Game News Cyberpunk 2077 Night City Wire Episode 4: Vehicles and Styles

[Dr Schultz]

https://youtu.be/2ZnrLMGaWhE

Not so obvious to me. In short, cyberpunk is about social darwinism and people using technology in the worst possible way. I see both things in spades here

It's rain wet streets; it's nights like this with fog rolling in, cars, faceless people going by, doing the thing that they're doing (...) they're are going by as shadows, in this wet, cold, dangerous environment.

Can you look at the pre-release materials and say with a straight face that this is how it looks and feels? To me cyberpunk was never only about certain themes, but also aesthetics and atmosphere. CP 2077 looks like they wanted to make is as cool and gangsta as possible, rather than focus on the dystopian aspect of the genre. It's not even the first time CDPR done something like that - they also abandoned the medieval Europe feel of the first Witcher in order to make it more accessible to mainstream US gamers.

Yes: In the above video I saw this and also other facets of the cyberpunk genre that need to be conveid by a videogame called Cyberpunk.

My point was exactly this one: the cyberpunk genre is not ALL dark, glomy and rainy. It's not in the books that kickstarted the genre and it's not in certain cinematic adaptations (like Ghost in the shell I &II). The dark and glomy part is just one facet of a complex sci-fi sub-genre.

PS: personal opinion: the Witcher game with the best esthetic is by far the second one.

 

[Silverfish]

Every cyberpunk piece of media must be rainy night, no exceptions. JFC.

 

[Infinitron]

Another thing Mike Pondsmith said back in 2013: "Grand Theft Auto 3 is basically cyberpunk minus the hardware."

 

[Necroscope]

Another thing Mike Pondsmith said back in 2013: "Grand Theft Auto 3 is basically cyberpunk minus the hardware."

You're quoting out of context:

Mirror’s Edge is great, but too clean. System Shock and Oni [from Bungie] are also good. Perfect Dark. Ghost in the Shell. Matrix. And Grand Theft Auto 3 is basically cyberpunk minus the hardware.

In the end, there has to be the right atmosphere. All echoes and dark city caverns. The right level of engagement. A world of human scaled characters fighting inhuman organizations, using technology to level to odds – but not to become supermen.

 

[Necroscope]

My point was exactly this one: the cyberpunk genre is not ALL dark, glomy and rainy. It's not in the books that kickstarted the genre and it's not in certain cinematic adaptations (like Ghost in the shell I &II).

I'm not saying that cyberpunk has to be rainy or literally dark. Have you even seen the original Ghost in the Shell? It's cold and somber.

 

[Zeriel]

This is actually, I'd argue, the problem with making a "lifesim" styled open world game instead of a more narrative or at least ambience-focused game that can selectively set its levels. Presumedly the world of Max Payne has a sunny daytime that isn't too depressing or noirish, but you never see that because the game takes place entirely at night in the rain.

GTA can have its moody moments, but it can't be predominantly moody.

 

[Stella Brando]

It's cold and somber.

It's set in Hong Kong. HK is 45 degrees and 150% humidity.

 

[Dr Schultz]

My point was exactly this one: the cyberpunk genre is not ALL dark, glomy and rainy. It's not in the books that kickstarted the genre and it's not in certain cinematic adaptations (like Ghost in the shell I &II).

I'm not saying that cyberpunk has to be rainy or literally dark. Have you even seen the original Ghost in the Shell? It's cold and somber.

I"ve seen litteraly everything that has the name Ghost in the shell on its top, even the shitty stuff.
Original Ghost in the shell
https://youtu.be/cpqdYt9hw2g
Ghost in the shell 2
https://youtu.be/3IGTiFuDjTI

By the way, if you haven't seen it yet, I strongly suggest you Stand Alone Complex. The second season in particular is gold

 

[Dr Schultz]

It's cold and somber.

It's set in Hong Kong. HK is 45 degrees and 150% humidity.

Tell necroscope. He's the one you are quoting .

Though, technically, GitS is set in Japan even if Oshi used Hong Kong as a reference for his famous adaptation. When I visited Mong Kok back in 2013 I felt like I was in the movie

 

[luj1]

I have my share of concerns about the game in terms of mechanics but the way they nailed the setting is definitely NOT one of them.

They nailed contemporary futurism alright

 

[Necroscope]

It's cold and somber.

It's set in Hong Kong. HK is 45 degrees and 150% humidity.

I didn't mean the temperature.

 

[FranticDistortion]

Cyberpunk is not defined by the in-universe time of the day and weather, dipshits.

 

[Falksi]

Falksi and his moron-level takes strike again. Every cyberpunk piece of media must be rainy night, no exceptions. JFC.

No, I'm saying that's how I prefer it. There's a difference. And not rainy in isolation, but dark & moody.

Some of you just want a niggers cock inside you so much, that your all sucking off whatever Pondsmith says.

 

[Farewell into the night]

I want snow level in this game. It would be awesme.

 

[Gerrard]

Wasn't it Gibson who said that "GitS is not cyberpunk"?

 

[Dr Schultz]

Wasn't it Gibson who said that "GitS is not cyberpunk"?

Not that I'm aware of (but I could be wrong).
I'm sure about two things, though: 1) Japanese Cyberpunk came out independently and at the same time of the western counterpart, thanks to works of Katsuhiro Otomo and Masamune Shirow. 2) The chief ideologist of the CP movement in USA was Bruce Sterling, not William Gibson, despite Neuromancer being the novel that popularized the genre.
So, Gibson is not exactly the person in charge to decide what is CP and what is not (assuming that the distinction makes sense in the first place)....

