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Developer Story Time with Old Man Davis

Anthony Davis

Blizzard Entertainment
Developer
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
2,100
Location
California
You are both right.

As a customer, you should not have to care about the quality of the product or the problems creating the product.

As a member of the gamer culture, understanding how things work will help you appreciate your culture more... at least in my opinion.

I understand all that you are saying but ultimately, your position is sort of like this: You want to make and sell donuts. So you talk to various suppliers to get the necessary supplies to make and sell donuts. Later on, a customer walks up to you and says "my donuts taste like shit". You check out your supplies and find out that one or more of your suppliers gave you bad eggs or bad flour. Or maybe your owen malfunctioned and didn't bake them properly. Then you tell the customer "hey, you are right but it wasn't my fault, see, the supplier gave me bad flour/my owen is malfunctioning. And this is a money business so it's okay that I sold you shitty donuts. You should try to see it from my perspective".

The difference in the case of the donut seller is that health inspectors would turn up at your door the next day and you would be in deep trouble.

I agree with the poster saying that your stance is very American. Game industry is one of the most underdeveloped and undervalued industries where neither customer rights or value of labour is properly recognized. I see the wisdom in seeing how the industry works from within and adjusting to make the best of it as a developer in the system, but applying the same rationale to the customer's end is borderline criminal. If the game industry were half as developed as any consumer goods based industry, we wouldn't be getting half the downright lying PR bullshit that we often get or con-man products like Aliens: Colonial Marines that literally practice conning.

Of course, that is not exclusive to games industry, that's basically how the world runs but the games industry have the distinction of lacking a codified consensus on industry standards, regulations and customer rights.

Rereading that, I did not word that correctly. Let me clarify:

As a customer you should expect to receive a quality product. Customers don't care about supply chain problems or production problems, and they shouldn't have to.


Worrying about why a product might not be quality is not the concern of a customer.
 

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
Patron
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Messages
1,874,786
Location
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Grab the Codex by the pussy
Roguey's only allowed to hate and ridicule people when granted dispensation by the archmatrons, so she squeaks it in wherever she can.
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Messages
24,986
"Nevermind that the PC is the reason his company exists in the first place, and that they have many loyal PC fans."

This is some of the biggest bullshit I've ever read. Sadly, you aren't the first to delusionally pretend it is true. Betehsda exists b/c they make games customers want to play. And, no, they don't have 'loyal' fans - OPC or otherwise. And, I say that despite LOATHING Betehsda and their shitty games.
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
Joined
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Messages
24,986
They aren't loyal to Bethesda. They are loyal to themselves and Betehsda games are enjoyable to them. It is all about their selfish needs. Don't pretend that loyalty is the same as selfishness.
 

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
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Location
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Grab the Codex by the pussy
Don't pretend that loyalty is the same as selfishness.

Actually, it's debatable that loyalty is nothing more than a social construct based on selfishness. See: "no true altruism" et alia.

In any case, the devoted fan's selfish interests are sometimes indistinguishable from loyalty, so I don't need to pretend.
 

Horus

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2,846
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Istanbul-Constantinople-Byzantium-Piece of land.
As a consumer, I can't accept that excuse. Publishers should learn to cope with rainy days and realize that in the long run, developing a reputation for high quality products is worth it. Making high quality products is their job, it's why they exist.
Since when does high quality products = Profit?
Most profitable ventures has always been about hype.Marketing is important when selling product,quality only makes it easier to market it.

Remember your favorite band/singer/musician that made less money than justin bieber,Kesha and likes?Remember your favorite movie which made less than transformers?
All the media hype made people think that these below mediocre but marketable products must be good because everyone loves it.
Quality doesn't sell shit in today's world(sadly).

Anthony Davis can you tell us the starting budget of games that you worked in?
I can't find any information when it comes to the costs of VG developement.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
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Messages
99,623
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
As a consumer, I can't accept that excuse. Publishers should learn to cope with rainy days and realize that in the long run, developing a reputation for high quality products is worth it. Making high quality products is their job, it's why they exist.
Since when does high quality products = Profit?
Most profitable ventures has always been about hype.Marketing is important when selling product,quality only makes it easier to market it.

High quality product doesn't necessarily mean monocled, elite or intellectually challenging. It means high production quality, polished, finished games.
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Messages
24,986
"Well he is a true Biowarian"

yet, I buy a higher % of Obsidian and Troika games than BIO ones. Go figure. L0L


"Actually, it's debatable that loyalty is nothing more than a social construct based on selfishness. See: "no true altruism" et alia.

