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Developer Story Time with Old Man Davis

Sannom

Augur
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
951
End Result, story is nothing spectacular (despite GeorgeZ writing...whcih was butchered i suppose)...and combat is undoubtably popamole. meh...i will pass.
The combat is nothing too incredible, but it's not popamole.

As for the story, nothing spectacular, but I quite liked the inter-linking of some choices in the ending, as well as the outcome of some of the 'evil' choices. Too bad we had no way of knowing what those results would be. That's probably why they had the consequences spelled out before the choice in the DLC.
 

abnaxus

Arcane
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Fiernes
End Result, story is nothing spectacular (despite GeorgeZ writing...whcih was butchered i suppose)...and combat is undoubtably popamole. meh...i will pass.
The combat is nothing too incredible, but it's not popamole.
method=get&s=johnathan-ivey-gif.gif
 

Duraframe300

Arcane
Joined
Dec 21, 2010
Messages
6,395
End Result, story is nothing spectacular (despite GeorgeZ writing...whcih was butchered i suppose)...and combat is undoubtably popamole. meh...i will pass.
The combat is nothing too incredible, but it's not popamole.

Better than D3

:troll:


In the end though, the worst thing about DS3 was that Square Enix made it a full price title with only a ~8 Mill budget.

~30 Dollar price range would have been a lot better and would have more positivly reflected on what was excpected of the game.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
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Messages
36,716
Pure quality? Not exactly. But that would be kinda like comparing pst to aves later games. There are three moments that stick out in ds iii. The reveal of the truth and especially odos refusal to learn about it and what that means for his actions. Jeyne's past and manafactured but still true beliefs and the conversation with the lion statue at the end of the dlc that has a really cool choice attached to it and i hope that pe will do something similiar.
I liked the convo with Dapper Old Gent.

Fair enough. Ziets himself admits Obsidian took the wrong approach to DS3:
Nathaniel Chapman would disagree with him. :M
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
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Messages
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Nathaniel Chapman would disagree with him. :M
What would he say?
http://spring.me/pedrothedagger/q/332233165202554491
I think that's part of the issue. I think the funadmental issue was that the game was developed at a pretty breakneck pace and there was little time to *get* people on the same page. I think it's pretty normal for people on a game team to not necessarily all "get it". Preproduction time, when there's enough of it, gets used partly to build the sense of the game among the team.

And to clarify, the pace of the game's development was the typical resources issue. It was a very ambitious project considering what we started with and where we wanted to end up.

Speaking of which, I don't think the biggest problem with DS3 was necessarily any of that. I think the biggest problem was that core, critical aspects of the game (camera, the multiplayer gameplay model, and the visual presentation of conversations) didn't have the polish or technical work necessary to make them competitive. That was the thing that ultimately got the game the scores it did and prevented people from getting as excited about it as they otherwise would have.
 

Anthony Davis

Blizzard Entertainment
Developer
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
2,100
Location
California
I've said this before, and I will say it again.

IMO, the biggest mistake we made with DS3 was the name - which set expectations.

If we had called Dungeon Siege Alliance, or Dungeon Siege Legends, or Dungeon Siege Legions, or something similar where other games have used that as a precedent for an APRG instead of the kind of RPG DS1 and DS2 are.

On a personal level, I think DS3 is great. Each of the 4 characters plays very differently from each other and have different personalities that come through in the writing.

The writing is not as deep as Torment or MotB, but the Ehb Sourcebook George wrote *IS* that deep, or deeper. We had a lot of great ideas for expansions, dlc, and sequels which I hope will still happen since the game actually did make quite a bit of money compared to its budget.

Out of all the games I have worked, the only ones I have played through to completion, as a gaming experience, are:

Dungeon Siege 3
Fallout New Vegas
Alpha Protocol

That's it.


I don't blame anyone but us for people who bought our game and expected something similar to DS1 or DS2. I think that was a reasonable expectation for people to have, but that is not what we were ever going to make.


As much as I enjoyed playing DS1 and DS2 (and I REALLY liked the PSP DS game), I personally thought the lore and storytelling was pretty thin and subtle. I think people remember the world and gameplay more than they remember the actual characters and story. I think George mined the games and lore and really created something amazing with the Ehb Sourcebook and I truly hope we or someone else get to revisit it someday (hopefully us).

I agree with Rougey, there are truly some great and memorable conversation and story elements in DS3 if you look for them, the Dapper Old Gent is definitely amazing.


Also, GZeit's comments are actually 100% true. We did have a lot more CnC planned that we had to scale back on or cut due to time and budget constraints. We originally wanted to make each character's playthrough far more personal than it turned out. Notice also that GZeits doesn't think the game is bad, wrong, or a failure, just that it turned out differently than our initial plans. You know the old saying about 'plans' anyway. GZeits is also not a political animal trying to be diplomatic or anything with his statements, he just has a wonderful way of explaining things in a very neutral yet pointed way.

GZeits is also correct, loot and character advancement went through many revisions, I know, because I am the one who coded most of it at every single revision. I think I did level up alone maybe... 6 times... including the UI.

But the fundamental systems were ROCK solid, which is why we were able to add a lot of cool stuff in the DLC. For example, I added enchanting in like... 3 days... maybe less, because of how the looting system was coded.


Our goal at Obsidian was to release a fun, bug-free game, that still had an engaging narrative.

If I had to grade us, I would probably say:

Gameplay (fun): B-
Bug Free Game: A
Engaging Narrative: C+

The narrative grade could be lower or higher, depending on who you played through as, and how much you "got into it".