 

[oneself]

Generally speaking, I'm under the impression that people formed their idea of cyberpunk with Blade Runner - a movie based on a novel which technically isn't ever cyberpunk - and complain any time something cyberpunk doesn't align with said movie.

I think people simply associate cyberpunk vibe with futuristic aesthetics and themes from the 80's and 90's. Blade Runner, Terminator, Ghost in the Shell, Akira, CP 2020, Shadowrun and many more. There was always a lot of dystopian grittiness, harshness and darkness about anything involving cyberpunk elements. CP 2077, on the other hand, looks like a futuristic pastel version of GTA with people doing more swearing than necessary. The random hip-hop song makes it even more vomit provoking.

The 80's version of cyberpunk is now solidly in the retrofuturism category.

On the other hand, the hip-hop, the class stratification, the diversity makes it a more plausible extension based on the current social, economical progression of 21st century.

 

[Necroscope]

Generally speaking, I'm under the impression that people formed their idea of cyberpunk with Blade Runner - a movie based on a novel which technically isn't ever cyberpunk - and complain any time something cyberpunk doesn't align with said movie.

I think people simply associate cyberpunk vibe with futuristic aesthetics and themes from the 80's and 90's. Blade Runner, Terminator, Ghost in the Shell, Akira, CP 2020, Shadowrun and many more. There was always a lot of dystopian grittiness, harshness and darkness about anything involving cyberpunk elements. CP 2077, on the other hand, looks like a futuristic pastel version of GTA with people doing more swearing than necessary. The random hip-hop song makes it even more vomit provoking.

The 80's version of cyberpunk is now solidly in the retrofuturism category.

On the other hand, the hip-hop, the class stratification, the diversity makes it a more plausible extension based on the current social, economical progression of 21st century.

This is correct and I was about to add "retro" myself. That said, we were never good at predicting the future - be it trends, fashion, or technology. Okay, Demolition Man got it right to an extent, but that was a satire...

I doubt we will ever have any cyberpunk, we will end up like in the Calhoun's mouse experiment.

 

[Naraya]

To me this is quite a narrow idea of the cyberpunk estethic. Neuromancer, the first proper cyberpunk novel, tells the story of a groups of mercs that goes around the world in order to complete their mission. They visit both shit holes and artificial paradises. The last part of the book is even set in a recreational satellite for rich people.

This comes to mind (CP2077 spoiler follows):

Spoiler

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Cyberpunk is not defined by the in-universe time of the day and weather, dipshits.

From "Welcome to Night City: A Sourcebook for Cyberpunk 2013", by Mike Pondsmith, 1988. Atmosphere is defined as a critical element of the game, and this includes gloominess, unceasing rain, and lack of sunshine.

 

[Dr Schultz]

Cyberpunk is not defined by the in-universe time of the day and weather, dipshits.

From "Welcome to Night City: A Sourcebook for Cyberpunk 2013", by Mike Pondsmith, 1988. Atmosphere is defined as a critical element of the game, and this includes gloominess, unceasing rain, and lack of sunshine.

Yes. And what about "the glittering cittadels of the riches, the fine food, the beautiful scenarios"? You know, the unsufferable contrasts intrinsic to any cyberpunk society ever depicted in a novel

From the Night City Sourcebook:

"The most exclusive corporate-owned suburb in the area, EE caters to only the highest ranking Corpzoners and their assistants. Although it's been nicknamed a "beaverville", the name doesn't really apply to this stately sweep of million dollar homes, lush gardens and parks, huge greenbelts and golf courses, and private AV-pads. EE dwellers are among the very richest people of the Night Ci Area, and have the security and power to make sure they stay undisturbed."

Playing golf at 2:30 am or under eternal acid rains seems a bit unlikely

 

[Dr Schultz]

To me this is quite a narrow idea of the cyberpunk estethic. Neuromancer, the first proper cyberpunk novel, tells the story of a groups of mercs that goes around the world in order to complete their mission. They visit both shit holes and artificial paradises. The last part of the book is even set in a recreational satellite for rich people.

This comes to mind (CP2077 spoiler follows):

Spoiler

Yes, exactly, point is: In any respectable cyberpunk setting there are obscenely rich people whose life style need to be depicted as well. Otherwise it's just being gloomy and dark for the sake of it...

 

[RobotSquirrel]

Wasn't it Gibson who said that "GitS is not cyberpunk"?

Gibson says this all the time about everything
Then goes on record changing his mind every two seconds as to what Neuromancer "looks like"
Generally I accept his original statement which is John Carpenter's Escape from New York. Basically meaning it looks like Deus Ex and that all of his statements about X not being Cyberpunk are just stupid because the guy gave us a pretty clear definition. Don't even get him started on Shadowrun he went on record stating he despises it.

So when I see things like ShadowRun, the only negative thing I feel about it is that initial extreme revulsion at seeing my literary DNA mixed with elves. Somewhere somebody's sitting and saying 'I've got it! We're gonna do William Gibson and Tolkien!' Over my dead body! But I don't have to bear any aesthetic responsibility for it. I've never earned a nickel, but I wouldn't sue them. It's a fair cop. I'm sure there are people who could sue me, if they were so inclined, for messing with their stuff. So it's just kind of amusing.

He's really not gonna like what I'm working on LOL!

 

[Roguey]

Wasn't it Gibson who said that "GitS is not cyberpunk"?

I imagine Pondsmith would definitely say this because the main characters enforce the law, same as Deus Ex.

 

[luj1]

CD were pretty open about wanting a GTA 5 clone from day one, calling Rockstar the best company ever and GTA 5 the best game ever.