D&D 5E Discussion

[halkony2012]

You could always try to a find an AD&D 2E game or other older D&D edition. Just advertise as such that you're looking specifically for those editions.

To be totally clear, is AD&D 1e/2e just another name for D&D 1e/2e, or is it a variation? Seems like the former after reading the foreword in the 2e rules.

 

[JamesDixon]

You could always try to a find an AD&D 2E game or other older D&D edition. Just advertise as such that you're looking specifically for those editions.

To be totally clear, is AD&D 1e/2e just another name for D&D 1e/2e, or is it a variation? Seems like the former after reading the foreword in the 2e rules.

D&D is the original game, published in 1974, and has a lot of differences with AD&D. AD&D was developed by Gary Gygax to have a more coherent approach to the rules in 1977. In D&D Basic, races were also classes unlike AD&D where classes and races were separate. The base mechanics of D&D Basic and AD&D are nearly identical with minor differences.

D&D Basic and AD&D became two separate product lines during TSR's ownership.

 

[JamesDixon]

You could always try to a find an AD&D 2E game or other older D&D edition. Just advertise as such that you're looking specifically for those editions.

To be totally clear, is AD&D 1e/2e just another name for D&D 1e/2e, or is it a variation? Seems like the former after reading the foreword in the 2e rules.

D&D is the original game, published in 1974, and has a lot of differences with AD&D. AD&D was developed by Gary Gygax to have a more coherent approach to the rules in 1977. In D&D Basic, races were also classes unlike AD&D where classes and races were separate. The base mechanics of D&D Basic and AD&D are nearly identical with minor differences.

D&D Basic and AD&D became two separate product lines during TSR's ownership.

Zed Duke of Banville may be able to give you a more in depth explanation on the differences.

 

[halkony2012]

You could always try to a find an AD&D 2E game or other older D&D edition. Just advertise as such that you're looking specifically for those editions.

To be totally clear, is AD&D 1e/2e just another name for D&D 1e/2e, or is it a variation? Seems like the former after reading the foreword in the 2e rules.

D&D is the original game, published in 1974, and has a lot of differences with AD&D. AD&D was developed by Gary Gygax to have a more coherent approach to the rules in 1977. In D&D Basic, races were also classes unlike AD&D where classes and races were separate. The base mechanics of D&D Basic and AD&D are nearly identical with minor differences.

D&D Basic and AD&D became two separate product lines during TSR's ownership.

Zed Duke of Banville may be able to give you a more in depth explanation on the differences.

Found a 2e group at the comic shop and was able to get a spot. Done some more research on 2e, and I like the fragility of early levels and the idea that you have to use wit/decision making to get through combat and not just blast your dice to see who wins.

I found a pdf of "For Gold and Glory". Apparently this is AD&D 2e with additional rules scraped from Dragon Magazine?

 

[JamesDixon]

Found a 2e group at the comic shop and was able to get a spot. Done some more research on 2e, and I like the fragility of early levels and the idea that you have to use wit/decision making to get through combat and not just blast your dice to see who wins.

I found a pdf of "For Gold and Glory". Apparently this is AD&D 2e with additional rules scraped from Dragon Magazine?

Congrats on finding a 2E group! I hope you have a lot of fun.

For Gold & Glory it's almost identical to AD&D 2E. The one major difference is that for the Non-Weapon Proficiencies they mixed in Secondary Skills to replace the original NWP.

 

[Larianshill]

I now have a woman in 5 out of my 6 groups. One of the groups has three women. Feels like the demographics really did change.

 

[deuxhero]

I'm completely new to DnD and the Forgotten Realms setting. My idea for getting into DnD is to read through the player's handbook, then read something to get more acquainted with the lore. I'm looking for content that will deepen my immersion during campaigns.

If you're new to D&D and interested in its settings, then I suggest anything other than the Forgotten Realms, which is the worst campaign setting ever created for D&D/AD&D due to its being created as an intentionally bland, generic replacement for the Greyhawk campaign setting that was inextricably connected with Gary Gygax and therefore in disfavor after he lost control of TSR to Lorraine Williams.