I know I'm kind of all over the place, but to wrap of with the question on job roles:

GZeits is a Writer, and an amazing one at that. While I'm sure he can do it, he is not a designer.
John Gonzales, whom I love and miss, is a Writer as well, and an amazing one too - but totally different from GZeits. He had a different style and... tempo, for lack of a better word. He has since moved on to other companies.
Travis Stout is a game designer who just happens to be a very funny and clever writer as well. He is a very skilled and pragmatic game designer who can write very well.
 

Kane

I have many names
Patron
Vatnik
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Drug addicted, mentally ill gays HQ
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
I've said this before, and I will say it again.

IMO, the biggest mistake we made with DS3 was the name - which set expectations.

If we had called Dungeon Siege Alliance, or Dungeon Siege Legends, or Dungeon Siege Legions, or something similar where other games have used that as a precedent for an APRG instead of the kind of RPG DS1 and DS2 are.

Dungeon Siege: Tactics
 

Anthony Davis

Blizzard Entertainment
Developer
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
2,100
Location
California
I've said this before, and I will say it again.

IMO, the biggest mistake we made with DS3 was the name - which set expectations.

If we had called Dungeon Siege Alliance, or Dungeon Siege Legends, or Dungeon Siege Legions, or something similar where other games have used that as a precedent for an APRG instead of the kind of RPG DS1 and DS2 are.

Dungeon Siege: Tactics

Exactly.
 

Anthony Davis

Blizzard Entertainment
Developer
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
2,100
Location
California
Dungeon Siege: New Ehb :smug:

Hahahaha.

Oh well, I mean look, if this was a fair and just world, we would have has a sequel to Bloodlines already.

I think for Obsidian, releasing a game that was on time, under (a very small) budget, and as bug free and rock solid, was a huge win for us. It was a good experience for the whole team and it allowed them to develop skills which MOST game companies do not have, or are not very strong at:

Scope Management
Stability

The two games I am most proud of at Obsidian are the two that had the least fanfare:

DS3
SoZ

*shrug*
 

Infinitron

I post news
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
99,628
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I'm not badmouthing the game, Anthony Davis. It's just kind of a running gag here that every single game Obsidian makes is going to be an existing IP with the word "New <something>" attached.
 

tuluse

Arcane
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
11,400
Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
I've said this before, and I will say it again.

IMO, the biggest mistake we made with DS3 was the name - which set expectations.
I think a bigger problem is the name Obsidian, which set expectations. People don't expect a mostly linear action experience from you guys.

But I only played the demo and though it was boring, maybe the full game is better.
 

Anthony Davis

Blizzard Entertainment
Developer
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
2,100
Location
California
I'm not badmouthing the game, Anthony Davis. It's just kind of a running gag here that every single game Obsidian makes is going to be an existing IP with the word "New <something>" attached.

I didn't think you were, and I got the joke, and it's uh, mostly true. Hahahahahahaha.


I would love to work on someday the following games:

Vampire: New Bloodlines (or alternatively, New Vampire: New Bloodlines)
Fallout New Texas
Star Trek: Into the New Darkness

(Once I get Star Trek btw, I will have completed my Nerd Trifecta, I will have worked on a DnD Game, a Star Wars Game, and all I lack is the Star Trek game).
 

Anthony Davis

Blizzard Entertainment
Developer
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
2,100
Location
California
I've said this before, and I will say it again.

IMO, the biggest mistake we made with DS3 was the name - which set expectations.
I think a bigger problem is the name Obsidian, which set expectations. People don't expect a mostly linear action experience from you guys.

But I only played the demo and though it was boring, maybe the full game is better.

I think for some, yes, that is true.

However, Interplay published a slew of deep RPG games AND they published BG Dark Alliance and that game did very well.

The world may never know, but I still like DS3. I think it is visually stylish, has good beats, some neat environments, SOME neat characters (like the D.O.G.), and 4 unique and fun characters to play as. I would like it even if I had not worked on it.
 

serch

Magister
Joined
Mar 13, 2006
Messages
1,392
Location
Behind mistary, in front of conspirancy
we need a blade runner rpg

Yeap, or at least a game in that universe. I don't think you need to be an actual bladerunner.

The PnC Adventure game from WestWood was pretty great at the time, probably still pretty great today.

Yes, that game was pretty charming, plenty of C&C if I remember correctly for that kind of game. It also proved that licensing the setting should be possible
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
36,716
I would only want a new Bloodlines if Josh Sawyer works on systems. After all he thinks it's shit.


Also Avellone on writing just so he can stick it to Brian again. It is one of my wishes that the mad money they'll undoubtedly make from Eternity will allow them to self-fund a PC exclusive modern-day urban fantasy role playing action game in addition to an Eternity sequel Josh can safely skip since I imagine no one wants to stay in the boring Western Europelandia ghetto forever.
 

Anthony Davis

Blizzard Entertainment
Developer
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
2,100
Location
California
I would only want a new Bloodlines if Josh Sawyer works on systems. After all he thinks it's shit.

Lord Sawyer said:
I think Bloodlines' combat is a lot worse than Oblivion's, personally.

gfcripes.gif

Hahahahaha, come on, can anyone here honestly tell me that the combat in Bloodlines was amazing? It was serviceable at best. What that game had by the truckload was ATMOSPHERE.

Josh may be right about the combat, but that doesn't take away the fact that Bloodlines that it is still an amazing game.
 

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