Developer Story Time with Old Man Davis

[Snerf]

Anthony Davis

I have an odd question about the gaming industry. To be honest, I'm not sure you've been in it long enough to know about this, but as somebody who worked both in California and Texas perhaps you ran into something like it.

The question is: Are there, or were there in the past, regional rivalries within the US gaming industry? In particular, would you say that there is/was a California or "West Coast" games industry milieu that developers elsewhere in the United States may have resented?

Would that make Obsidian the Death Row Records of gaming?

 

[Anthony Davis]

Anthony Davis

I have an odd question about the gaming industry. To be honest, I'm not sure you've been in it long enough to know about this, but as somebody who worked both in California and Texas perhaps you ran into something like it.

The question is: Are there, or were there in the past, regional rivalries within the US gaming industry? In particular, would you say that there is/was a California or "West Coast" games industry milieu that developers elsewhere in the United States may have resented?

Game companies are primarily located in the following locations:

Southern California,
Central Texas
Washington state
Japan
Europe


So those are, off the top of my head, five big regions for game development. Obviously there are other areas, but they usually have a single studio or publisher.

I am not aware of any regional rivalries.

I am aware of genre rivalries though, most of them though are usually not of a "I hate this game company sort." For example, A lot of people at Obsidian pays attention to what the Witcher guys do. We also watch Bioware, and Bethesda. Despite what a lot of people here say, or even what I say, I buy almost everything those guys make, but you are always watching and following.

So... that's probably not the same thing, certainly it's nothing bitter, at least on my end.


That's probably not what you are looking for.


Thinking about it some more, obviously game companies in different areas do some things the same, but also do a LOT of things differently. Local and geopolitical culture plays a part on how companies are run, and how people behave in those cultures.

A personal observation, TimeGate, for example was primarily a production run shop, with producers calling most of the shots and programmers probably ranked second. Obsidian tends to follow the "design is law" management style, though our implementation of this has evolved over the years, gotten a lot better in my opinion. Both methods have strengths and weaknesses. A lot of American game development seems to focus on building good teams, but most still reward exceptional individualism. For example, I work with a UI programmer who is easily 3x as fast as any other programmer I have met, yet he doesn't make 3x as many mistakes. He is quickly getting noticed and appreciated, he helps raise the team.

Japan is a culture where they have a custom (I don't remember the phrase for this anymore) where you thank your boss everyday for allowing them to work hard, or something like that. Japan also has a rich and deep gaming history, and I would say that they lead the way in many game innovations. Japan culture, at least from what I have read, focus on building small, strong, and specialized teams - which fits their production style. While many of their games are iterative, there are still plenty of developers there that take risks an American game developer would never take. For Heaven's sake, they have an arcade game where you flip an actual table in anger.

If my history is correct, the European game developer market is one of the younger ones out there, and I am anxious to see where they go. Europe seems to have taken some notes from the American way of doing things, but are also very creative, more forgiving, and absolutely head over heels in love with RPGs. Poland, the Czech Republic, France, all of them have game companies producing solid and innovative work. The Witcher series alone is hands down one of the best and original RPG series and settings to come along in years.


That's also probably not what you are looking for...

I do know that there are some personal rivalries, but with the exception of IceFrog and whatshisname, most of them are only ironic rivalries that exist through their fans and in reality, are actually very friendly, like Colin and Josh... or MCA and Zeits.

 

[Infinitron]

Anthony Davis Well, what made me think of this is that I remember reading that when EA shut down Origin in 2004, they were originally planning to move Origin's entire staff from Austin over to California to continue development on Ultima X: Odyssey. I've been told that one reason that didn't work out for EA was because the Origin people felt that they were part of a cohesive Austin/Texas game development community and they didn't want to leave it. Earlier than that, you have things like Richard Garriott's experiences with California Pacific and Sierra.

In general, one can imagine that game developers from elsewhere in the US might see the West Coast game development culture as this unholy combination of lazy and bloated California "design is law" extravagance and EA-style corporate evilness. In other words, a lot like Hollywood.

 

[Zed]

For example, A lot of people at Obsidian pays attention to what the Witcher guys do. We also watch Bioware, and Bethesda.

My impression (formed by watching twitter connections) is that many people at Obsidian seem tight with Blizzard. I assume this is mostly due to the fact it's a CA mega-company and I'm sure there are friends and stuff there; not necessarily because of their games portfolio.

 

[Infinitron]

For example, A lot of people at Obsidian pays attention to what the Witcher guys do. We also watch Bioware, and Bethesda.

My impression (formed by watching twitter connections) is that many people at Obsidian seem tight with Blizzard. I assume this is mostly due to the fact it's a CA mega-company and I'm sure there are friends and stuff there; not necessarily because of their games portfolio.