Greyhawk was, [snip]

For post TSR settings, Eberron is actually pretty neat too. It's a "wide magic" powered interwar esque pulp setting where there's no evolving canon past the year it recommends for starting (so all novels are their own little timeline that has no impact on your games, which solves a big problem every TSR setting except Birthright and Spelljammer ran into), reasons the player characters are the ones to solve everything, and lots of original ideas. There's even a fan-made (but paid thanks to GM's guild. Like all PDFs, you can "find" it.) one book summary of the setting called the Eberronicon that's all the information a player character should know that both avoids setting "spoilers" (such and such king is actually a vampire, or this religion is a fake) and includes recommendations for where to read about further stuff. It's pretty good, though it got a bunch of updates and can't vouch for the latest as I don't know what has changed.

Eberron's problem is that anyone can get divine powers. You don't even have to believe in the patron deity of a religion to get it. The creators tried to go for a pseudo-Catholic feel with the Silver Flame, for example, and put in corrupt and outright Evil Cardinals and the like, but they all get powers from a LG deity. It was created at the beginning of the woke cancer that has destroyed woketards of the cunts.

Remember that Eberron is a setting where ANY group above a certain size can be used as a villain. An actually purely good church wouldn't work with that. Also later works stress that, despite the corruption and mistakes, the Silver Flame templars are genuinely the common man's defense against supernatural evil, which is very, definitely, provably real in the setting.

 

[deuxhero]

As someone inexperienced with TTRPGs, lategame 5e looks like a fucking huge mess of traits/spells/features/plumbing skills to manage. Is this what you refer to as lvl9+ being dysfunctional?

More that, because of a retarded decision to cap attributes and armor class, non-casters characters dramatically slow down their rate of increase in offensive power past level 9. After level 9 their only offense increases come from their class and sub-class abilities (these vary wildly in quality, from totally useless to stupidly overpowered but generally trend toward sucking compared to the spells casters get) and the proficiency boost every 4 levels (minor and takes a quarter of the game to increase). Instead characters get more defensive by gaining more HP: A lot more HP. This is reflected on monsters too, as monsters become massive damage sponges that gain dozens of HP a level.

This is hardly 5E's only design problem. "bonded accuracy" is a concept where there's no way to actually increase accuracy from the numbers the game designed, which means any character who doesn't have their primary attribute as high as it can go at character generation (15 from point buy and +1 or +2 from race) is always behind on accuracy/power and sucks till level 12. This and the skill changes means there's only one (two for melee classes that can run strength OR dexterity) viable attribute setup for each class, and most races are useless for each class or in general. There's lots of choices, except only a small number are viable and straying from the developer's one true path almost always results in unplayable garbage making it largely an illusion of choice rather than viable choice.

 

[Cael]

I'm completely new to DnD and the Forgotten Realms setting. My idea for getting into DnD is to read through the player's handbook, then read something to get more acquainted with the lore. I'm looking for content that will deepen my immersion during campaigns.

If you're new to D&D and interested in its settings, then I suggest anything other than the Forgotten Realms, which is the worst campaign setting ever created for D&D/AD&D due to its being created as an intentionally bland, generic replacement for the Greyhawk campaign setting that was inextricably connected with Gary Gygax and therefore in disfavor after he lost control of TSR to Lorraine Williams.

Greyhawk was, [snip]

For post TSR settings, Eberron is actually pretty neat too. It's a "wide magic" powered interwar esque pulp setting where there's no evolving canon past the year it recommends for starting (so all novels are their own little timeline that has no impact on your games, which solves a big problem every TSR setting except Birthright and Spelljammer ran into), reasons the player characters are the ones to solve everything, and lots of original ideas. There's even a fan-made (but paid thanks to GM's guild. Like all PDFs, you can "find" it.) one book summary of the setting called the Eberronicon that's all the information a player character should know that both avoids setting "spoilers" (such and such king is actually a vampire, or this religion is a fake) and includes recommendations for where to read about further stuff. It's pretty good, though it got a bunch of updates and can't vouch for the latest as I don't know what has changed.

Eberron's problem is that anyone can get divine powers. You don't even have to believe in the patron deity of a religion to get it. The creators tried to go for a pseudo-Catholic feel with the Silver Flame, for example, and put in corrupt and outright Evil Cardinals and the like, but they all get powers from a LG deity. It was created at the beginning of the woke cancer that has destroyed woketards of the cunts.

Remember that Eberron is a setting where ANY group above a certain size can be used as a villain. An actually purely good church wouldn't work with that. Also later works stress that, despite the corruption and mistakes, the Silver Flame templars are genuinely the common man's defense against supernatural evil, which is very, definitely, provably real in the setting.

