D&D 5E Discussion

[rusty_shackleford]

Gary Gygax was adamant that females never represented more than 5% of the market share for RPGs at any point in time, and that chasing the female customer would end badly because women inherently aren't interested in RPGs(he was a biological determinist.)

"Those of you who read the first article in this series (“Dungeons & Dragons, What It ls And Where It Is Going,” DRAGON #22) will appreciate knowing that TSR is now in the process of creating its Design Department. Jean Wells is now on the staff in order to give the game material with a feminine viewpoint — after all, at least 10% of the players are female!"
- Gary Gygax, "From the Sorceror's Scroll", Dragon Magazine #24 (April 1979)

The following year, Jean Wells co-authored an article with Kim Mohan, Dragon Magazine's assistant editor at the time, titled "Women Want Equality and Why Not?", appearing in Dragon Magazine #39 (July 1980). Aside from repeating the claim that 10% of D&D/AD&D players were female, this article indicated that women prefer non-combat problem-solving more than male players, criticized the limitation on the strength score of human female characters, and lamented the lack of clothing depicted in female PC miniatures and other artwork.

Originally Posted by Faraer
4:1 according to WotC's 2000 market research piece, and I doubt the ratio has since got worse.

Do you really believe that figure? I certain do not, nor have I seen their documentation. Other surveys I have seen develop a much lower percentage of female gamers, something between 5% and 10%.

Cheers,
Gary

Do we really know how reliable the WOtC survey was? I don't think so.

There was a fairly extensive survey done by Role-Playing Tips Weekly in conjunction with my website in which somewhere over 5K respondents were counted. The percentage of females there was well under 5%.

I know of one study being conducted by a post-graduate student. She is awaiting funding to proceed, but so far has developed what she believes is a statistically reliable sampling that shows a c. 7% female audience, I do not know the margin of error.

Cheeers,
Gary

--

This discussion reminds me of Swen Vincke thinking a lot more females played RPGs than they did because of Google's faulty analytics for assigning genders. He thought it was close to something like 30%(iirc) according to the data, but females weren't buying Larian games at all(this was pre-Original Sin, btw.) The figure was closer to zero for actual sales.
I'd imagine with coop DOS/DOS2/BG3, it's probably higher, but still nowhere near 30%.

I think devs & marketing are sometimes too willing to trust analytics rather than reality and their gut.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Rusty: "Gary Gygax was adamant that females never represented more than 5% of the market share for RPGs"
Gary: "Other surveys I have seen develop a much lower percentage of female gamers, something between 5% and 10%."
Gary: "a statistically reliable sampling that shows a c. 7% female audience"

Yet again, you rely on Gary's on-line statements from many years after the fact and fail even to represent those correctly.

 

[Ninjerk]

What I really remember loving about reading my late cousin's old Dragon Magazine issues was the will-they-won't-they about "the" sex issue. Pretty sure I rubbed one out to the little cartoon chick with the big tits when she was about to take her shirt off.

 

[Stokowski]

I think devs & marketing are sometimes too willing to trust analytics rather than reality and their gut.

Their gut is 70% soy these days.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Rusty: "Gary Gygax was adamant that females never represented more than 5% of the market share for RPGs"
Gary: "Other surveys I have seen develop a much lower percentage of female gamers, something between 5% and 10%."
Gary: "a statistically reliable sampling that shows a c. 7% female audience"

Yet again, you rely on Gary's on-line statements from many years after the fact and fail even to represent those correctly.

There was a fairly extensive survey done by Role-Playing Tips Weekly in conjunction with my website in which somewhere over 5K respondents were counted. The percentage of females there was well under 5%.

women don't play rpgs, they larp. Which is why D&D is being ruined.

 

[Ninjerk]

tits

 

[Cael]

What I really remember loving about reading my late cousin's old Dragon Magazine issues was the will-they-won't-they about "the" sex issue. Pretty sure I rubbed one out to the little cartoon chick with the big tits when she was about to take her shirt off.

Premature detonation isn't something to be proud of, dude...

 

[Ninjerk]

What I really remember loving about reading my late cousin's old Dragon Magazine issues was the will-they-won't-they about "the" sex issue. Pretty sure I rubbed one out to the little cartoon chick with the big tits when she was about to take her shirt off.

Premature detonation isn't something to be proud of, dude...

doesn't matter if i got mine

 

[Caim]

Aside from repeating the claim that 10% of D&D/AD&D players were female, this article indicated that women prefer non-combat problem-solving more than male players

Then they should pick up a game not as combat-heavy game as D&D. There's loads of games that facilitate non-violent conflict resolution: Chronicles of Darkness, GURPS, any game Powered By The Apocalypse, Legend of the Five Rings, Risus, Dogs in the Vineyard, even something like Teenagers From Outer Space if you want something different. Just not D&D because it cannot provide them with what they want.

 

[mediocrepoet]

They want a larger female audience. Which is why they are creating non-combat and slice of life campaigns to appeal to women.

Huh. Well, I dunno about wombyn gamers in general, but the women in my group at least are in no way allergic to violence; on the contrary, no matter the campaign, my wife and her friend always seem to end up playing straightforward murderhobos with low charisma and a preference for hacking instead of yapping. I love it.

I've played a few games over the years with female players and they never shied away from fighting and were always into the game except when they were just someone's gf showing up because they were attached at the hip.

I ran a 5E game for a group that was 3 women and 1-2 guys. The women in that group tended to be more outspoken than the guys and came up with solutions at least as violent as anything I ever saw out of male groups.* One time they were getting their ass beat by a vampire spawn in a house's attic. Their solution was to flee outside and burn the entire house down and then take off before anyone could point them out as responsible.

