Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Game News Cyberpunk 2077 Night City Wire Episode 4: Vehicles and Styles

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,739
I'm getting pretty tired of AAA RPGs being this open world crap over and over again. That Cyberpunk 2077 looks like GTA LXXVII is nothing new, but I guess this was to be expected when you make an open world "RPG" in a setting where driveable cars are a thing. And because this will be a selling point to some many people, CDPR barely has any reason to make a mechanically-compelling RPG.
 

KeighnMcDeath

RPG Codex Boomer
Joined
Nov 23, 2016
Messages
15,472
No boats? Hover-flying craft? Jetpacks and space ports?


Hardly a dystopia; tbh, I don't know if cyberpunk covered spaceflight.
 

luj1

You're all shills
Vatnik
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
15,170
Location
Eastern block
I'm getting pretty tired of AAA RPGs being this open world crap over and over again. That Cyberpunk 2077 looks like GTA LXXVII is nothing new, but I guess this was to be expected when you make an open world "RPG" in a setting where driveable cars are a thing. And because this will be a selling point to some many people, CDPR barely has any reason to make a mechanically-compelling RPG.

This aint an RPG though, it's futuristic GTA popamole cancer
 

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
Patron
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
13,149
Yes. And what about "the glittering cittadels of the riches, the fine food, the beautiful scenarios"? You know, the unsufferable contrasts intrinsic to any cyberpunk society ever depicted in a novel :)

From the Night City Sourcebook:

"The most exclusive corporate-owned suburb in the area, EE caters to only the highest ranking Corpzoners and their assistants. Although it's been nicknamed a "beaverville", the name doesn't really apply to this stately sweep of million dollar homes, lush gardens and parks, huge greenbelts and golf courses, and private AV-pads. EE dwellers are among the very richest people of the Night Ci Area, and have the security and power to make sure they stay undisturbed."

Playing golf at 2:30 am or under eternal acid rains seems a bit unlikely
Eternal gloom exists for the player-characters, and therefore the players, rather than being literally the case for the broader setting, although even for the latter there is meant to be widespread environmental devastation with any golf courses, gardens, and parks likely being artificial creations maintained only by extreme wealth. Certainly the color cover art of the Cyberpunk 2020 books reinforced the notion that the players would always be active in the night (or daytime so overcast/rainy as to be indistinguishable):

cyberpunk-2020-68999_8cd12_1024x1024.jpg
NightCityCover300dpi_large_23757370-1e4d-4c26-8ed7-d46cda5d0e3f_1024x1024.jpg

1-06da343109.jpg


Wasn't it Gibson who said that "GitS is not cyberpunk"?

I imagine Pondsmith would definitely say this because the main characters enforce the law, same as Deus Ex.
Law-enforcement ("cops") was one of the eight roles available to player-characters in the original Cyberpunk 2013 rules and one of the ten roles available in Cyberpunk 2020, as was the "corporate" role for someone in the service of a megacorporation rather than the remnant of a government.
 

Tyranicon

A Memory of Eternity
Developer
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
7,859
Wasn't it Gibson who said that "GitS is not cyberpunk"?
Gibson says this all the time about everything
Then goes on record changing his mind every two seconds as to what Neuromancer "looks like"
Generally I accept his original statement which is John Carpenter's Escape from New York. Basically meaning it looks like Deus Ex and that all of his statements about X not being Cyberpunk are just stupid because the guy gave us a pretty clear definition. Don't even get him started on Shadowrun he went on record stating he despises it.

William Gibson said:
So when I see things like ShadowRun, the only negative thing I feel about it is that initial extreme revulsion at seeing my literary DNA mixed with elves. Somewhere somebody's sitting and saying 'I've got it! We're gonna do William Gibson and Tolkien!' Over my dead body! But I don't have to bear any aesthetic responsibility for it. I've never earned a nickel, but I wouldn't sue them. It's a fair cop. I'm sure there are people who could sue me, if they were so inclined, for messing with their stuff. So it's just kind of amusing.

Lol literary DNA. I'm stealing cyberpunk aesthetics, Lovecraftian cosmic horror and injecting it full of porn.