They can be antagonists without the whole "Evil priests getting powers from LG deities" nonsense. It is just a bunch of woketard soibois wanting their cake and eating it, too. "I want to be a worshipper of a LG deity but I want to rape and murder wantonly! How dare you not allow that! That is raaaaaaay-cist!!!!"

 

[mediocrepoet]

I now have a woman in 5 out of my 6 groups. One of the groups has three women. Feels like the demographics really did change.

It's hard to say, I had women in both of my main groups in the 90s (0-1 in the first and 2-3 in the second) and came across a number of women in the hobby back then. It was actually a woman who introduced me to D&D in the 80s.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

You could always try to a find an AD&D 2E game or other older D&D edition. Just advertise as such that you're looking specifically for those editions.

To be totally clear, is AD&D 1e/2e just another name for D&D 1e/2e, or is it a variation? Seems like the former after reading the foreword in the 2e rules.

D&D is the original game, published in 1974, and has a lot of differences with AD&D. AD&D was developed by Gary Gygax to have a more coherent approach to the rules in 1977. In D&D Basic, races were also classes unlike AD&D where classes and races were separate. The base mechanics of D&D Basic and AD&D are nearly identical with minor differences.

D&D Basic and AD&D became two separate product lines during TSR's ownership.

Zed Duke of Banville may be able to give you a more in depth explanation on the differences.

There were six editions of Dungeons & Dragons published by TSR, though it's important to keep in mind that all of these editions are closer to each other than to any new rules with the D&D name published after the demise of TSR in 1997.


1st: Original D&D, by Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson, consisting of the three "little brown booklets" (about 110 pages total) sold together starting in 1974, with three character classes (fighting-man, magic-user, and cleric). There were three rules supplements (about 190 pages total) --- Greyhawk (paladins and thieves, among many other new rules), Blackmoor (monks and assassins plus a sample adventure among other things), and Eldritch Wizardry (druids and psionics among other items) --- plus Supplement IV: Deities, Demigods, and Heroes, which was a precursor to Deities & Demigods / Legends & Lore but didn't really contain new rules.

2nd: Eric Holmes' "blue book" D&D in 1977 consisting of a single, 50-page booklet with rules only up to 3rd level. Not exactly a complete version of D&D in itself, but it sold quite well due to being cheap and comprehensible.

3rd: Advanced Dungeons & Dragons by Gary Gygax with three core rulebooks (about 500 pages total): the Monster Manual released in 1977, the Players Handbook in 1978, and the Dungeon Masters Guide in 1979. TSR began publishing adventure modules in 1978, about 100 specifically for this version of the rules. Two World of Greyhawk setting books by Gygax were released (the brief Folio in 1980 and the lengthier box set in 1983), although TSR only moved heavily into campaign setting material in 1987, after Gygax's ouster from TSR, starting with the Forgotten Realms box set and Dragonlance hardcover book. A few optional rulebooks were published beginning with Unearthed Arcana in 1985, not counting the earlier Fiend Folio and Monster Manual II with additional monsters or the Deities & Demigods / Legends & Lore book about representing (mostly) real-world mythologies with AD&D stats.

4th: Moldvay/Cook B/X D&D in 1981 consisting of the Basic Rules and Expert Rules (about 130 pages total), with covers by Erol Otus. The Basic Rules were a somewhat more expansive revision of Holmes D&D, while the Expert Rules took players up to level 14. Supposedly, this version of D&D had been intended to conclude with a third rules set that was never published.

5th: Mentzer BECMI D&D, published starting in 1983, ultimately consisting of five box sets (about 500 pages total) with covers by Larry Elmore. The 'Red Box' Basic Set was similar to Holmes and Moldvay Basic but much lengthier with a drastically revised presentation, and the 'Blue Box' Expert Set was similar to the Cook Expert Rules. The third 'Green Box' Companion Set took characters to level 25 and included rules for dominion rulership and mass warfare, among other things, while the fourth 'Black Box' Master Set took characters to the maximum 36th level with rules for questing for immortality. The final 'Gold Box' Immortals Set provided a new set of rules for playing as immortals that was almost divorced from normal D&D rules. Beginning in 1987, a series of Gazetteers were published detailing the various countries of the Known World, followed by a few campaign setting box sets and other material. A 1991 Rules Cyclopedia compiled the rules from the first four box sets, while a 1992 Wrath of the Immortals box set replaced the Gold Box rules for immortals with new ones. About 60 adventure modules were published for non-advanced D&D, overwhelmingly for the BECMI version.