I actually had to pause and ask if they were serious. Anyway it was highly effective against that single monster. Women don't fuck around.

* With one exception, but that guy was mentally ill and used to describe SAN check style horrific things. I'm glad I don't GM for him anymore.

 

[Silva]

Aside from repeating the claim that 10% of D&D/AD&D players were female, this article indicated that women prefer non-combat problem-solving more than male players

They want a larger female audience. Which is why they are creating non-combat and slice of life campaigns to appeal to women.

Huh. Well, I dunno about wombyn gamers in general, but the women in my group at least are in no way allergic to violence; on the contrary, no matter the campaign, my wife and her friend always seem to end up playing straightforward murderhobos with low charisma and a preference for hacking instead of yapping. I love it.

In my group we have 4 women (and around 6 men) and they're not averse to violence either, BUT they clearly feel more excited when we play Monsterhearts or games that give as much importance to the social aspect as to violent ones. Stuff like intrigue, romance, etc. Not surprisingly, PbtA is a big favorite in our crew (but we're pretty ecclectical and play all types of shit, from OD&D to Maid ).

 

[RangerBoo]

They want a larger female audience. Which is why they are creating non-combat and slice of life campaigns to appeal to women.

Huh. Well, I dunno about wombyn gamers in general, but the women in my group at least are in no way allergic to violence; on the contrary, no matter the campaign, my wife and her friend always seem to end up playing straightforward murderhobos with low charisma and a preference for hacking instead of yapping. I love it.

Note that this is what their marketing thinks that women want. They think if they pander to women that have no interest in their products that it will double their profits instead of looking at their female audience that they have and learning what they like about D&D. Modern marketing today are full of idiots.

 

[Mortmal]

Rusty: "Gary Gygax was adamant that females never represented more than 5% of the market share for RPGs"
Gary: "Other surveys I have seen develop a much lower percentage of female gamers, something between 5% and 10%."
Gary: "a statistically reliable sampling that shows a c. 7% female audience"

Yet again, you rely on Gary's on-line statements from many years after the fact and fail even to represent those correctly.

There was a fairly extensive survey done by Role-Playing Tips Weekly in conjunction with my website in which somewhere over 5K respondents were counted. The percentage of females there was well under 5%.

women don't play rpgs, they larp. Which is why D&D is being ruined.

Women do play rpg, some are heavily into builds and min maxing,better than any guy i know , they arent larping more than us. If anything ruin D&D its mainstreaming , having to check every items of the long list of politically correct things to include and things to remove in their product. On one side they make diversity is our strengh and no fantasy race is evil , or even no more slavery when it comes to paizo . On the indie side, mork borg for exemple, you can find a list of monster parts and their prices on the market, how much is worth a live troll , have rules for injuries, have magic that can horribly backfire incinerating you while being swallowed by the souls of the damned .

 

[Tyranicon]

There's a few women in my groups. They keep bringing up orgies in-game.

I think they're trying to tell us something.

 

[mediocrepoet]

There's a few women in my groups. They keep bringing up orgies in-game.

I think they're trying to tell us something.

Are they landwhales, creepers, or is it tempting? Inquiring minds need to know.

 

[Tyranicon]

There's a few women in my groups. They keep bringing up orgies in-game.

I think they're trying to tell us something.

Are they landwhales, creepers, or is it tempting? Inquiring minds need to know.

Pretty varied mix between late 20s to early 40s. Personally not too tempted.

That being said, they're good players and violent as hell, so it backs up what everyone else said above. Women in your pnp is fine.

But women on your pp is better.

 

[mediocrepoet]

There's a few women in my groups. They keep bringing up orgies in-game.

I think they're trying to tell us something.

Are they landwhales, creepers, or is it tempting? Inquiring minds need to know.

Pretty varied mix between late 20s to early 40s. Personally not too tempted.

Hey, what area of the planet do you live in? Need a new player?

 

[Reinhardt]

Zimbabwe.

 

[Tyranicon]

There's a few women in my groups. They keep bringing up orgies in-game.

I think they're trying to tell us something.

Are they landwhales, creepers, or is it tempting? Inquiring minds need to know.

Pretty varied mix between late 20s to early 40s. Personally not too tempted.

Hey, what area of the planet do you live in? Need a new player?

I'm no longer allowed to invite new players due to reasons.

 

[Morblot]

I'm no longer allowed to invite new players due to reasons.

An orgy got out of hand?

 

[Larianshill]

https://www.kickstarter.com/project...ertracker&utm_medium=web&utm_source=backerkit

Dragonlance is alright, but have you considered the word of our Lord?

 

[Trithne]

Add another one for "My wife is easily the most violent player at the table"

(And in the game!)

For real though, women who actually enjoy tabletop and get into it _really_ get into it. It's just that there's a lot of women (and bugmen) doing it right now because it's trendy, not because they enjoy it. And that's the Decline there.

 

[Reinhardt]

https://www.kickstarter.com/project...ertracker&utm_medium=web&utm_source=backerkit

Dragonlance is alright, but have you considered the word of our Lord?

WE WUZ KANGZ OF KANGZ!

 

[Caim]

https://www.kickstarter.com/project...ertracker&utm_medium=web&utm_source=backerkit

Dragonlance is alright, but have you considered the word of our Lord?

Green Ronin dit it first for 3e. At least, only during the Old Testament era.

 

[mediocrepoet]

https://www.kickstarter.com/project...ertracker&utm_medium=web&utm_source=backerkit

Dragonlance is alright, but have you considered the word of our Lord?

Green Ronin dit it first for 3e. At least, only during the Old Testament era.

Sweet, do they stat Moses? Can you kill him and take his robes? What sorts of bonuses do you get from looting the Ten Commandments?