Disco Elysium spoilery thread

[Kyl Von Kull]

what happens if

Spoiler

you don't give speed to Cuno? Does he appear on the island? I gave it to him but he wasn't there

Cuno only comes with you to the island if Kim gets shot during the tribunal.

 

[Alpan]

I have to wonder if the Pale is a sort of meta-commentary on the nature of role-playing sessions and the fact that their participants (eventually, due to life or by simple virtue of the game ending) move on.

From how it is presented in game one gets the impression that the Pale is either null data (as in the "2 mm hole in the world", apparently representing "nothing") or arbitrary data (i.e. whatever data remains at a given memory address at the time of its accession, like in the case of uninitialized variables in a language like C). It then overwrites reality (i.e. the actual game data) with its own information at a given location. To this we introduce the notion of pale-surfing where people move through the pale to reach whatever location they wish to go. We are told that this adversely affects the mental makeup of the participants, as in Joyce and the pale-driver, and possibly also our main character.

But what causes the characters to move around in the first place? The game master and the players who, depending on the session, place the characters where they need to be. But role-playing sessions are often separated by lengthy time intervals. Weeks if not months can pass before a session can resume. No participant is going to have the exact same notion of a character they were playing between sessions. Their recollections of the character will differ and so will how they role-play that character, however subtle the difference may be. Over many sessions the differences will add up, the character will change, hence the mental warping.

Still older characters fondly remembered can be reused for new sessions, new adventures. They can be given a lease of new life and a new role. But what does it mean to be an older character to be repurposed? It means that the character loses any sense of time and with it a singular identity. Multiple identities can then overlap, memories can intermix. Such characters can become pale-drivers.

What happens when sessions conclude, participants leave, campaigns finish? Part of the setting is shelved, though not forgotten. Maybe they reside in the memory of the participants and the characters they bring over to new campaigns; but still the locations are no longer visited, so they are overwritten by the Pale. If a tree falls in the woods and nobody's there to hear it, the tree doesn't exist. The participants' attention is elsewhere.

What happens if there isn't anybody left to play? When there are no longer any sessions running? The Pale wins -- reality is overcome entirely. Nothing remains. Thank you for playing, and thank you for the good times. The group disbands -- but maybe one day they will Return?

 

[Jenkem]

The Pale and the stuff surrounding it were the most interesting bits in the game, shame they decided to focus on meme politics instead.

 

[vota DC]

The Pale is just an unkwnown menace that people use to have an excuse to ride flying white giant dogs when their horse sunk in a swamp.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

The Pale is just an unkwnown menace that people use to have an excuse to ride flying white giant dogs when their horse sunk in a swamp.

 

[TT1]

Where is the hat? I cannot find it anywhere and I can see screenshots with it early in the game

 

[Belegarsson]

Where is the hat? I cannot find it anywhere and I can see screenshots with it early in the game

Which one, the Mullen fedora? Try the bookstore.

 

[FeelTheRads]

The Pale and the stuff surrounding it were the most interesting bits in the game, shame they decided to focus on meme politics instead.

Yeah, really, this has more "current year" garbage in it than several AAA games put together. Down to even "muh women assaulted by being asked out by their boss".

I guess the difference is that they made all this shit part of the game rather than throw it in randomly.

Hey, whatever, if that's what they want in their game that's what they want.

But I did finish the game, (so that's something I guess) I pushed through all that shit, but in the end I can only see it as a waste of a good setting.
I could also get into how half of the skills are basically unused and how I finished the game with like 20 unused skill points. But it doesn't look like anybody cares about that, it's either about the politics, or about the writing. Or the random retarded commie fapping over a game made by commies.

 

[Strange Fellow]

I finished the game with like 20 unused skill points.

But why?

 

[Daidre]

Down to even "muh women assaulted by being asked out by their boss".

Player can mediate situation and find out that there is mutual sympathy and no one was offended.

