Darkwood (Survival horror)

[Nirvash]

The fucking pig shed

Spoiler

can you kill that?

 

[Lithium Flower]

The fucking pig shed

Spoiler

can you kill that?

Spoiler

Yeah, with molotovs and firearms. Alternatively, buy cables from Piotrek and go to the back of the shed, to the house where a villager hangs out. You can figure the rest out.

 

[Nirvash]

The pigs gangraped me...

 

[Hoggypare]

Just a question. Do you guys play on nightmare? I feel that the added tension is somewhat worth it, however the game lacks roguelike qualities (its strenghts lie completely elsewhere) and replaying all over again isn't as enjoyable. Now, since I died for the 3rd time, I am considering downgrading to hard mode (to see the story in full eventually) however I am curious what's your stance on that?

 

[Lithium Flower]

Just a question. Do you guys play on nightmare? I feel that the added tension is somewhat worth it, however the game lacks roguelike qualities (its strenghts lie completely elsewhere) and replaying all over again isn't as enjoyable. Now, since I died for the 3rd time, I am considering downgrading to hard mode (to see the story in full eventually) however I am curious what's your stance on that?

I used to play Nightmare exclusively during the alpha, back when Hard wasn't a thing. The game seems to be balanced for Hard, it was added for a reason. There are even items you can find that grant you extra lives but could also be traded for a lot of reputation, so playing on difficulty settings other than Hard leads you to miss out on some of that meaningful decision making.

 

[Nirvash]

Difficulty is a bit fucked up.

Unlimited lives are stupid up since you can just kamikaze and suicide at night for no loss.
Limited lives are also stupid since is so damn easy to die for random and cluncky combat.

The precedural stuff is... well same stuff in different places, how is the modding?

 

[Lagole Gon]

"You are disgusting, stinking MEAT! B...but come to my camp if you wanna, like..... hang out or something..."

 

[Lithium Flower]

Well, judging by the spike in sales and the fact that PC Gamer, RPS, Kotaku, Polygon, and other mainstream publications have reported on it, the PR stunt succeeded. The amount of people that seem to think this was a gesture of goodwill kind of hilarious. Don't get me wrong, Acid Wizards seem like real bros, but what they did looks like a cynical way to sell more copies of the game (not that there is anything wrong with that.)

Limited lives are also stupid since is so damn easy to die for random and cluncky combat.

Do tell what the "random and clunky" elements of the combat are. Not trying to shit on you, but I and others here might give you some advice.

"You are disgusting, stinking MEAT! B...but come to my camp if you wanna, like..... hang out or something..."

Wolfman is a bro

 

[Hoggypare]

Well, judging by the spike in sales and the fact that PC Gamer, RPS, Kotaku, Polygon, and other mainstream publications have reported on it, the PR stunt succeeded. The amount of people that seem to think this was a gesture of goodwill kind of hilarious. Don't get me wrong, Acid Wizards seem like real bros, but what they did looks like a cynical way to sell more copies of the game (not that there is anything wrong with that.)

Hey, if you trick people into playing a genuinely good game that is an act of goodwill. I guess this is an Acid Wizard with a chaotic good alignment.

Difficulty is a bit fucked up.

Unlimited lives are stupid up since you can just kamikaze and suicide at night for no loss.
Limited lives are also stupid since is so damn easy to die for random and cluncky combat.

The precedural stuff is... well same stuff in different places, how is the modding?

Because this is in fact not a rogue-lite. The mild randomization is there so there is some replayability, but the strenght of the game is in visuals, lore and atmosphere. Combat is clunky, yes, though by design to make you want avoid it (an important thing in a horror is to make running away a preferable option). Also it is by no means random and generally stacked in your favour. You have generally plenty resources. All my deaths were when I wanted to hog that ammo, not use that stacks of scraps for bear traps, etc.

 

[Nirvash]

Do tell what the "random and clunky" elements of the combat are. Not trying to shit on you, but I and others here might give you some advice.

The massive hit charge, same stamina for run and fight, i like the tunnel vision alot but sure add to the problem. (like, a sneaky big dog can kill you in 3 sec from full hp)
Hp and healing are also not very fleshed out.

 

[Lithium Flower]

Do tell what the "random and clunky" elements of the combat are. Not trying to shit on you, but I and others here might give you some advice.

