you get there. The party is over. They'd rather call themselves socialists and social democrats. No wonder – commies got their asses handed to them 50 years ago. Their little commune got wiped off the face of the Earth. Even worse, the civil war gave foreign powers a casus belli to invade Revachol and now look at the shit we're in. Also, Kras Mazov, the father of scientific communism killed himself.

Don't pick this ideology. It's a swamp of melancholy and would-have-beens. Also, they, like, killed a lot of people. There's a smart centrist man who once calculated that communism has killed 100 billion people in total

Kurvitz is terrific writer
(or was it the redhead beauty?)

 

[AwesomeButton]

Scientific communism - "Mazovian Socio-economics" - is such a treasure trove of laughs that the game was worth it for this idea alone.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

Scientific communism - "Mazovian Socio-economics" - is such a treasure trove of laughs that the game was worth it for this idea alone.

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin. All he has managed to do is make himself *sad*. He is starting to suspect Kras Mazov *fucked him over* personally with his socio-economic theory. It has, however, made him into a very, very smart boy with something like a university degree in Truth. Instead of building Communism, he now builds a precise model of this grotesque, duplicitous world.

 

[Thac0]

Spoiler

Its basically supercharged point and click adventure game, the fact that you make yourself a fascist/communist/liberal persona doesn't change how quests end or have no influence on the story[beside few sentences at ending].

What i liked:
-witty dialogues
-complete "no fucks given" altitude of the main character
-music
-atmospheric locations and atmosphere of hopelessness and nihilism
-many ways to use different talents[skillchecks] to progress the story like a proper RPG should have[which the game isnt]

What i've disliked:
-game is ultimately linear, side quests will not yield breakthroughs in investigation, there's gatekeeping and you have to wait until you get to that particular part of story -ie. you cant interrogatet klaasie at the begining, doors are closed. Many earlier decisions ultimately dont matter -ie. tribunal scene and only a slight variation of outcomes
-some of the backtracking, ie. going to ervart is extremely annoying because of loading screens and distance
-there's no challenge with investigation since all clues are highlighted by your brain
-extreme communist pandering, the game basically try to convince you to be a communist. It might seemingly denounce communism, but as one dialogue in the game says "no communist would acknowledge openly that he/she is a communist". Even if the devs are not communist[dont lie yourself, every socialist is just a communist when pushed enough], the socialist viewpoint of their is undeniable throughout the game. I felt that the game was specifically made to share their socialist viewpoint, and the rest was just the setting/wrapping to spout their ideas and put them in context.
The typical commie shtick of "communism fails because of corrupt union leaders, but with good leaders it will work this time!" is such an old cliche demagoguery.
-every dialogues that are not tied to socialism/communism are unfullfiling and have no satisfying follow up. Its obvious that the writers have poor idea about other doctrines than socialism. The arguments/dialogue options of ultraliberals but most importantly nationalists/racists/fascists were presented in completely comical and caricatural manner, overblown, twisted and without any integrity. Also game basically punished you for nationalist answers with morale hit and basically nothing in return -some useless health when under alcohol influence. Basically equating nationalism with alcoholic brute gameplay, that smashes things and loses health, so that's why he needs additional health...
-i've said that i liked witty dialogues, but some of these were just TOO MUCH. Like a fucking LE REDDITOR tier levels of cringe, leftist snarkiness and all that jazz. Some were just completely inane, some were out of place even for a careless drunken cop who lost his memory. There were many uninteresting dialogues like your brain talking with yourself during sleep, many of the background lore was just info dump especially when playing with "encyclopedia". Its not like the lore is super interesting, the whole Pale thing is like deus ex machina. Writing quality varied quite much, some dialogues were interesting enough to read all, some you just skip over.
-whacky things, at some point i forgot i was playing a detective game -the soona "puncture in fabric of reality" quest, the ultra rich container bending light, plasmid
-technologically inconsistent universe, there are radiocomputers, yet there's also talk about semiconductors existing.The tech level is basically all over, though the muzzle loaders are required by law, so that is at least consistent with the lore
-hopelessness and nihilism, the game just blames this on coalition crushing revolution. The game also basically want to give you a message "you are underpaid cop, why the fuck care about all of this, see you even can be a hobo and sell tare, you are hobo enforcing the capitalist system, give up!". It got weary after some time.
-the pacing was somewhat uneven, when you explore the locations, you get many side quests that are tangential/humorous and you lose focus from the case.
-for RPG itemization was bad, for point and click adventure it was pretty good. Only think ive disliked was the fact that ive switched clothes before every check, to maximize the stats. Would like to see an QoL option to use basically two click to order character to wear all clothes that maximize a specific attribute
-i couldn't deduce what some of these "thought cabinet" perks will do when completed. Some were descriptive enough, and had stats, some don't. Basically a cat in the bag.
-some things didn't work

Spoiler

ive ordered the coalition clerk to arrest the klaasje, and in the end she wasn't arrested, maybe a bug?