6th: 2nd edition AD&D by David Zeb Cook, a revision of Gygax's AD&D, released in 1989 again as a set of three core rulebooks (about 600 pages total) but with the Monster Manual hardcover book replaced by a Monstrous Compendium contained in a binder. Most of the AD&D campaign setting material was published for 2nd edition AD&D, including everything for the new Spelljammer, Ravenloft, Dark Sun, Al Qadim, Planescape, and Birthright settings. There were also a voluminous amount of optional rules --- 15 Complete ____ Handbook's, 8 Dungeon Master's Guide Resources, 7 Historical Reference Books, and many more --- plus about 150 adventure modules and a considerable quantity of other material before TSR went bankrupt in 1997.

 

[Gyor]

I'm completely new to DnD and the Forgotten Realms setting. My idea for getting into DnD is to read through the player's handbook, then read something to get more acquainted with the lore. I'm looking for content that will deepen my immersion during campaigns.

1) What should I read after the PHB?
2) Would the DnD novels help me better at roleplaying in the Forgotten Realms? (seems like a no, from what I've read)

1) Evermeet, Cormyr, Avatar Saga, Brimstone Angels Saga, and The Sundering (one book is part of both the Brimstone Angels Saga and The Sundering).
2) Yes, but be warned there hundreds of FR novels, more FR novels then MtG novels combined, only Warhammer has more novels, maybe Star Wars & Star Trek too, but you don't have to read them all.

 

[Gyor]

5th edition? The rulebook for a better system. 5E is really bad in the sense it doesn't actually function, especially past level 8/9.

No. If for some reason you wanted to do FR RP (don't. It's super generic and a setting where all the nations might as well exist in separate worlds if they aren't at war with each other.) learning Ed Greenwood's rules for the setting like omnipresent brothels (yes) is a better use of your time if you wanted to go down that route.

Unfortunately, the group I intend to join next week is doing 5e.
As someone inexperienced with TTRPGs, lategame 5e looks like a fucking huge mess of traits/spells/features/plumbing skills to manage. Is this what you refer to as lvl9+ being dysfunctional?

I certainly plan on developing my TTRPG chops, and it seems like I'm in the right place .

If you're new to D&D and interested in its settings, then I suggest anything other than the Forgotten Realms, which is the worst campaign setting ever created for D&D/AD&D due to its being created as an intentionally bland, generic replacement for the Greyhawk campaign setting that was inextricably connected with Gary Gygax and therefore in disfavor after he lost control of TSR to Lorraine Williams...

I appreciate learning the roots of the scene. I'm in my mid twenties and advances in computers and technology have "conditioned" me into focusing on modern solutions for entertainment. It's my understanding that this forum's members are generally older, and getting this perspective is helpful as I look for genuinely fun and interesting backdrops for campaigns.
What's a good place to LFG online for campaigns like these?

I would advise you to get AD&D 2E as it's the best and last version of TSR's real D&D. Everything else is D&D In Name Only (DANDINO). I second Zed Duke of Banville's suggestions on settings with my favorite being Dragonlance. It is one of the most unique ones out there.

Thanks for clarifying what DANDINO means. Saw it around but it never clicked with me.
Sounds like Wizards just likes to make mass market bullshit, huh? Tried getting back into Magic after 10+ years. I can play decently, but I'm easily confused and overwhelmed by the mental model of the game.

Thank you all for the measured responses. Forgot good discussion actually exists on the internet lol

Don't listen to Duke Zed, he doesn't know shit about the Forgotten Realms setting if he thinks its bland. There is a good reason it has the largest popularity of any setting and why AFR was the best selling summer set in MtG. The setting has depth and tons of lore.

 

[JamesDixon]

Don't listen to Duke Zed, he doesn't know shit about the Forgotten Realms setting if he thinks its bland. There is a good reason it has the largest popularity of any setting and why AFR was the best selling summer set in MtG. The setting has depth and tons of lore.

McDonalds is popular and has sold the most burgers, but it doesn't indicate quality of said food. In fact, McDonalds has the worst food quality around. Thus, you presented the false equivalence logical fallacy. Oh yes, pulling out Magic the Gathering as proof of something being good when Forgotten Realms is the only D&D set they released for that game. It's hard to have a competition when you only have one thing in the race.