The massive hit charge, same stamina for run and fight, i like the tunnel vision alot but sure add to the problem. (like, a sneaky big dog can kill you in 3 sec from full hp)
Hp and healing are also not very fleshed out.

So besides the regular attack with the slow wind up, you've got an alternate quick attack that is triggered by pressing the middle mouse button by default. Weapons like staves and shovels produce a thrust with fantastic reach, so the alternate attack is more useful than the primary attack for those weapons. You can also do a 2-hit combo by doing a regular attack immediately followed by an alt, which is great for overwhelming enemies, especially if you've a high damage weapon. You've also got a backstep which is bound to alt by default. You can control the direction of the backstep by turning your character to face the direction opposite of the one you want dodge to.

The combat was inspired by dark souls, hence the same stamina bar being used for both running and fighting. Otherwise stamina management wouldn't really make sense. Besides managing your stamina, it is important to memorize timings and ranges of attacks, as well as enemy attack patterns. Consider stick savages: their 3-attack flurry is very quick and has good reach, but has about a second or two of windup and recovery. So you are meant to bait a flurry out of them, then backstep out of its reach, then quickly close distance and attack, then either commit fully and stagger them to death or back away and rinse&repeat.

Then there are enemies that like to charge, like big dogs and chompers. If you have the timings of your own attacks down, you can try hitting them before just before they charge into you, but a safer way to deal with them is to turn your character to the side and backstep away from their charge, so that ideally you end up to their side or behind them. From that point on you can try to land a combo or run the fuck away, preferably the latter.

If you are just defending your hideout, however, molotovs are your friends. If you have a good defensive setup and a surplus of molotovs, you don't really have to engage in melee combat in most circumstances.

 

[Lithium Flower]

I had originally planned to scrap my playthrough, but fuck it. I decided to deal with my mistakes like a man.

By burying them.

At the end, Wolf was pretty tough. Tougher than I, maybe. Not that it matters. I'm getting out of these woods.

And now I've got an assault rifle.

 

[Stavrophore]

I had originally planned to scrap my playthrough, but fuck it. I decided to deal with my mistakes like a man.

By burying them.

At the end, Wolf was pretty tough. Tougher than I, maybe. Not that it matters. I'm getting out of these woods.

And now I've got an assault rifle.

See that you are in similar place as me, mind telling me how the fuck i find doctor? I only have hideout and church marked on my map in Old Woods. Do i have to search whole Old Woods to find him? I've returned the key to the Wolf, like week ago so i dont remember what exactly he said he would be in Old Woods. I want to get out of that location ASAP -the chompers are destroying my hideout like crazy, had banshee last night. Im staying still and quiet, but they keep breaking in. I guess times of uneventful nights are long gone with this location. Sure i have traps i have wood, and fuel but i will drain fast of them in few days if i had to stay there.

 

[Lithium Flower]

I had originally planned to scrap my playthrough, but fuck it. I decided to deal with my mistakes like a man.

By burying them.

At the end, Wolf was pretty tough. Tougher than I, maybe. Not that it matters. I'm getting out of these woods.

And now I've got an assault rifle.

See that you are in similar place as me, mind telling me how the fuck i find doctor? I only have hideout and church marked on my map in Old Woods. Do i have to search whole Old Woods to find him? I've returned the key to the Wold, like week ago so i dont remember what exactly he said he would be in Old Woods. I want to get out of that location ASAP -the chompers are destroying my hideout like crazy, had banshee last night. Im staying still and quiet, but they keep breaking in. I guess times of uneventful nights are long gone with this location. Sure i have traps i have wood, and fuel but i will drain fast of them in few days if i had to stay there.

Yeah, Old Woods nights are crazy. Just spent the night there. Fuck. Motherfuck.

Anyway, check your journal. It sounds like the Wolf told you to find him in his Old Woods hideout and gave you a cardinal direction ("northern edge of the old woods" etc.) Keep in mind that he is no longer camping in the middle of the woods, you want to find the Silo location where he hangs out.

There are many solutions to the key quest, however, and I believe it is entirely possible to find Doctor by searching on your own.

 

[Lithium Flower]

Do not open the door. Let us stick together.

