KickStarter Darkest Dungeon AKA the Celerity Attention Whore Thread

[Celerity]

I find it really strange that DD became as popular as it did. Not that it's a bad game - on the contrary, it's quite fun to play for an hour for a day and then shelve till the next time you get a craving. However I think the level of difficulty of the game puts it in a strange spot where it's too hard for casuals and too easy for people familiar with RPGs or tactical games.

*snip*

So how can a game too hard for a typical casual mouthbreather and too easy for the hardcore RPG/tactics/turn-based combat crowd become this popular. Is it really because of the art and presentation?

Because the game is designed as video/reviewer fodder, which means aside from only looking good for about 5 hours, the difficulty is low but targets insecure hypercasuals who think they're hardcore. Result: People failing at this "hard" game, but as they can't actually lose they win, then feel good about themselves, then carry on with this "Git Gud" nonsense (when they haven't done so themselves yet). It doesn't help that the developers are both very secretive and don't understand math, so it's hard for them because they're insecure hypercasuals, and they won't let actual gamers bang on it first because they'll reach the same conclusion I did (seriously, sort posts oldest first... there were a LOT of Celerities in the past, back when that meant solid well informed info about the game instead of about the game's scams). More importantly though, that mass video campaign got it the casual audience in the first place. If not for that, the actual challenge gamers would get bored and leave, there'd be nothing, and this game would have died out before March of last year. In fact, I originally posited that was the reason they never fixed their balance. They knew making an actual hard game meant driving away all their moneys, so they started being deceptive so they could retain their casual audience. That was the most charitable theory, and given how much further they've went since it was probably the product of active malice from the start, but...

I am actually gonna argue in good faith here. Darkest Dungeon is fundamentally a good game but with misleading marketing. Let us abstract what it says it does and look at what it actually does.

Ok, let's look at the game:

The combat is just damage spam with class and skill stacking, everything else is clearly and obviously mathematically inferior, if not deliberately made useless.
The non combat part of the dungeons is a 3 step chart that is basically Rekt Hook cherry picking "Giant Alien Spiders" out of the hundreds of FTL events and copy pasting it everywhere. Blue option or GTFO.
The hamlet part could be replaced with a static leveling track and it'd make no difference aside from protecting people from themselves.

So completely ignoring all the shit with the devs, the community, etc, you have very little content that offers very little of interest.

Given how stretched out the content is, most people won't reach the endgame (like most people don't reach the endgame of facebook games) but that doesn't mean they can't get their money's worth by treating it has a casual experience.

That only fuels their narrative as:

You have few hours, you don't know.
You have many hours, you got your money's worth.
Few people will grind through the game, there are few completions, so it's hard.

Counterpoint: 21% of people have the achievement for doing one quest, so 79% aren't even interested in the game at all anymore.

P.S. I think you will find out that your definition of "real RPG" will be significantly different from most people on this site given your lack of knowledge about Fallout which is a sacred cow around here. http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=9453 here is a top of games made by the RPG Codex regulars. If you don't consider any of the games in the Top 20 "real RPGs" then this site probably isn't for you. Which isn't something wrong, you like what you like but when you starting using terms like "group think promoter" unironically while having an obvious lack of knowledge about the games that are highly regarded around here, it is hard not to make fun of you and generally disregard what you say. Also, subcultures generally frown upon outsiders embracing their language in a wrong manner then thinking they are owed an explanation. Do try to be more humble, you aren't owed anything by anyone here.

I remark about "groupthink promoter" because people freak the fuck out about Fallout 1-2 (which I never said anything bad about, beyond assuming the entire series was Bethesda made). They also freak the fuck out about Divinity, when I blasted it for being a poser hardcore game full of bugs. And the thing about it is, my criticisms started out mild and instead of pointing out that I had a version from a little over a month after release and it got better since then they just mindlessly raged, which just proved I was right because they could offer no counterpoints until I finally found someone reasonable and dragged actually useful infomation out. It's not even about games, anyone who goes against what they are informed they should think gets swarmed immediately from all sides.

Also, from looking at the list it seems like most people here are just caring about story, or at least more than game mechanics. That's not necessarily bad, but it's not what I'm looking for. I see few games on that list I know have good mechanics, so real RPG or not I am not so impressed. For example, Baldur's Gate. I was only interested in the commentary of the guy running the thread, the actual game part was just grinding on trash and a very predictable story. I forget who made the thread, but he's the one doing a solo Insane run. I do have the actual game somewhere, but after seeing that I am significantly less interested in it.

Interesting tactical combat/mechanics are what compels me. Anything else is secondary, but not unimportant.

 

[Bubbles]

Fallout 1-2 (which I never said anything bad about, beyond assuming the entire series was Bethesda made)

 

[Suicidal]

Because the game is designed as video/reviewer fodder, which means aside from only looking good for about 5 hours, the difficulty is low but targets insecure hypercasuals who think they're hardcore.

