Developer Story Time with Old Man Davis

[No soup for you!]

I do think there are improvements being made.

Also, more and more PC gamers also have a controllers now too.

Finally, and I know this is obvious, but there are fundamental input differences between controller versus mouse and keyboard.

In many cases, you are at least doing 1.5 to 3.0 times as much work to support both input schemes at the same time. Some games, like FPS's have it easier, while some, like ARPGs, are much harder.

Witcher 2 is really a poster child of this sort of UI compromise.

I'm not quite as optimistic about this front. The root issue is that mechanics are designed for certain UI devices. You can certainly make mappings for other devices after the fact, but they will always feel that way.

Even FPS games are fundamentally different games when played with K&S v. controller when one takes into account the auto-aiming and other assistance mechanics baked into the game.

 

[Anthony Davis]

I do think there are improvements being made.

Also, more and more PC gamers also have a controllers now too.

Finally, and I know this is obvious, but there are fundamental input differences between controller versus mouse and keyboard.

In many cases, you are at least doing 1.5 to 3.0 times as much work to support both input schemes at the same time. Some games, like FPS's have it easier, while some, like ARPGs, are much harder.

Witcher 2 is really a poster child of this sort of UI compromise.

I'm not quite as optimistic about this front. The root issue is that mechanics are designed for certain UI devices. You can certainly make mappings for other devices after the fact, but they will always feel that way.

Even FPS games are fundamentally different games when played with K&S v. controller when one takes into account the auto-aiming and other assistance mechanics baked into the game.

Yeah, when I mentioned FPS, I meant it as an example where you can build two UI's with very clear goals because so many games have already done it. You are still building two UIs, but at least you aren't breaking new ground trying to innovate a solution.

At least... that's what I was thinking in my head when I wrote "FPS's have it easier"

 

[mindx2]

Anthony Davis Question: You know how many complaints there are about consolized user interfaces in PC versions of games. Do you think the industry is making any strides towards rectifying that? Is there a trend towards designing games with separate, per-platform interfaces in mind? I'm asking you about this since it seems to me that this is mainly a technical/programming issue.

I do think there are improvements being made.

Also, more and more PC gamers also have a controllers now too.

NO, NO, NO, NO.... NO!!!!

 

[Infinitron]

I do think there are improvements being made.

Also, more and more PC gamers also have a controllers now too.

Finally, and I know this is obvious, but there are fundamental input differences between controller versus mouse and keyboard.

In many cases, you are at least doing 1.5 to 3.0 times as much work to support both input schemes at the same time. Some games, like FPS's have it easier, while some, like ARPGs, are much harder.

Witcher 2 is really a poster child of this sort of UI compromise.

I'm not quite as optimistic about this front. The root issue is that mechanics are designed for certain UI devices. You can certainly make mappings for other devices after the fact, but they will always feel that way.

Even FPS games are fundamentally different games when played with K&S v. controller when one takes into account the auto-aiming and other assistance mechanics baked into the game.

I don't know, I sometimes suspect that this is something that's waiting for some genius to solve it once and for all, on an engine/infrastructure-level. After which everybody will slap their foreheads and ask themselves how they tolerated releasing console interfaces on PC all those years.

What do I know, though

 

[Anthony Davis]

I do think there are improvements being made.

Also, more and more PC gamers also have a controllers now too.

Finally, and I know this is obvious, but there are fundamental input differences between controller versus mouse and keyboard.

In many cases, you are at least doing 1.5 to 3.0 times as much work to support both input schemes at the same time. Some games, like FPS's have it easier, while some, like ARPGs, are much harder.

Witcher 2 is really a poster child of this sort of UI compromise.

I'm not quite as optimistic about this front. The root issue is that mechanics are designed for certain UI devices. You can certainly make mappings for other devices after the fact, but they will always feel that way.

Even FPS games are fundamentally different games when played with K&S v. controller when one takes into account the auto-aiming and other assistance mechanics baked into the game.

I don't know, I sometimes suspect that this is something that's waiting for some genius to solve it once and for all, on an engine/infrastructure-level. After which everybody will slap their foreheads and ask themselves how they tolerated releasing console interfaces on PC all those years.

What do I know, though

Like Hamlin said, think about HOW fundamentally different the two inputs are.

Take a typical ARPG, like Diablo 3.