Spoiler

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[Fronzel Neekburm]

Lithium Flower, I can't thank you enough for your excellent write up on this game! I was ready to give this a pass the second I read the word roguelike in the gog release thread (their curators have a hard-on for that shit), but your review made me reconsider. And that turned out to be arguably the best decision I ever made based on a forum post. This game is amazing! Darkwood brings back those feelings of fear and helplessness that I haven't felt since first playing Thief and System Shock 2... and that was quite some time ago. But despite being creepy as hell, unnerving and deeply unsettling, this game is soo much fun! I'm nowhere near the end, but it's probably safe to say that this will end up on my all-time-favourites list. It certainly is my favourite game of the year so far and I doubt anything else will even come close.

The fucking pig shed

Spoiler

can you kill that?

Spoiler

Yeah, with molotovs and firearms. Alternatively, buy cables from Piotrek and go to the back of the shed, to the house where a villager hangs out. You can figure the rest out.

Spoiler

Throwing a molotov was also my first idea, but it didn't work out too well and the pig took little to no damage at all. Then I tried the pitchforks that the friendly farmers had left behind for me, but that didn't work too well either, since I took waaaay too much damage from trying to get close to the pig and when I had figured out the best angle to hit the pig while not taking any damage myself, the pitchfork would degrade and break after 5 or so hits. Ultimately

Spoiler

I ended up killing the pig by hurling rocks at it.

 

[Lithium Flower]

I reached Chapter 2.

The feelings brought on by the exodus were unbelievable. Fear and exhilaration and relief and fear again. Every time I find a new piece of the puzzle, a part of me breaks and once again nothing makes sense.

Also, goddamn, this game communicates that the character has a partial memory of being in certain places incredibly well: the fog of war shows you the way a certain location looked like in the character's past. The result is very disorienting and eerie, exactly how one would feel after having suffered partial memory loss I would assume.

Looking back at Chapter 1, the difficulty curve is actually quite pleasant. Dry Meadow is the playground for beginners where it is very hard to properly fuck up, but it teaches you basic survival skills and prepares you for what comes next. Silent Forest is challenging and will fuck you if you don't get your survival skills and hideout defense strategies down, but is generous enough with resources that you don't feel too much pressure in staying there. Old Woods, however, are so hostile that they are actively forcing you out with the sheer onslaught and terror of its inhabitants that you simply won't last two nights there unless you are competent at survival, defense, and resource management - basically every major part of the game.

If I said that I "couldn't wait" to see what Chapter 2 has in store, I'd be lying. Because the game has become completely uncomfortable to play, to the point where I feel anxious at even thinking about starting it up again. But I feel compelled to...

Lithium Flower, I can't thank you enough for your excellent write up on this game! I was ready to give this a pass the second I read the word roguelike in the gog release thread (their curators have a hard-on for that shit), but your review made me reconsider. And that turned out to be arguably the best decision I ever made based on a forum post. This game is amazing! Darkwood brings back those feelings of fear and helplessness that I haven't felt since first playing Thief and System Shock 2... and that was quite some time ago. But despite being creepy as hell, unnerving and deeply unsettling, this game is soo much fun! I'm nowhere near the end, but it's probably safe to say that this will end up on my all-time-favourites list. It certainly is my favourite game of the year so far and I doubt anything else will even come close.

Thanks. Yeah, the game gets a lot of bad rap simply because its associated with the slew of shitty survival crafters and minecraft clones, and it is very hard to convince elitist faggots like you and I to give it a try without making autistic forum posts like I do. I'm jealous of those of you who are playing the game for the first time and did not fuck around in the alpha for 30 hours. Although I don't think any amount of experience can properly prepare one for the Old Woods.

How far in are you right now, by the way? Any favorite moments to share?

The fucking pig shed

Spoiler

can you kill that?

Spoiler

Yeah, with molotovs and firearms. Alternatively, buy cables from Piotrek and go to the back of the shed, to the house where a villager hangs out. You can figure the rest out.

Spoiler

Throwing a molotov was also my first idea, but it didn't work out too well and the pig took little to no damage at all. Then I tried the pitchforks that the friendly farmers had left behind for me, but that didn't work too well either, since I took waaaay too much damage from trying to get close to the pig and when I had figured out the best angle to hit the pig while not taking any damage myself, the pitchfork would degrade and break after 5 or so hits. Ultimately

Spoiler

I ended up killing the pig by hurling rocks at it.