BTW I've heard an interesting thing while watching one of those DD streams. Apparently the devs were stalking streamers who were playing DD and made lots of recorded quotes narrated by the same guy who did the in-game narration, unique for each streamer (based on what the streamer does/did and all the dank maymay nonsense he spewed and etc.) and then mailed them out to the streamers, in order to get them to stream the game more I guess.

The guy was having a conversation with a member of the dev team on stream and the dev told him that they have been doing this for several months and recorded like 900 unique lines or something.

 

[Celerity]

And you fucks are still obsessed about that even after I finally forced a correction out of you. Do you see me going full retard on the people who were Xulimaing incorrectly? Nope.

 

[Celerity]

Because the game is designed as video/reviewer fodder, which means aside from only looking good for about 5 hours, the difficulty is low but targets insecure hypercasuals who think they're hardcore.

BTW I've heard an interesting thing while watching one of those DD streams. Apparently the devs were stalking streamers who were playing DD and made lots of recorded quotes narrated by the same guy who did the in-game narration, unique for each streamer (based on what the streamer does/did and all the dank maymay nonsense he spewed and etc.) and then mailed them out to the streamers, in order to get them to stream the game more I guess.

There's no apparently about it. If you look at the audio companies Twitter, you will see literally hundreds of individual tweets for each one, followed by retweets of the inevitable so amazing etc. The funny thing is I heard one and my first question is "Wait, what? That was Wayne June?" Because he sounds NOTHING like how he does in the game. It's mostly anyone that ever streamed Derpest, I also seen quite a few people I'm pretty sure never did. The motive is pretty obvious. "Where is that from?" "Derpest Dungeon." *people look at Derpest Dungeon*

 

[Ludo Lense]

I am actually gonna argue in good faith here. Darkest Dungeon is fundamentally a good game but with misleading marketing. Let us abstract what it says it does and look at what it actually does.

Ok, let's look at the game:

The combat is just damage spam with class and skill stacking, everything else is clearly and obviously mathematically inferior, if not deliberately made useless.
The non combat part of the dungeons is a 3 step chart that is basically Rekt Hook cherry picking "Giant Alien Spiders" out of the hundreds of FTL events and copy pasting it everywhere. Blue option or GTFO.
The hamlet part could be replaced with a static leveling track and it'd make no difference aside from protecting people from themselves.

So completely ignoring all the shit with the devs, the community, etc, you have very little content that offers very little of interest.

Except the game doesn't start with "Get x classes and spec them this way to win". Most people will need between 10-20 hours maybe even more to figure out the most overpowering team strats. Moreover you don't even need to figure it out since, has popeamole II said, there are viable non-damage team strats that can beat the final dungeons.

From a hardcore perspective, sure, it is shallow. But from a casual perspective it is par for the course in terms of content and interest.

That only fuels their narrative as:

You have few hours, you don't know.
You have many hours, you got your money's worth.
Few people will grind through the game, there are few completions, so it's hard.

Counterpoint: 21% of people have the achievement for doing one quest, so 79% aren't even interested in the game at all anymore.

Please stop with paraphrase like "only fuels their narrative". It makes you seem emotionally invested rather than rationally. 99% of people will just roll their eyes.

Achievements are not a good measure for this sort of thing due to the fact that they are usually not implemented at the start of EA. People like to think that when it goes gold is when the game spikes but the EA access waves are the ones that carry the most importance.

(I just took a look, both Age of Decadence and Underrail suffer from similarly low achievement numbers. Both had extensive EAs).

But in general people don't play the games they buy on steam, it is a known issue. Only 40% of people have the "create something via alchemy,smithing and leatherworking" in Skyrim.

I remark about "groupthink promoter" because people freak the fuck out about Fallout 1-2 (which I never said anything bad about, beyond assuming the entire series was Bethesda made). They also freak the fuck out about Divinity, when I blasted it for being a poser hardcore game full of bugs. And the thing about it is, my criticisms started out mild and instead of pointing out that I had a version from a little over a month after release and it got better since then they just mindlessly raged, which just proved I was right because they could offer no counterpoints until I finally found someone reasonable and dragged actually useful information out. It's not even about games, anyone who goes against what they are informed they should think gets swarmed immediately from all sides.

Also, from looking at the list it seems like most people here are just caring about story, or at least more than game mechanics. That's not necessarily bad, but it's not what I'm looking for. I see few games on that list I know have good mechanics, so real RPG or not I am not so impressed. For example, Baldur's Gate. I was only interested in the commentary of the guy running the thread, the actual game part was just grinding on trash and a very predictable story. I forget who made the thread, but he's the one doing a solo Insane run. I do have the actual game somewhere, but after seeing that I am significantly less interested in it.

Interesting tactical combat/mechanics are what compels me. Anything else is secondary, but not unimportant.

Your assumption regarding Fallout is like going into a film club saying Terminator is terrible because you watched Genisys, not knowing about 1 and 2. Combined with your prickly personality you immediately become a punchline. We live in the google age and you can't be bothered to read up on Fallout when people start making fun of you because of your assumption. Instead you act indignant and offended that it wasn't immediately explained to you.