Only problem is a bloated corpse in the backyard that did not facilitate romantic mood.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Player can mediate situation and find out that there is mutual sympathy and no one was offended.

I know. I also know that technically you can say you don't see the problem. But the game clearly pushes the "this is very bad" angle.

However, I'm saying my problem is that it's there. Not how it was handled. I don't care for this kind of garbage. If you do, that's fine. It's just not for me.

But why?

Why not?

1. I started with the character to the left (thinker or something) and you barely need to put any point in any of the skills from the 2 non-dump stats.
2. For the 2 non-dump stats you are severely limited in how many skills points you can assign.

So, what's the point in putting in points randomly?
It's literally impossible to tell what skill checks you'll encounter (with how random they are used for the same kind of situations), so it's not like you can say "damn, imma boost this one cuz it's definitely gonna be useful."

So where to put them then? I had all thoughts filled and even replaced several of them. Based on what logic should I assign them. There's none.
I assume they've foreseen this that's why you have a list of the checks that you can retry, but in the end those were mostly checks that I think were impossible for my character (needing to have different stats).

 

[Strange Fellow]

All skills have a huge amount of passive checks. Even if you don't care about that (and I wonder why you'd even play this if you don't) you'll never have enough skill points to retry all the white checks you'll fail during the course of a playthrough.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Well, guess I didn't need them.

No, I didn't pass all the checks. And no, I didn't retry all the failed ones. As I said, I think all of those were impossible (not impossible like the game rates them, but actually impossible) for my character.
I only said I finished the games with a lot of skill points left. And you asked me why. That's why. I didn't know where to put them and didn't even feel like I needed them.

And if by passive checks you mean those that show up as your "inner dialogue", I only missed like a couple in the whole game.
Even if I was going for a "win all checks" thing (is that really the goal, though?), again, how would I go about it. It's not like you can know what you need. The only logic would be to spread the points evenly, I guess.

 

[JarlFrank]

Uuuuuuuh you spend the points when you think you need them?

You encounter a check you want to pass, you put points in the respective skill.
It's not rocket science.

 

[tripedal]

And if by passive checks you mean those that show up as your "inner dialogue", I only missed like a couple in the whole game.

Most failed passive checks are silent, you never see that you failed.

 

[Haba]

Player can mediate situation and find out that there is mutual sympathy and no one was offended.

I know. I also know that technically you can say you don't see the problem. But the game clearly pushes the "this is very bad" angle.

However, I'm saying my problem is that it's there. Not how it was handled. I don't care for this kind of garbage. If you do, that's fine. It's just not for me.

Game that
- lets you call women whores
- lets you punch children
- lets you do drugs with children
(and rewards you for both)
- lets you kill children (and tells you that it was probably a good thing you did)
- lets you set up a drug lab
- lets you role-play a racist that rambles on about foreigners

Current year garbage indeed.

 

[Saduj]

I didn’t hoard points and really didn’t have any left over until the very end when the game throws a ton of XP at you during the final conversations. And I didn’t skip much as far as opportunities to gain xp go. At a certain point I did start spreading points around more and noticed more passive checks passed in dialogue. Also spent points on buffing up my char physically in anticipation of the inevitable gun fight.

 

[FeelTheRads]

You encounter a check you want to pass, you put points in the respective skill.
It's not rocket science.

So, this game is played backwards? You first fail and then retry?

That's fine. Except I already said that the checks I had left of the list were not possible with my stats. I couldn't assign enough skill points to pass them.

Point is, I had points left over. I could have used them in any skill, but I didn't need them.

Thank you for the lesson in how to play a genre I played for like almost the length of your life, captain rocket surgeon.

Most failed passive checks are silent, you never see that you failed.

Right, so how does that help me to know where to put the points? Or figure out what's the logic.

OK, say I missed a ton of these invisible checks and I could've passed them if I spent all my points... but, I saw no reason to spend them.
Say you have no checks left that you can do and still have points... where do you put them?
The logical way to me is to either spread them evenly, or "roleplay" by putting them in the skills derived from your main stats. Which makes them even more useless (at least it looks like that) since those skills are already high and hardly need more points.