Spoiler

You guys are crazy. Ok, here is the thinking man's solution: buy cables, explore around the perimeter of the pig shed until you find a house surrounded by decapitated pig heads, with torn cables running on the ground from it to the shed. Repair the cables, go inside the house (villager inside that tells you to fuck off but you can kill him), then turn on the generator and activate the lever to the max charge. I might be getting some details wrong but it shouldn't be too hard to figure out.

The main challenge with fighting the Sow is that, as Nirvash found the hard way, every pig becomes hostile. One of the early Alpha versions had the pigs sometimes follow the player all the way to their hideout, but their slow movement speed would lead to the player getting a huge head start and therefore the attack of the pigs would usually come as a surprise, as you would have already been doing other shit for the better part of a day and hanging out at the stove or workbench when these fuckers would stampede right inside and start nibbling on your toes. Shit was terrifying.

 

[Fronzel Neekburm]

How far in are you right now, by the way? Any favorite moments to share?

Spoiler

I just passed the nightmare sequence in the wrecked train.

I'd be hard-pressed to name just a few favourite moments. The whole game is golden and has been a barrage of favourite moments so far. I'll just name three that come to my mind:

- The moment I really fell in love with this game: The morning of Day 18. By that time, I had run out of gas for my generator. I had run out of boards to repair the doorway a wolf broke down during the night, neither did I have any boards to barricade said doorway, meaning that nothing would prevent any woodland critters from just walking right in. Not having any gas left also meant that I couldn't get that saw running, which would have enabled me to create direly needed boards out of those countless, useless logs that were clogging up my inventory. In other words, I was completely and utterly fucked... and I loved every second it! I did manage to pull through, though. Thanks, bear trap!

- The masochistic joy of picking your perks when you level up. "Hmm, which one of these positive perks sounds the least useless?" while at the same time getting penalised with a negative perk that will mean certain death (I made the mistake of levelling up very soon into the game, meaning that I would have to have the lights on during the nightfall, unless I wanted to get killed by ghosts)

- This one managed to make me genuinely sad: After retrieving the boy's violin from his parents' home, I was attacked by one (or more) of these split-headed things. I was already low on health, so I just made a run for it. I went to the church after that and gave the musician his violin. He thanked me and said something to the effect that I should come meet him at his parents‘ place. It wasn't until some time afterwards that it struck me that the house had been overrun with bloodthirsty mutants - which I had failed to properly take care of - and going there might be a bad idea for the kid. Sure enough, when I went back to the house to check up on him, I only found the mutant kneeling over the kid's eviscerated corpse. He was still carrying his violin.

Spoiler

One of the early Alpha versions had the pigs sometimes follow the player all the way to their hideout, but their slow movement speed would lead to the player getting a huge head start and therefore the attack of the pigs would usually come as a surprise, as you would have already been doing other shit for the better part of a day and hanging out at the stove or workbench when these fuckers would stampede right inside and start nibbling on your toes. Shit was terrifying.

Spoiler

Woah, killer pigs, would‘ve liked to see that! I killed them as soon as I came across them, so I have no idea if they would follow me around. If the devs removed it, it was probably an unintended bug, but still, I would love to see this put back in!

Speaking of the pig shed, here is another thing I really love about this game: The way how completely ambiguous it is about its morals. I'd have to replay this game to make a final judgment, but at the moment it seems to be doing this really well. I'll use SOMA as an opposite example: SOMA will try guilt trip you for making choices you have absolutely no alternatives for unless you want to progress. Things like having to literally pull the plug on a friendly NPC in order to get a door opened. It's supposed to make you feel bad, but it just made me angry at the designers. "Hey, don't try to wag your fingers at me in indignance, it's not like you left me any choice!" In Darkwood, I ended up making a lot of choices - especially early on - that felt perfectly normal at the time. A bunch of farmers getting uppity and attacking you for coming near their shed? I just smashed their faces with that board with nails and stoned their precious sow without thinking twice. That was before I ever set foot into the village, but once I actually saw firsthand the misery my casual killing spree had caused, I felt genuinely bad for what I did. I'm already curious how things will pan out on my second playthrough, but I'm still a long way off for that.