This place doesn't advertise, people come it and there is a bit of a trial by fire (all the forums open up after a year). Nobody cares that you are not impressed. Acting like an entitled whiner that thinks he can do no wrong and slinging insults left and right in every post will...well it will get you watchwitzed and tagged pretty fast. If you don't like it here you can leave right away, even better you can contact the Management and they will nuke your account, deleting every single one of your posts. Effectively erasing your presence here.

I am telling you this because maybe there is a part of your rational brain that can understand that you haven't been acting cool. You seem intelligent if somewhat obsessive.

By the way, I don't understand why you classify Divinity: Original Sin has hardcore. Every trailer talks about choices and things like the fact that there are over 100 spells. Old School is not synonymous with hardcore. I find your ire with Divinity misplaced to say the least.

Also you seem to have some serious lack of empathy for so called "casuals". I have my own issues with the concept and the industry but surely you must understand that some people can barely play 5-10 hours a week due to responsibilities, jobs, families and whatever else life throws at adults. Playing something for 1337 hours in a year is the outlier....the extreme outlier.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

While I don't think the flaws make the game *quite* as bad as Celerity makes it out to be, his complaints are valid.

The way people defend kickstarter games from criticism is hilarious. Someone will pay $60 for Hack-n-Slash 3 and be like "Eh, I like it but you're entitled to your opinion" but when they spend $20 "investing" in a Kickstarter game suddenly it's like you punched their mom. The cognitive dissonance over Darkest Dungeon is overwhelming. I lol at people saying they think it was worth twenty bucks to hear the narrator. Really??!?

"Oh man you have to play this game, it has the most amazing narration!" -Said No One Ever. Except maybe about The Bard's Tale remake. RIP Tony Jay.

 

[Metro]

I lol at people saying they think it was worth twenty bucks to hear the narrator. Really??!?

These are the same people who pay $60 for the ~8 hour long on-rails Bioshock Infinite for the 'story.'

 

[Celerity]

Except the game doesn't start with "Get x classes and spec them this way to win". Most people will need between 10-20 hours maybe even more to figure out the most overpowering team strats. Moreover you don't even need to figure it out since, has popeamole II said, there are viable non-damage team strats that can beat the final dungeons.

From a hardcore perspective, sure, it is shallow. But from a casual perspective it is par for the course in terms of content and interest.

No, it does. Once you get past the wtf is this and how does everything work that's exactly what it is. And 5 hours is the high limit. If you check Steam forums now, sort by oldest and look at Feburary posts it's full of people with less than 5 hours complaining it's hard or more than 5 complaining it's easy. I didn't post anything at all until I had completed my run and I already seen people were saying the same things I was thinking.

Now, the game's so easy you can potentially succeed in spite of it by not being punished for your mistakes but that's not the same as viable (he also had multiple teams get murdered, so he clearly wasn't doing that well, given that this game has so many safeguards nothing aside from that one final boss attack or intentional suicide should be killing anyone as all other death either doesn't happen or gets prevented).

Now people coming in with misinformed misconceptions might not figure this out. All they know is that 1: The game is allegedly hard. 2: They should use these classes. 3: They're struggling. And they lack critical thinking skills so they don't realize 3 is because of 2 being bad advice, instead of 1 being true. This is also reflected in reviews, yes there's still RNG complaints (from people who ignore this giving RNG many more chances against them) but there's also plenty of people, even recently that are figuring out the game's shallow and one dimensional mechanics.

It is also worth noting at this point that despite the game being very highly ranked on the sales list since its release, Steamspy does not show any real post release increase. And given the other problems I haven't focused much on (shoddy translations, crash bugs, etc), it would not surprise me if there were a large volume of refunds as I honestly expected the game would have 700k users or more instead of being the same number it left the holiday sale in (and that was 2 weeks BEFORE release).

Please stop with paraphrase like "only fuels their narrative". It makes you seem emotionally invested rather than rationally. 99% of people will just roll their eyes.

But narrative is correct. They rather ironically did a narrative vs truth thing at full indie, except their narrative, their explanation for how things are happening does not match the truth. And their narrative focuses on dismissing criticisms so that the developers can maintain their egos, so...

Achievements are not a good measure for this sort of thing due to the fact that they are usually not implemented at the start of EA. People like to think that when it goes gold is when the game spikes but the EA access waves are the ones that carry the most importance.

And that's exactly why it's relevant. In most games, achievements are there from the beginning. So there will be people that buy games and don't start them yet or at all, people that only do a few hours, etc. Going by Steamspy, something like 70% of users quit Derpest within 5 hours. So it follows then that if there's an achievement that can be gotten in 1 hour, a significant number of people would have it (as 80% of users haven't quit yet) and achievements reflect that. Here, they were added on release. So you look at easy "tell" achievements, the sort of thing you get for no effort if you attempt the game at all, and that's a gauge of how many people returned or are coming in after release (I didn't use the tutorial as an example as people do not necessarily make new saves and most probably did not).