In a second playthrough, when you kinda know what you need, sure. Then maybe you'll also hit those invisible checks.

Current year garbage indeed.

Indeed. I acknowledged you can "roleplay" against them, but yes the "current year" themes are all there. I think they only missed climate change? Even if I didn't feel like the game had an agenda, the themes ARE there.
Also in the other thread I admitted that I maybe there's no agenda and I'm just not reading it correctly. But hey, whenever you have the option to go against, it always feels to me like it's done in a sarcastic way and the developers are wagging their finger at you.
Very possible I am brainwashed by the Codex, however, again, the themes are there and I don't care for them. I don't see the need for them. But as I said, I appreciate that at least they're part of the game. With a few exceptions where they throw in random communist crap in discussions where it really didn't seem warranted. Is it just for fun because the game is "ZANY"? Maybe, but I hate communists! Kill all commies!

Oh yeah, and I do appreciate that you can indeed play an asshole (even if the devs judge you).

 

[Strange Fellow]

So, this game is played backwards? You first fail and then retry?

That's fine. Except I already said that the checks I had left of the list were not possible with my stats. I couldn't assign enough skill points to pass them.

This isn't right. You can increase even a dumpstat skill to 5+ with thoughts, clothes and substance abuse.

Right, so how does that help me to know where to put the points?

I feel like it would be logical to assume that putting the points into skills would be more beneficial than not spending the points at all. But you're the expert, of course.

OK, say I missed a ton of these invisible checks and I could've passed them if I spent all my points... but, I saw no reason to spend them.

Did you not enjoy the internal dialogues? Then there's nothing to get, you just don't like the game.

Say you have no checks left that you can do and still have points... where do you put them?

I strongly doubt that this is possible.

The logical way to me is to either spread them evenly, or "roleplay" by putting them in the skills derived from your main stats.

Roleplay? In an RPG? Preposterous! And no, even with a maxed stat you won't be able to pass all the associated checks without investing in the skills themselves.

 

[CappenVarra]

So, this game is played backwards? You first fail and then retry?

That's fine. Except I already said that the checks I had left of the list were not possible with my stats. I couldn't assign enough skill points to pass them.

This isn't right. You can increase even a dumpstat skill to 5+ with thoughts, clothes and substance abuse.

my 1 Motorics Harrier had 14 perception end game - and it makes a huge difference in the amount of stuff that shows up in the world (using Tab highlight), not to mention passive and active checks

leaving SP unassigned is similar to leaving attribute points unassigned during chargen - sure, the game allows it - but all you achieve is less stuff to do and see, why would anybody do that?

 

[TT1]

Could Dolores Dei be "D&D" and all the talk about Harry speaking in dialogue tree be a metaphor about RPGs?

 

[Prime Junta]

Could Dolores Dei be "D&D" and all the talk about Harry speaking in dialogue tree be a metaphor about RPGs?

I think it's more likely to be a coincidence. She figures in Robert's worldbuilding since long before Disco Elysium was conceived, and she's not the only Innocence, just the Innocence of the current century. The Franconigerian cavalry that pops up in a couple of places is a reference to the previous century's Innocence, Franconegro. Robert does like to sneak in meta references whenever he can get away with it, but I don't think this one makes sense. The dialogue tree thing is most definitely meta.

 

[Daidre]

It is some classy trolling that most interesting book in the game - about Innocences, does not give any actual lore. Your brain just can't digest it and gives you some ridiculous exam. Too juicy of the plot hook for a next installations in the setting?

 

[Terenty]

Is there an explanation of how the deserter managed to infiltrate Whirling in rags find the key for the secret door then hide it on the window and what he was actually doing there?

Just simple yes or no would suffice. If there is, maybe i will find out on my second playthrough.

 

[Terenty]

Thanks