 

[Lithium Flower]

Spoiler

I just passed the nightmare sequence in the wrecked train.

I'd be hard-pressed to name just a few favourite moments. The whole game is golden and has been a barrage of favourite moments so far. I'll just name three that come to my mind:

- The moment I really fell in love with this game: The morning of Day 18. By that time, I had run out of gas for my generator. I had run out of boards to repair the doorway a wolf broke down during the night, neither did I have any boards to barricade said doorway, meaning that nothing would prevent any woodland critters from just walking right in. In other words, I was completely and utterly fucked... and I loved every second it! I did manage to pull through, though. Thanks, bear trap!

- The masochistic joy of picking your perks when you level up. "Hmm, which one of these positive perks sounds the least useless?" while at the same time getting penalised with a negative perk that will mean certain death (I made the mistake of levelling up very soon into the game, meaning that I would have to have the lights on during the nightfall, unless I wanted to get killed by ghosts)

- This one managed to make me genuinely sad: After retrieving the boy's violin from his parents' home, I was attacked by one (or more) of these split-headed things. I was already low on health, so I just made a run for it. I went to the church after that and gave the musician his violin. He thanked me and said something to the effect that I should come meet him at his parents‘ place. It wasn't until some time afterwards that it struck me that the house had been overrun with bloodthirsty mutants - which I had failed to properly take care of - and going there might be a bad idea for the kid. Sure enough, when I went back to the house to check up on him, I only found the mutant kneeling over the kid's eviscerated corpse. He was still carrying his violin.

Awesome. RE: musician, an implication you may have missed is that

Spoiler

he was killed by one of his own parents that transformed into a chomper (at least if you left them alive.) By returning the violin to him you led him to believe that his parents forgave him and that they were ready to welcome him back, hence him coming back to the house. Which makes the whole tale even more tragic.

Some commentary and plot theorizing

Spoiler

It seems that the progression of the disease is, at least in some cases, mild symptoms > madness > chomperification. For example, the Musician's parents were implied to have already been in late stages of disease, as he says that they started yelling at him for no reason and kicked him out of the house. At the same time, many characters seem to be mentally deranged and physically fine and vice versa. For instance, Wolf and Musician are perfectly lucid but physically hideous, whereas Piotrek, Bike Man, Savages, and several villagers are pretty fucking crazy but appear to be largely untouched by the disease. Then again it is unclear if everyone is afflicted by the same disease.

Interesting things I've noticed about the madmen: they seem to be trying to...wrap themselves around their own arms? This is visible with one of the insane villagers in the Village as well as a female savage near the shrine at Dry Meadow. Also, mad characters seem to be obsessed with religious symbolism. What the fuck is up with all the crucifixes? It is driving me crazy. Are they contemplating sacrifice?

Also, the Doctor is a fantastic character. While it is easy to hate him at the beginning, it is clear that the only reason why he dehumanizes the inhabitants of the woods is because it is the only way that he can stomach the fact that he could not save them. The dream sequence he puts you through pretty much sums it up. You can also see the examples of his humanity not only in his attempts curing the villagers but also in him giving Musician the mask or teaching Piotrek about rockets (I think that is implied since a toy rocket is found in the safe in his house.) Very complicated character and ultimately sympathetic IMO, possibly the sanest character left in the woods.

Spoiler

Speaking of the pig shed, here is another thing I really love about this game: The way how completely ambiguous it is about its morals. I'd have to replay this game to make a final judgment, but at the moment it seems to be doing this really well. I'll use SOMA as an opposite example: SOMA will try guilt trip you for making choices you have absolutely no alternatives for unless you want to progress. Things like having to literally pull the plug on a friendly NPC in order to get a door opened. It's supposed to make you feel bad, but it just made me angry at the designers. "Hey, don't try to wag your fingers at me in indignance, it's not like you left me any choice!" In Darkwood, I ended up making a lot of choices - especially early on - that felt perfectly normal at the time. A bunch of farmers getting uppity and attacking you for coming near their shed? I just smashed their faces with that board with nails and stoned their precious sow without thinking twice. That was before I ever set foot into the village, but once I actually saw firsthand the misery my casual killing spree had caused, I felt genuinely bad for what I did. I'm already curious how things will pan out on my second playthrough, but I'm still a long way off for that.