-the second location was worse, it seems the game lost its focus and steam, become diluted. It feels like developers added it as filler, a mix of ideas, and then they also probably thought its not enough,

Spoiler

the ending must be complete whack out-surprise, so they've added yet another location that is pretty much inaccesible for the 90% of the game. Bad design, a coherent story would enable clever player to find a solution before the game ending, and basically give him a free hand to find it in the world presented. Sadly that's not the case of Disco Elysium, where the ending is so whack you wouldn't come up with it before, and beside you have no access to all evidence, you are blocked by the game, until the ending.

And most important
-unsatisfying ending/closing of the investigation. This is such a cheap move and pretty anticlimatic, detracting from the whole union-capitalist divide theme which i thought will be in the end a culprit of our murder.

Spoiler

Plus the plasmid wackiness. At least the funny encounter with your collegaues made up for this, but in the end, you too easily can weasel out yourself from the trouble you've done and things you said

Overall i rate the game 7+ out of 10. If it didn't pander so hard for socialism, presented other viewpoint truthfully and satisfactory, changed the killer persona and its connection to the whole faction dynamic[beside mercenaries of capitalist company, corrupt unions, you also have COPS, the game forgets about the whole cop dynamic, it would be interesting to see an interaction of cop interests in the game] it could be 8+ out of 10.

I do agree here, the game has a bias towards Communism/Moralism and it shows. I dont think it is an intended bias, since they tried to make other paths viable and to make communism a negative example aswell. However every piece of fiction you write is always influenced by the writers personal beliefs. The writers didnt know jackshit about either European or American liberal theories, and as such the liberal response is usually pretty shallow and doesnt fit the ideology, not even from the perspective of the raging drunk uneducated Tequila. I do not know what shitty theories the nazis use to justify their bullshit but I assume the fascist options dont do these justice either.

The portrayal of communism is fundamentally different since it always has that right in principle, wrong in execution vibe. Also its just backed by a lot more knowledge. I have some knowledge of both communist and ultraliberal theory since a lot of cartell law essays like the conflate and contrast the two, and even playing as a capitalist the communistic blurbs are a lot more on point.

All communists in this game are exculpated for some reason. The leader of the hardy bois is straight up a cool guy, one of the very few true moral goods in the game. The union leader might be a caricature of the caviar communist - but he is inredibly effective for the workers. When you do the community sidequest with high Drama/Empathy/Logic you learn that his plans to upgrade the lifes of the workers in the Hamlet work and he isnt interested in self gain, he means his every worker a member of the board stuff (Unless you believe that his drama is so incredibly high you never have a chance to gauge his true motives, which i consider far fetched). Moreover he actually manages to get the harbour under union hands. The ex soldier where Prime Junta has his profile pic from is a cool guy aswell. Even the murderer is mostly innocent due to him being not a real communist, but an insane Nazbol who rants half of the time about why the fascists were right, and has neurodamage from either the Phasmid or just disease.

As compared to the other ideologies communism gets the best end of the stick, but Ultraliberalism has one good person aswell (the wild pines rep) and Moralism has Kim. Every fascist in the game is a piece of shit that the game would be better off without. Although I can imagine writing a likeable and sensible fascist isnt the easiest task, they tend to be pretty selfish. I can see why the game would trigger a fascist, which it did judging by the reactions on the codex here. Or maybe fascists just coincode heavily with the people that think a combatless rpg is an affront to tradition.

But overall it doesnt matter too much since the poltical alignment is just the garnish, not the beef. Evil options are almost never represented well in rpgs, its always hurr hurr here I go torturing children for 5 gold pieces. This game just sees Libright and Authright as evil alignments.

 

[overly excitable young man]

The ex soldier where Prime Junta has his profile pic from is a cool guy aswell.

LOL How did you miss that Rene is a fascist/"royalist"?

 

[Van-d-all]

Scientific communism - "Mazovian Socio-economics" - is such a treasure trove of laughs that the game was worth it for this idea alone.

Personally I prefer the Advanced Race Theory, but yeah.