And see my previous comment about sales. Derpest was rank 120-300, going in the 2 digits when it was on sale. Since it was released it's been 2-15. So user wise, it is spiking (and then there's the not actually increasing user count).

(I just took a look, both Age of Decadence and Underrail suffer from similarly low achievement numbers. Both had extensive EAs).

But in general people don't play the games they buy on steam, it is a known issue. Only 40% of people have the "create something via alchemy,smithing and leatherworking" in Skyrim.

Underail's tell achievements have about 65%, which is consistent with not everyone having started the game yet.

AoD has 60%.

See, it's not a case of people not "coming back" because achievements were there (or if they were added on release, people did come back and try the release version).

Skyrim is not a good example because it's been on multiple free weekends which breaks user/achievement stats.

Your assumption regarding Fallout is like going into a film club saying Terminator is terrible because you watched Genisys, not knowing about 1 and 2. Combined with your prickly personality you immediately become a punchline. We live in the google age and you can't be bothered to read up on Fallout when people start making fun of you because of your assumption. Instead you act indignant and offended that it wasn't immediately explained to you.

Seriously, just quit it with the Fallout shit. There's only so many times I can say MISTAKE MOTHER FUCKER before YOU seem obsessive. Researching a game properly takes hours, and I won't do it because a random on the net insults me.

Any further remarks about Fallout 1 and 2 directed at me will be ignored.

This place doesn't advertise, people come it and there is a bit of a trial by fire (all the forums open up after a year). Nobody cares that you are not impressed. Acting like an entitled whiner that thinks he can do no wrong and slinging insults left and right in every post will...well it will get you watchwitzed and tagged pretty fast. If you don't like it here you can leave right away, even better you can contact the Management and they will nuke your account, deleting every single one of your posts. Effectively erasing your presence here.

I am telling you this because maybe there is a part of your rational brain that can understand that you haven't been acting cool. You seem intelligent if somewhat obsessive.

I came here only because of links from others (first the Xulima mod support thread, then the Obsidian vs Derpest post). And yes I'm aware of the groupthink shit. Yes, piling on and doing the tag and watchwitz shit is groupthink. Know what isn't? I piss someone off, that person says something, and we go back and forth without the swarming or dumbfuckery.

By the way, I don't understand why you classify Divinity: Original Sin has hardcore. Every trailer talks about choices and things like the fact that there are over 100 spells. Old School is not synonymous with hardcore. I find your ire with Divinity misplaced to say the least.

Also you seem to have some serious lack of empathy for so called "casuals". I have my own issues with the concept and the industry but surely you must understand that some people can barely play 5-10 hours a week due to responsibilities, jobs, families and whatever else life throws at adults. Playing something for 1337 hours in a year is the outlier....the extreme outlier.

Divinity was portrayed that way, the problem is instead of getting a "Souls" feel it seemed like a "Souls poser", made by someone who had no idea what that style was like. And I complained about bugs, one dimensional railroading mechanics, and linear progression and narrative.

As for casuals, I'm not offended they exist, or that there are games for them. What does offend me is posers, and there's a lot of casuals posing as hardcore because they won a game they can'[t lose, and a lot of casuals keeping the game in its current trivial imbalanced state because it's all they can handle and a lot of honest casuals who are asking for the "difficulty" even lower because they confused tedium with it.

Unlike most here, I don't rage about Skyrim or whatever. Also unlike most here, I don't play Skyrim. I think I have 5 minutes on my account, and that was so I could leave a negative review of paid modding (which didn't work, because I had the game from a free weekend and did not actually buy it).

I just want good, honest hardcore RPGs, and as long as they exist and I can enjoy them (and bullshit like the Derpest Drama isn't happening) I don't really care what else is going on. Games like Skyrim can keep being mainstream, I'm not the fucking RPG police.

Don't fuck with me and I don't give a fuck. Unfortunately, these constant conflicts portray a rather misleading impression of my personality.

And as for the hour count, when I say casual I mean people who will not learn regardless of hour count. All not gaming much does means is that you will get x hours in a game over a longer period of real world time. Being busy doesn't make you stupid. Hell, I'm busy and haven't gamed much (I'm sure idiots will claim I'm stupid though). I mastered the game in 5 hours, so the difference is that the 5 hours takes half a week or more. That's it.

While I don't think the flaws make the game *quite* as bad as Celerity makes it out to be, his complaints are valid.

The way people defend kickstarter games from criticism is hilarious. Someone will pay $60 for Hack-n-Slash 3 and be like "Eh, I like it but you're entitled to your opinion" but when they spend $20 "investing" in a Kickstarter game suddenly it's like you punched their mom. The cognitive dissonance over Darkest Dungeon is overwhelming. I lol at people saying they think it was worth twenty bucks to hear the narrator. Really??!?