As such, it's safe to say you aren't worth listening to since you are unable to prove your points without obfuscation through the use of logical fallacies. Besides, you're not a D&D fan. You are a DANDINO fan which means your opinion is equal to liquid shit running out of your diseased ass.

 

[mediocrepoet]

listen to Duke Zed, the Forgotten Realms setting [is] bland.

ftfy, the original take was some of the dumbest shit I've seen in this thread.

 

[JamesDixon]

listen to Duke Zed, the Forgotten Realms setting [is] bland.

ftfy, the original take was some of the dumbest shit I've seen in this thread.

It also doesn't help that Zed was also right that FR was the new default setting after Gary was kicked to the curb. FR began life in 1967 when Ed was 8 years old.

 

[Cael]

The problem with FR is that people kept adding stuff to it willy-nilly. It became a mish-mash of different real world analogues slapped on without regard for anything else. We have the Africa area, the Egypt area, the Orient area, the Mongol area, the Arab area, the Slavic area and so on and so forth. It expanded beyond what Ed originally had, and because of all the various authors and contributors, there was no overarching design to the whole thing. Contrast that with Magnamund, for example, who had only Joe Dever overseeing its development.

 

[Morblot]

Don't listen to Duke Zed, he doesn't know shit about the Forgotten Realms setting if he thinks its bland. There is a good reason it has the largest popularity of any setting and why AFR was the best selling summer set in MtG. The setting has depth and tons of lore.

Gyor is a known cuck that buys fucking everything WotC puts out. Disgusting lack of taste.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

I'm completely new to DnD and the Forgotten Realms setting. My idea for getting into DnD is to read through the player's handbook, then read something to get more acquainted with the lore. I'm looking for content that will deepen my immersion during campaigns.

1) What should I read after the PHB?
2) Would the DnD novels help me better at roleplaying in the Forgotten Realms? (seems like a no, from what I've read)

1) Evermeet, Cormyr, Avatar Saga, Brimstone Angels Saga, and The Sundering (one book is part of both the Brimstone Angels Saga and The Sundering).
2) Yes, but be warned there hundreds of FR novels, more FR novels then MtG novels combined, only Warhammer has more novels, maybe Star Wars & Star Trek too, but you don't have to read them all.

There were about 200 D&D/AD&D novels published by TSR before it went under in 1997, and they're almost all of low quality. Telling someone to uncritically start reading them willy-nilly, rather than at most search out the few that are actually worthwhile, is terrible advice, seemingly calculated to drive any discerning person away from the hobby.

 

[Nortar]

There is a good reason it has the largest popularity of any setting and why AFR was the best selling summer set in MtG. The setting has depth and tons of lore.

Popularity is correlated with quality because a million of lemmings can not be wrong, right?

 

[JarlFrank]

Forgotten Realms is the definition of a kitchen sink setting, and it's not done in a good way. Even some of the more exotic settings were integrated into FR, like Al Qadim being a continent on the same planet, Planescape being connected to the FR, and Spelljammer being connected to it too... even though planeswalkers and spelljammers appear extremely rarely in your average vanilla FR campaign.

 

[JamesDixon]

Forgotten Realms is the definition of a kitchen sink setting, and it's not done in a good way. Even some of the more exotic settings were integrated into FR, like Al Qadim being a continent on the same planet, Planescape being connected to the FR, and Spelljammer being connected to it too... even though planeswalkers and spelljammers appear extremely rarely in your average vanilla FR campaign.

Planescape and Spelljammer connected all of the worlds into a single universe. It was started way back when Gary was in charge, but wasn't realized until after he was kicked to the curb.

 

[JarlFrank]

Yeah but PS and SJ use the FR as the common "rooting setting" that players start out from to then journey into these exotic worlds beyond, because FR is treated as the default.

 

[JamesDixon]

Yeah but PS and SJ use the FR as the common "rooting setting" that players start out from to then journey into these exotic worlds beyond, because FR is treated as the default.

Fair point. I was just stating the history of it.

 

[BruceVC]

https://www.geekwire.com/2022/wizards-of-the-coast-reveals-upcoming-projects-for-dungeons-dragons/

Their are some great new D&D projects coming out that include some Spelljammer content