With a mouse, you click and create a 2d point that is then translated into a 3d world coordinate. Assuming that coordinate is valid, that generates some sort of move and pathfinding action that will move your character to or near that destination. If the coordinate is not valid, usually the nearest valid point is selected.

With a controller, you input a vector, which takes your current position and starts modifying it. For example, in a console controlled ARPG, you can "run in place" when trying to move into a non-walkable space. You can't do that with a mouse, unless you have also coded some sort of "drive" mode with the mouse which I have seen a couple of games do, but everyone hates.

I think until controls and inputs undergo a fundamental change, there will still be problems with many game genres.

 

[Anthony Davis]

Anthony Davis Question: You know how many complaints there are about consolized user interfaces in PC versions of games. Do you think the industry is making any strides towards rectifying that? Is there a trend towards designing games with separate, per-platform interfaces in mind? I'm asking you about this since it seems to me that this is mainly a technical/programming issue.

I do think there are improvements being made.

Also, more and more PC gamers also have a controllers now too.

NO, NO, NO, NO.... NO!!!!

I understand where you are coming from, but to flat out reject a controller means you are also flat out rejecting some QUALITY games out there, like SR3 or SR4, or Sleeping Dogs. I have SR3 and Sleeping Dogs on the PC and they look great, better than console versions, perform amazingly, and with a controller, they play great.

However, when I play FO:NV, even though it supports a controller, I play on keyboard and mouse. A controller doesn't HELP the gameplay on New Vegas, at least for me.

 

[Roguey]

I don't have any problems with Saint's Row's mouse and keyboard controls. Precision aiming ftw, thumbstick ftl.

The most frustrating aspects of console->pc ports to me involve menus and that's largely a resolution issue.

 

[mindx2]

Anthony Davis Question: You know how many complaints there are about consolized user interfaces in PC versions of games. Do you think the industry is making any strides towards rectifying that? Is there a trend towards designing games with separate, per-platform interfaces in mind? I'm asking you about this since it seems to me that this is mainly a technical/programming issue.

I do think there are improvements being made.

Also, more and more PC gamers also have a controllers now too.

NO, NO, NO, NO.... NO!!!!

I understand where you are coming from, but to flat out reject a controller means you are also flat out rejecting some QUALITY games out there, like SR3 or SR4, or Sleeping Dogs. I have SR3 and Sleeping Dogs on the PC and they look great, better than console versions, perform amazingly, and with a controller, they play great.

However, when I play FO:NV, even though it supports a controller, I play on keyboard and mouse. A controller doesn't HELP the gameplay on New Vegas, at least for me.

Not sure you understand where my angst comes from. You see, I've got no hands to use a controller and those shoulder buttons are my bane.

 

[Brother None]

I understand where you are coming from, but to flat out reject a controller means you are also flat out rejecting some QUALITY games out there, like SR3 or SR4, or Sleeping Dogs. I have SR3 and Sleeping Dogs on the PC and they look great, better than console versions, perform amazingly, and with a controller, they play great.

Saint's Row 3 and Sleeping Dogs both play great with a controller. I have an X360 controller but I don't use it for anything other than platformers, racing or fighting games. I'm a big fan of different input methods, I don't get the point to obsessing over keyboard and mouse for everything when they're just not ideal for some genres, but for third-person shooters? Why wouldn't you use keyboard and mouse?

 

[Sensuki]

Depends on the Racing game. Keyboard and mouse was awesome for Need For Speed Underground. I won heaps of tournaments against people using joysticks and steering wheels using some shitty rubber dome osborne ps/2 keyboard lmao.

 

[Kane]

I understand where you are coming from, but to flat out reject a controller means you are also flat out rejecting some QUALITY games out there,[...]

I don't know how I should tell you

so I let these guys do it!

 

[Sensuki]

Marvelous.

 

[Brother None]

Depends on the Racing game. Keyboard and mouse was awesome for Need For Speed Underground. I won heaps of tournaments against people using joysticks and steering wheels using some shitty rubber dome osborne ps/2 keyboard lmao.

Haha, well I'm not actually a big racing game guy, definitely not competitive, but I do find the analog nature of sticks or steering wheels gives better control. That's what most people argue as far as I know.

Honestly, what I most prefer from the controller is that I can kinda lounge back when playing platformers. Gives me that feel I had when playing Megadrive (Genesis). I like it.

 

[Ninjerk]

Stupendous.