"Oh man you have to play this game, it has the most amazing narration!" -Said No One Ever. Except maybe about The Bard's Tale remake. RIP Tony Jay.

It really is. Indie games in general provoke a more personal reaction, but this one just blows all of them away. I mean I've went on forums for indie games I was researching and calmly explained what I was looking for, what flaws bug me etc and even when I was being mildly critical of the game no one lost their cool and attacked me. I bought that game, incidently despite my apprehensions. Obviously if I swore and carried on like I do when dealing with idiots I'd have not gotten a positive reaction, but reasonable people can deal with reasonable criticism. There's just no such thing on Derpest.

 

[Celerity]

Seriously, can we get rid of this Watchwitz shit? All it's doing is bugging out and making me double post everything. If you want more Celerity Son you can just ask.

 

[Mustawd]

Celerity why do you hate Fallout 1 and 2?

 

[Ludo Lense]

Well I tried to be the Celerity whisperer but you can't argue with megalomania. After this post I am done here.

No, it does. Once you get past the wtf is this and how does everything work that's exactly what it is. And 5 hours is the high limit. If you check Steam forums now, sort by oldest and look at Feburary posts it's full of people with less than 5 hours complaining it's hard or more than 5 complaining it's easy. I didn't post anything at all until I had completed my run and I already seen people were saying the same things I was thinking.

Either stuff got deleted or you are factually wrong. It took 2 minutes to check the forums from february. 70% is questions 20% is that the game is too hard and 10% is misc stuff (artwork, suggestions etc.)

Now, the game's so easy you can potentially succeed in spite of it by not being punished for your mistakes but that's not the same as viable

No. That is exactly what it means. And since you seem the hate the searching for things:

viable
ˈvʌɪəb(ə)l/
adjective

1. capable of working successfully; feasible.

If a team can finishing the final dungeon then it is viable by definition. If something succeeds at its intended purpose then it is viable. It may not be perfect and there is room for improvement but that doesn't not mean it is not viable.

Going by Steamspy, something like 70% of users quit Derpest within 5 hours.

The average and median time totals are well within reasonable bounds in comparison to most games. 7 minutes average is quite decent.

(I just took a look, both Age of Decadence and Underrail suffer from similarly low achievement numbers. Both had extensive EAs).

But in general people don't play the games they buy on steam, it is a known issue. Only 40% of people have the "create something via alchemy,smithing and leatherworking" in Skyrim.

Underail's tell achievements have about 65%, which is consistent with not everyone having started the game yet.

AoD has 60%.

See, it's not a case of people not "coming back" because achievements were there (or if they were added on release, people did come back and try the release version).

Skyrim is not a good example because it's been on multiple free weekends which breaks user/achievement stats.

This is why I don't like the achievements argument, it is heavily based on WHEN the achievements came combined with when the game spiked. Underrail and AoD started spiking towards the end and during release because that is when they started selling it more aggressively (you heard more about close to release). Darkest had its spike at the start and then a few more twitch related ones. The Nuclear throne roguelite was a game similar in development to DD (big EA releases, small gold release) and only 40% got "Die" achievement. There are just too many factors to take achievements at face value and classifying the data properly requires guesswork.

Seriously, just quit it with the Fallout shit. There's only so many times I can say MISTAKE MOTHER FUCKER before YOU seem obsessive. Researching a game properly takes hours, and I won't do it because a random on the net insults me.

Any further remarks about Fallout 1 and 2 directed at me will be ignored.

It wasn't about Fallout itself but about your counter reaction and others reaction back. You seem to be very prickly about moments where you made mistakes. Also 'the hours of research" is a cop out and you know it.

..Yes, piling on and doing the tag and watchwitz shit is groupthink...

Okay, I am starting to see a pattern here. You use words without knowing what they mean. Groupthink doesn't mean what you think it means. We don't assert conformity in spite of irrational premises. If someone urinated in the corner of the room and people shout at him to stop that is not promoting groupthink.

You are acting paranoid in relation to Red Hook, this was pointed and then ridiculed. Your retort was "You plebs simply do not understand my superior intellect". You have yet to prove your paranoia is justified. Most of the negative comments are still there and you basically have no proof of this vast under the table promotion conspiracy. While I don't condone it, them flagging your review has more to do with the fact that they never want to see your name ever again...and I understand. If you pulled this stuff IRL you would have a restraining order by now or sued for harassment..

Divinity was portrayed that way, the problem is instead of getting a "Souls" feel it seemed like a "Souls poser", made by someone who had no idea what that style was like.

No piece of media released by Larian has compared Divinity: Original Sin, an isometric turn based old school CRPG to a Souls game, a 3rd person action roleplaying game. How did you get this impression? From a reviewer? I genuinely want to know who made the mental gymnastics to compare D:OS to Dark Souls, I could use a good laugh.

Again, Divinity: Original Sin was marketed and sold has a modernized old school experience. I watched the interviews before launch pretty closely. Swen always talked about "You can do so much and experiment and etc etc etc.". I do not know of a single instance of "This game is super hard and will need the highest dedication to finish".