They're in the same city

 

[Zed]

For example, A lot of people at Obsidian pays attention to what the Witcher guys do. We also watch Bioware, and Bethesda.

My impression (formed by watching twitter connections) is that many people at Obsidian seem tight with Blizzard. I assume this is mostly due to the fact it's a CA mega-company and I'm sure there are friends and stuff there; not necessarily because of their games portfolio.

They're in the same city

yes I know

 

[Anthony Davis]

For example, A lot of people at Obsidian pays attention to what the Witcher guys do. We also watch Bioware, and Bethesda.

My impression (formed by watching twitter connections) is that many people at Obsidian seem tight with Blizzard. I assume this is mostly due to the fact it's a CA mega-company and I'm sure there are friends and stuff there; not necessarily because of their games portfolio.

This is true. A lot of Obsidianites have friends and former coworkers at Blizzard. This relationship is probably found more on the Obsidian side than the Blizzard side because Blizzard gas a 100x more employees (slight hyperbole).

 

[Anthony Davis]

Anthony Davis Well, what made me think of this is that I remember reading that when EA shut down Origin in 2004, they were originally planning to move Origin's entire staff from Austin over to California to continue development on Ultima X: Odyssey. I've been told that one reason that didn't work out for EA was because the Origin people felt that they were part of a cohesive Austin/Texas game development community and they didn't want to leave it. Earlier than that, you have things like Richard Garriott's experiences with California Pacific and Sierra.

In general, one can imagine that game developers from elsewhere in the US might see the West Coast game development culture as this unholy combination of lazy and bloated California "design is law" extravagance and EA-style corporate evilness. In other words, a lot like Hollywood.

There are probably a few factors at play there:

1. EA has a rough reputation in the game industry
2. Austin is an amazing city
3. Even Austin is many times cheaper than LA. Imagine selling your 4 bedroom, 2000+ sq foot home in outer Austin, and moving to a tiny condo in LA or outer LA. Tough sell.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

For example, A lot of people at Obsidian pays attention to what the Witcher guys do. We also watch Bioware, and Bethesda.

My impression (formed by watching twitter connections) is that many people at Obsidian seem tight with Blizzard. I assume this is mostly due to the fact it's a CA mega-company and I'm sure there are friends and stuff there; not necessarily because of their games portfolio.

This is true. A lot of Obsidianites have friends and former coworkers at Blizzard. This relationship is probably found more on the Obsidian side than the Blizzard side because Blizzard gas a 100x more employees (slight hyperbole).

Obsidian should write an expansion for Blizzard. The Blizzard writers are great and all, but Obsidian would really shake up the WoW universe in much the same way as they did Star Wars and NWN with KOTOR2 and MotB.

 

[felipepepe]

I doubt that anyone could do worse than Blizzard's "Garrosh being a Dick Part 2" expansion...

 

[Infinitron]

Thanks.

Game companies are primarily located in the following locations:

Southern California,
Central Texas
Washington state
Japan
Europe

Isn't Montreal, Quebec glaringly absent from this list?

 

[Anthony Davis]

Thanks.

Game companies are primarily located in the following locations:

Southern California,
Central Texas
Washington state
Japan
Europe

Isn't Montreal, Quebec glaringly absent from this list?

That's where Bioware is, right? Is there any other company there?

But you are right, there are more Canadian game companies these days too.

 

[Infinitron]

That's where Bioware is, right? Is there any other company there?

But you are right, there are more Canadian game companies these days too.

The original Bioware is in Edmonton, although they do have a branch in Montreal now. The Mass Effect 4 guys.

The Quebec government subsidizes the local gaming industry which is why there are a ton of developers setting up shop there now.

 

[Duraframe300]

That's where Bioware is, right? Is there any other company there?

But you are right, there are more Canadian game companies these days too.

The original Bioware is in Edmonton, although they do have a branch in Montreal now. The Mass Effect 4 guys.

The Quebec government subsidizes the gaming industry which is why there are a ton of developers setting up shop there now.

Travis is currently also working in Montreal at Ubisoft.

 

[Kamoho]

I doubt that anyone could do worse than Blizzard's "Garrosh being a Dick Part 2" expansion...

What can change the nature of an orc?

 

[Abelian]

What can change the nature of an orc?

Finding out that his father is actually a vampire.

 

[Abelian]

Seems like Cleve had his own idea for a donut-based game.

I got a little sidetracked this week prior working on a little IPhone game called DAREDEVIL DONUT LAD that has kind of been my pet project to tinker with for a while. I usually toy with it when I am waiting for Grimoire to compile or run. It helps me to refresh Unity skills and learn about 4.3 features. It's a stupid little game but fun, a donut runner game collecting pastries and zipping between two platforms.