 

[Akratus]

I understand where you are coming from, but to flat out reject a controller means you are also flat out rejecting some QUALITY games out there,[...]

I don't know how I should tell you

so I let these guys do it!

What? You want a good console game? I can't imagine why.

 

[Anthony Davis]

Anthony Davis Question: You know how many complaints there are about consolized user interfaces in PC versions of games. Do you think the industry is making any strides towards rectifying that? Is there a trend towards designing games with separate, per-platform interfaces in mind? I'm asking you about this since it seems to me that this is mainly a technical/programming issue.

I do think there are improvements being made.

Also, more and more PC gamers also have a controllers now too.

NO, NO, NO, NO.... NO!!!!

I understand where you are coming from, but to flat out reject a controller means you are also flat out rejecting some QUALITY games out there, like SR3 or SR4, or Sleeping Dogs. I have SR3 and Sleeping Dogs on the PC and they look great, better than console versions, perform amazingly, and with a controller, they play great.

However, when I play FO:NV, even though it supports a controller, I play on keyboard and mouse. A controller doesn't HELP the gameplay on New Vegas, at least for me.

Not sure you understand where my angst comes from. You see, I've got no hands to use a controller and those shoulder buttons are my bane.

Sorry it took me so long to reply to this, busy PACKING and getting ready for BABBY.

Unless you are yanking me, I understand that having a handicap makes using a controller difficult or impossible and I feel for you and others who persevere through that. When I worked at Netscape, one of the key projects I worked on was accessibility, and believe it or not, myself, Josh, and may others at Obsidian are huge proponents of accessibility. That doesn't count for as much as it should since admittedly, we still have a long way to go.

We just need our Cyber Deck so we can shed the ways of the flesh.

 

[mindx2]

Anthony Davis Question: You know how many complaints there are about consolized user interfaces in PC versions of games. Do you think the industry is making any strides towards rectifying that? Is there a trend towards designing games with separate, per-platform interfaces in mind? I'm asking you about this since it seems to me that this is mainly a technical/programming issue.

I do think there are improvements being made.

Also, more and more PC gamers also have a controllers now too.

NO, NO, NO, NO.... NO!!!!

I understand where you are coming from, but to flat out reject a controller means you are also flat out rejecting some QUALITY games out there, like SR3 or SR4, or Sleeping Dogs. I have SR3 and Sleeping Dogs on the PC and they look great, better than console versions, perform amazingly, and with a controller, they play great.

However, when I play FO:NV, even though it supports a controller, I play on keyboard and mouse. A controller doesn't HELP the gameplay on New Vegas, at least for me.

Not sure you understand where my angst comes from. You see, I've got no hands to use a controller and those shoulder buttons are my bane.

Sorry it took me so long to reply to this, busy PACKING and getting ready for BABBY.

Unless you are yanking me, I understand that having a handicap makes using a controller difficult or impossible and I feel for you and others who persevere through that. When I worked at Netscape, one of the key projects I worked on was accessibility, and believe it or not, myself, Josh, and may others at Obsidian are huge proponents of accessibility. That doesn't count for as much as it should since admittedly, we still have a long way to go.

We just need our Cyber Deck so we can shed the ways of the flesh.

Also, even though this is the Codex... no yanking on this one :

My wife and I.

Spoiler

(and no, I'm not the snowman! )

 

[Kane]

welp that's a handicap alright

 

[Oesophagus]

posting a pic of your wife on the codex

very brave

 

[Rake]

posting a pic of your wife on the codex

very brave

This is the Codex, there's as many people going to wank to the snowman. Perverts and sinners, all of them.

Fixed.

 

[procrastinator]

This is the Codex, there's as many people going to wank to the librul. Perverts and sinners, all of them.

Fixed.

 

[mindx2]

posting a pic of your wife on the codex

very brave

Believe it or not, it's not the 1st time I've actually posted pics of myself or my wife. Which is kind of strange for me since I hate stuff like Facebook (don't have an account, don't want one), etc... I guess I just

my Codex bros.

 

[Spectacle]

View attachment 1925
My wife and I.
(and no, I'm not the snowman! )

At least the snowman looks properly domesticated, wearing a hat and a scarf and everything

 

[Delterius]

We don't do "likes" around here, we brofist, which is much more mainly and refined.

This is the Codex, there's as many people going to wank to him as to her.

 

[Delterius]

Some, it appears, are in denial.