Anyway I tried but this an impenetrable wall of obstructionism. This conversation is fundamentally "I figured out Helion Spam the moment I booted up the game because I am not a casual scrub lord and this is the only experience to judge the game by. The forum agrees with me (not really), the data agrees with me (not really), Red Hook is the worst developer ever to grace steam (not really), Jim Sterling agrees with me (not really) and those 1337 hours were well spent (not really)". Nobody understands my brilliance and when I give "mild" comments and use words I understand (not really) people align against me with their groupthink. The fact that I get banned only reaffirms how right I am!".

The only question left is how many more tags will Celerity manage to accrue with his behavior.

 

[Ludo Lense]

VD was unto something. This can be fun though I am done now.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Walls of text. Lower word count so lulz are more accessible.

 

[Celerity]

Either stuff got deleted or you are factually wrong. It took 2 minutes to check the forums from february. 70% is questions 20% is that the game is too hard and 10% is misc stuff (artwork, suggestions etc.)

You forget I was actually there, and Hellion spam was this basic, common sense thing that everyone figured out quickly and did. Even the oblivious streamers caught on (resulting in the entirely irrelevant exhaust debuff). The only thing that changed is that many people were fooled by this proxy nerf, whereas those who understood math just kept doing the same thing as there wasn't a second round of combat anyways. Hell, a lot of the recent negative reviews are even getting it.

The average and median time totals are well within reasonable bounds in comparison to most games. 7 minutes average is quite decent.

When you have a game that's review/video fodder and looks good for about 5 hours, and also has an 86% positive meme, pointing out 70% quit before they saw its true nature, and 79% never came back after release at all is pretty relevant. Especially since the game had a positive perception for the first half, and a very negative for the second. Which is why I mention it.

This is why I don't like the achievements argument, it is heavily based on WHEN the achievements came combined with when the game spiked. Underrail and AoD started spiking towards the end and during release because that is when they started selling it more aggressively (you heard more about close to release). Darkest had its spike at the start and then a few more twitch related ones. The Nuclear throne roguelite was a game similar in development to DD (big EA releases, small gold release) and only 40% got "Die" achievement. There are just too many factors to take achievements at face value and classifying the data properly requires guesswork.

The achievement argument proves how many are interested in release vs how many bought, that's it. Now nuke was in multiple bundles, I think it might have been free once... I'm sure there's many people that never tried it at all. Myself included. Derpest you can only get by specifically buying it.

You can assess what's happening given context and historical knowledge, which I have.

It wasn't about Fallout itself but about your counter reaction and others reaction back. You seem to be very prickly about moments where you made mistakes. Also 'the hours of research" is a cop out and you know it.

I'm very prickly about people swarming and going full retard because then I just turn on trolling idiots mode. If you just said Fallout 1-2 were made by a different company, you're wrong well you'd get a nice and a correction and that'd be that.

The hours of research is not a cop out, I remind you of the context behind this:

I'm researching Underrail, seeing if it's a good game.

Review compares it with Fallout 2.

I remark I'm apprehensive about this.

Board flips the fuck out.

Particularly after the Derpest clusterfuck, I will screen the fuck out of everything so I can be absolutely certain no other scams ever get through again. That includes Fallout 1-2, which people were pressuring me about.

Okay, I am starting to see a pattern here. You use words without knowing what they mean. Groupthink doesn't mean what you think it means. We don't assert conformity in spite of irrational premises. If someone urinated in the corner of the room and people shout at him to stop that is not promoting groupthink.

You are acting paranoid in relation to Red Hook, this was pointed and then ridiculed. Your retort was "You plebs simply do not understand my superior intellect". You have yet to prove your paranoia is justified. Most of the negative comments are still there and you basically have no proof of this vast under the table promotion conspiracy. While I don't condone it, them flagging your review has more to do with the fact that they never want to see your name ever again...and I understand. If you pulled this stuff IRL you would have a restraining order by now or sued for harassment..

Oh? Then try holding down a conversation without the brofists, tags, watchwitzing, and swarming. You can't. You jump on anyone that goes against the groupthink. It's not just me. You cannot function on a neutral forum. I, for all the accusations of insanity can.

No piece of media released by Larian has compared Divinity: Original Sin, an isometric turn based old school CRPG to a Souls game, a 3rd person action roleplaying game. How did you get this impression? From a reviewer? I genuinely want to know who made the mental gymnastics to compare D:OS to Dark Souls, I could use a good laugh.

I don't even remember. Stylistically it is kind of the same, but then people call Derpest Dark Souls and it has nothing in common at all. Stylistically = open world, non linear, expecting intelligence and common sense from you... And Dark Souls was never marketed as super hard either, just difficult.