In any case, the devoted fan's selfish interests are sometimes indistinguishable from loyalty, so I don't need to pretend."

Nah. When i help those I care about (the few), I expect nothing in return. That's loyalty.

But, when I buy something, I better get soemthing I enjoy back in return for fuck sakes. That's not loyalty. That's selfishness.
 

Duraframe300

Arcane
Joined
Dec 21, 2010
Messages
6,395
Anthony Davis

I asked George a question


As someone who has worked with these guys full time at Obsidian in the past, though. Should we be worried? Also did you guys discuss MMO's too, even if just in a *what if* scenario?

No one at Obsidian ever discussed MMOs with me, even as a “what if” exercise. However, I think they considered online multiplayer projects in the past, so this is not an entirely unprecedented move.

Obsidian has a surprising number of developers who are hard-core MMO and multiplayer gamers, and as far as I know, those guys are the ones who are working on the MMO game. The Obsidian founders try to assign people to games that they are excited about, and I suspect that most members of the MMO team love that genre and are excited to be working on the project. Also, Feargus wouldn’t have signed the project if he didn’t feel confident that Obsidian could execute it well.

Since I don't know if George is allowed to answer that, can you tell us who those people might possible be?
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2006
Messages
33
"Actually, it's debatable that loyalty is nothing more than a social construct based on selfishness. See: "no true altruism" et alia.

In any case, the devoted fan's selfish interests are sometimes indistinguishable from loyalty, so I don't need to pretend."

Nah. When i help those I care about (the few), I expect nothing in return. That's loyalty.

It's not that you get something from the person you are helping, it's that you get a reward of some kind for helping them. This is usually in the form of a good feeling about yourself, but it is not always the case. Some people like the accolades and recognition, some have been conditioned by their elders/peers to have negative feelings if they do not help, and so on. This theory has even be extrapolated to a person or animal's genes.

Back on subject, I would like to also thank Anthony for the cool bit of reading. I am still waiting to see if his friend Mike Judge is the Mike Judge! If he is, tell him Idiocracy is heavily under rated, and that it may turn out that he is a better seer than Nostradamus. On the other hand, if he isn't that Mike Judge, tellem anyway!
 

Anthony Davis

Blizzard Entertainment
Developer
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
2,100
Location
California
People at Obsidian obviously have a great taste in CRPGs.
"The Standing Stones" is the first published RPG of EA (1983) and it's so rare that not even mobygames had it listed.
Fortunately, I still have the original flat folder that includes a very nice large map through all dungeon levels :obviously:

As do I!

I should post some pics or something of my collection...
 

Anthony Davis

Blizzard Entertainment
Developer
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
2,100
Location
California
Anthony Davis

I asked George a question


As someone who has worked with these guys full time at Obsidian in the past, though. Should we be worried? Also did you guys discuss MMO's too, even if just in a *what if* scenario?

No one at Obsidian ever discussed MMOs with me, even as a “what if” exercise. However, I think they considered online multiplayer projects in the past, so this is not an entirely unprecedented move.

Obsidian has a surprising number of developers who are hard-core MMO and multiplayer gamers, and as far as I know, those guys are the ones who are working on the MMO game. The Obsidian founders try to assign people to games that they are excited about, and I suspect that most members of the MMO team love that genre and are excited to be working on the project. Also, Feargus wouldn’t have signed the project if he didn’t feel confident that Obsidian could execute it well.

Since I don't know if George is allowed to answer that, can you tell us who those people might possible be?

I am not sure. By the time I left, a lot of people were coming down off of WoW, or had already quit it. There were a few hardcore EVE players...

It could be anyone.
 
Self-Ejected

HobGoblin42

Self-Ejected
Patron
Developer
Joined
Aug 25, 2012
Messages
2,417
Location
Munich
Codex 2013 Codex USB, 2014
As do I!

I should post some pics or something of my collection...

That's a good idea. Let us old gamers revel in memories. Nostalgia starts here, here a part of my game collection (Apple II, C64, Amiga and PC):
games.jpg
 

Duraframe300

Arcane
Joined
Dec 21, 2010
Messages
6,395
Anthony Davis

According to Feargus (in his russian panel) Obsidian stops its engine development. How do you feel about it? Was Dungeon Siege III as bugfree because of Onyx or the new QA process?
 

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