Spoiler

Oh yeah, for sure man. The key quest is, so far, the most interesting dilemma in the game and possibly one of the most interesting dilemmas in gaming. The Musician's route, while seemingly the "good" option, ends up being quite nasty as you saw. I won't spoil the other routes but things go quite a bit differently and not necessarily better. It really reminds me of the concept of Greater vs Lesser evil in the Witcher series, only done with much more ambiguity.

 

[Stavrophore]

To ppl in chapter 2

Spoiler

Where the heck i find planks, wood and nails in swamp? If i knew there was almost no wood there i would bring it with me :/

 

[sser]

I found the 2nd hideout, decided to hoof it back to the first to stay a night before transporting inventory over come morning.

Spend a couple of in-game hours prepping home defenses.

Obfuscated game logic kills me anyway because apparently my hideout is no longer a hideout.

Respawn in the 2nd hideout.

Now have to run back to the first hideout non-hideout and get all my gear and dismantle all those defenses and then run back to the second one.

 

[Lithium Flower]

I found the 2nd hideout, decided to hoof it back to the first to stay a night before transporting inventory over come morning.

Spend a couple of in-game hours prepping home defenses.

Obfuscated game logic kills me anyway because apparently my hideout is no longer a hideout.

Respawn in the 2nd hideout.

Now have to run back to the first hideout non-hideout and get all my gear and dismantle all those defenses and then run back to the second one.

Use the bike bell you get from the second hideout. It will allow you to transport the stuff between hideouts without actually having to do so yourself.

Not sure what you mean about your hideout no longer being a hideout. Does it not give you the protective substance protection anymore? If so, sounds like a bug.

 

[sser]

I found the 2nd hideout, decided to hoof it back to the first to stay a night before transporting inventory over come morning.

Spend a couple of in-game hours prepping home defenses.

Obfuscated game logic kills me anyway because apparently my hideout is no longer a hideout.

Respawn in the 2nd hideout.

Now have to run back to the first hideout non-hideout and get all my gear and dismantle all those defenses and then run back to the second one.

Use the bike bell you get from the second hideout. It will allow you to transport the stuff between hideouts without actually having to do so yourself.

Didn't see that. I basically got to the 2nd, repaired a door, put some boards on a window, then realized I could never properly defend myself and ran back to the first house (it was getting dark by the time I got there). I'll look for the bike next time I go in. Pretty sure I'll still have to go back and dismantle all the traps and shit, no?

 

[Lithium Flower]

I found the 2nd hideout, decided to hoof it back to the first to stay a night before transporting inventory over come morning.

Spend a couple of in-game hours prepping home defenses.

Obfuscated game logic kills me anyway because apparently my hideout is no longer a hideout.

Respawn in the 2nd hideout.

Now have to run back to the first hideout non-hideout and get all my gear and dismantle all those defenses and then run back to the second one.

Use the bike bell you get from the second hideout. It will allow you to transport the stuff between hideouts without actually having to do so yourself.

Pretty sure I'll still have to go back and dismantle all the traps and shit, no?

It might be useful to keep some fortifications behind since you might end up coming back but if you want to take absolutely everything out of it, sure.

As far as I know hideouts are not supposed to become non-hideouts. What do you mean by that?

 

[sser]

I found the 2nd hideout, decided to hoof it back to the first to stay a night before transporting inventory over come morning.

Spend a couple of in-game hours prepping home defenses.

Obfuscated game logic kills me anyway because apparently my hideout is no longer a hideout.

Respawn in the 2nd hideout.

Now have to run back to the first hideout non-hideout and get all my gear and dismantle all those defenses and then run back to the second one.

Use the bike bell you get from the second hideout. It will allow you to transport the stuff between hideouts without actually having to do so yourself.

Pretty sure I'll still have to go back and dismantle all the traps and shit, no?

It might be useful to keep some fortifications behind since you might end up coming back but if you want to take absolutely everything out of it, sure.

As far as I know hideouts are not supposed to become non-hideouts. What do you mean by that?

When I returned to the first hideout, the red goo that attacks when you're outdoors just came in and killed me.