Anyway I tried but this an impenetrable wall of obstructionism. This conversation is fundamentally "I figured out Helion Spam the moment I booted up the game because I am not a casual scrub lord and this is the only experience to judge the game by. The forum agrees with me (not really), the data agrees with me (not really), Red Hook is the worst developer ever to grace steam (not really), Jim Sterling agrees with me (not really) and those 1337 hours were well spent (not really)". Nobody understands my brilliance and when I give "mild" comments and use words I understand (not really) people align against me with their groupthink. The fact that I get banned only realism how right I am!".

The only question left is how many more tags will Celerity manage to accrue with his behavior.

So is obstructism when you willfully misintrepet my stance? Help me out here, since I'm so bad at the words.

What actually happened is Hellion spam was a super common thing, most people quit when the proxy nerf came, the rest kept doing it because they realized it didn't matter and the people with math skills understood the why - only direct damage matters, it's dominant, Hellions do the most damage (and later have wide target selection). Corpses promote damage spam = Hellions don't care and keep spamming damage, others are actually hurt. Etc. But of course I knew from the instant you unironically said you'd debate in "good faith" you had absolutely no intention of actually doing so.

 

[Invictus]

One of the things I really dislike about the game is the hunger mechanic, since it is completly random for what should be a fairly set process (every 6 rooms you have to eat, or every 15 minutes of playtime for example) so something like what just happened to me fucks you up; I was grinding a bit for deeds on a beginner small dungeon so I packed 8 food rations just in case and maybe 3 rooms in my chars grew hungry and so they ate, maybe 2 rooms later they ate again so I was out of food and what do tou know right after a fight with a couple of the skelys that use the black cup my amost level 3 jester (with fully upgraded level 3 skills and level 2 equipment) went loco after another hunger check and he refused to use his lute on anybody so his insanity drove everybody crazy and the party was wipped out by a group of cultists and the acurser guy screaming shit...
I can deal with fuckups on my part but it felt really unfair having all of that happen when 95% of the time I wont have more than one hunger strike on the small dungeons, let alone fucking 3

 

[Jimmious]

That actually sounds cool to be honest

 

[Grunker]

I have now played roughly 8 hours of this game and I think it's pretty fun.

 

[Mustawd]

Whale Cum back bro.

 

[LizardWizard]

I have now played roughly 8 hours of this game and I think it's pretty fun.

Yeah, but will it be fun after another 1329 hours?

 

[Ludo Lense]

Drivel

Arguing with someone in good faith means that you are genuinely trying to convince someone of something without being disingenuous. Celerity, no amount of whining, crying and affirming will change empirical data.

Fact: The vast majority of complaints regarding the game are that it is too hard or that the stress system is annoying. Until you show the sea of threads that you claim whine about how easy the game is and Hellion spam then we have nothing left to discuss.

Fact: Steam charts shows that the game had its largest peak player spike after going gold this month and Steam Spy shows a decent median player time in comparison to similar games. Until you disprove those sites and bring in new data that shows that the game is dead we have nothing left to discuss.

Fact: The majority of post release reviews are positive and not negative. Until you can prove that these people are bought we have nothing left to discuss.

Fact: The prevailing opinion on the forums and steam forums is that the game is alright but it could have been more or just outright satisfaction. The prevailing opinion here is that the game is a sub-par hardcore experience but a decent time waster. Until you can prove your opinion is representative of any significant segment of the player base your use of "we" and "you will come to the same conclusions has me" are hollow so we have nothing left to discuss.

I don't even remember. Stylistically it is kind of the same, but then people call Derpest Dark Souls and it has nothing in common at all. Stylistically = open world, non linear, expecting intelligence and common sense from you... And Dark Souls was never marketed as super hard either, just difficult.

This is so wrong that you don't even know what you don't know. This is like complaining that you played SWAT 4 and it is not like Doom by the logic that they both have gun models and require you to target things.

Has a final note, since the whole Divinity/Dark Souls thing shows that your system of reference is so misguided that I might as well talk with my grandma about games, you are one disturbing individual Celerity. Your tendency to immediately shift and rationalize everything into an us vs them mentality is fucking creepy.

Treating the Codex this way is wrong to say the least given how eclectic a bunch this is but to you that doesn't matter since the sole defining feature of "groupthink" is people who disagree with anything you say. "These people are shills and posers, they work together to gang up on me! They are all in on it!".

Scary way to look at the world man.

 

[Eyestabber]

Ludo Lense is full of shit. The Codex has a premium secret forum. There we discuss strategies to discredit whistleblowers like you, Celerity.

I'm sorry guys, if I get banned for revealing this secret, so be it. But I can't take any more lying. As I write this post the premium forum has a 173 pages long thread titled "Celerity must be stopped at all costs!" where Ludo and others are discussing strategies to prevent people from finding out the truth about this game.

Red Hook John barely posts there anymore, but if you know his Codex account (like I do) you can see for yourself that he reads the thread every day. If you read between the lines of his postings in other forums you'll see the guy is apprehensive.

Jim Sterling OTOH posts every single day in that thread. He sounded really freaked out some time ago. Now the reason seems clear: when you contacted him he realized the gig was up. He wanted to make a video calling you crazy, but we advised him not to. So instead he pretended to be on your side in order to buy us some time.

I won't uphold this farce anymore. I simply can't take it anymore. Red Hook John's last post sounded arrogant as fuck. He pretty much told us "find a way to silence Celerity or forget about the money, bozos". That's when Angthoron went rogue and started with the tags and the watchwitz bullshit.

When that didn't stop you it finally became crystal clear to us: there is nothing we can do and nothing we can say to save DD. Your posts are nothing short of Revelation: a self evident Truth that cannot be denied and cannot be erased. Going against such a force is the very definition of a futile effort. Red Hook's fate is sealed.

I'm sorry fellow Codexers, I really am. I hope we can still be friends after this. I can live without Red Hook's money. I know some of you need their money to feed your children. Cassidy probably won't be able to send his daughter to college now that I ruined things with RH. I'm sorry man. If she grows up to be a drunken tramp, it's on me. I take full responsibility for my actions.

I'm sorry Codex. I can't live a lie anymore

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Ludo Lense is full of shit. The Codex has a premium secret forum. There we discuss strategies to discredit whistleblowers like you, Celerity.

I'm sorry guys, if I get banned for revealing this secret, so be it. But I can't take any more lying. As I write this post the premium forum has a 173 pages long thread titled "Celerity must be stopped at all costs!" where Ludo and others are discussing strategies to prevent people from finding out the truth about this game.

Red Hook John barely posts there anymore, but if you know his Codex account (like I do) you can see for yourself that he reads the thread every day. If you read between the lines of his postings in other forums you'll see the guy is apprehensive.

Jim Sterling OTOH posts every single day in that thread. He sounded really freaked out some time ago. Now the reason seems clear: when you contacted him he realized the gig was up. He wanted to make a video calling you crazy, but we advised him not to. So instead he pretended to be on your side in order to buy us some time.

I won't uphold this farce anymore. I simply can't take it anymore. Red Hook John's last post sounded arrogant as fuck. He pretty much told us "find a way to silence celerity or forget about the money, bozos". That's when Angthoron went rogue and started with the tags and the watchwitz bullshit.

When that didn't stop you it finally became crystal clear to us: there is nothing we can do and nothing we can say to save DD. Your posts are nothing short of Revelation: a self evident Truth that cannot be denied and cannot be erased. Going against such a force is the very definition of a futile effort. Red Hook's fate is sealed.

I'm sorry fellow Codexers, I really am. I hope we can still be friends after this. I can live without Red Hook's money. I know some of you need their money to feed your children. Cassidy probably won't be able to send his daughter to college now that I ruined things with RH. I'm sorry man. If she grows up to be a drunken tramp, it's on me. I take full responsibility for my actions.

I'm sorry Codex. I can't live a lie anymore

You know you're also gonna get watchwitzed for this, right?

I mean, you're gonna hafta browse fucking RPGWatch now man. Y U do dis?

 

[Got bored and left]

Ludo Lense is full of shit. The Codex has a premium secret forum. There we discuss strategies to discredit whistleblowers like you, Celerity.

I'm sorry guys, if I get banned for revealing this secret, so be it. But I can't take any more lying. As I write this post the premium forum has a 173 pages long thread titled "Celerity must be stopped at all costs!" where Ludo and others are discussing strategies to prevent people from finding out the truth about this game.

Red Hook John barely posts there anymore, but if you know his Codex account (like I do) you can see for yourself that he reads the thread every day. If you read between the lines of his postings in other forums you'll see the guy is apprehensive.

Jim Sterling OTOH posts every single day in that thread. He sounded really freaked out some time ago. Now the reason seems clear: when you contacted him he realized the gig was up. He wanted to make a video calling you crazy, but we advised him not to. So instead he pretended to be on your side in order to buy us some time.

I won't uphold this farce anymore. I simply can't take it anymore. Red Hook John's last post sounded arrogant as fuck. He pretty much told us "find a way to silence celerity or forget about the money, bozos". That's when Angthoron went rogue and started with the tags and the watchwitz bullshit.

When that didn't stop you it finally became crystal clear to us: there is nothing we can do and nothing we can say to save DD. Your posts are nothing short of Revelation: a self evident Truth that cannot be denied and cannot be erased. Going against such a force is the very definition of a futile effort. Red Hook's fate is sealed.

I'm sorry fellow Codexers, I really am. I hope we can still be friends after this. I can live without Red Hook's money. I know some of you need their money to feed your children. Cassidy probably won't be able to send his daughter to college now that I ruined things with RH. I'm sorry man. If she grows up to be a drunken tramp, it's on me. I take full responsibility for my actions.

I'm sorry Codex. I can't live a lie anymore

You're a brave man for telling the truth. Generations will marvel at your honesty. I salute you





















Faget!

 

[Jimmious]

How many copies of DD do I need to buy to get access to this forum?