Time to pump so much degeneracy into the genre that slannesh pops out.
 

RobotSquirrel

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Aug 9, 2020
Messages
2,132
Location
Adelaide
When you consider the only developer to get Gibsons endorsement was ZQ.
Wouldn't take much for him to consider any of the work we did degenerate.
 

Tyranicon

A Memory of Eternity
Developer
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
7,859
When you consider the only developer to get Gibsons endorsement was ZQ.
Wouldn't take much for him to consider any of the work we did degenerate.

ZQ?

I like Gibson's work, but anybody who uses "literary dna" as if it's a palpable thing they own is deserving of a scoff.
 

Dr Schultz

Augur
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
492
Yes. And what about "the glittering cittadels of the riches, the fine food, the beautiful scenarios"? You know, the unsufferable contrasts intrinsic to any cyberpunk society ever depicted in a novel :)

From the Night City Sourcebook:

"The most exclusive corporate-owned suburb in the area, EE caters to only the highest ranking Corpzoners and their assistants. Although it's been nicknamed a "beaverville", the name doesn't really apply to this stately sweep of million dollar homes, lush gardens and parks, huge greenbelts and golf courses, and private AV-pads. EE dwellers are among the very richest people of the Night Ci Area, and have the security and power to make sure they stay undisturbed."

Playing golf at 2:30 am or under eternal acid rains seems a bit unlikely
Eternal gloom exists for the player-characters, and therefore the players, rather than being literally the case for the broader setting, although even for the latter there is meant to be widespread environmental devastation with any golf courses, gardens, and parks likely being artificial creations maintained only by extreme wealth. Certainly the color cover art of the Cyberpunk 2020 books reinforced the notion that the players would always be active in the night (or daytime so overcast/rainy as to be indistinguishable):

cyberpunk-2020-68999_8cd12_1024x1024.jpg
NightCityCover300dpi_large_23757370-1e4d-4c26-8ed7-d46cda5d0e3f_1024x1024.jpg

1-06da343109.jpg
If one takes the time to actually read the Night City sourcebook, a clear idea forms in his mind: It's mostly a beliviable place, a city that reflects the society who inhabits it. You got combat zones and peaceful sub-urbs, business centers and recreational districts, shitholes and artificial paradises (heck, there is even a park in 2020 version!). And players are meant to visit all these places one day or another.

Assuming that an introductory paragraph written in order to conjure a specific atmosphere is a hard limit to the scenes you can have in your campaign, is like assuming that all the scenes in a Western RPG must be set at noon or at sunset, with scorching sun as the only possible weather.

Sounds pretty stupid when you apply the same line of thought to other genres, doesn't it?
 
Last edited:

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
Patron
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
13,149
If one takes the time to actually read the Night City sourcebook, a clear idea forms in his mind: It's mostly a beliviable place, a city that reflects the society who inhabits it. You got combat zones and peaceful sub-urbs, business centers and recreational districts, shitholes and artificial paradises (heck, there is even a park in 2020 version!). And players are meant to visit all these places one day or another.
Cyberpunk 2020 included an adventure supplement called Night City Stories (cover art in my previous post) which included a number of descriptions for the GM to read to the players, as well as some solely for the GM. Although not all these descriptions indicate the atmosphere, of those that do include such text:

"Chapter One: The Call to Arms - In which the characters receive a strange telephone call, run about in the rain, ..."
"The thousands of lights in the Night City docklands were not just comforting."
"The constant hiss of the rain bouncing high off cracked asphalt is now the only sound you can hear."
"Above Wilbur's constant chatter, the sound of splashing footsteps can be heard, the sound of a single man running towards the building...Rain drips steadily from the brim of his hat as he closes the door and turns to face you."
"Chapter Two: A Night to Remember - In which the characters meet two women in one pair of shoes, run about in the rain, ..."
"It's late, Baker Street is quiet, and the rain has slowed to a dull drizzle which hangs in the air like mist."
"A long black sedan hushes along the rain-soaked street and pulls up in the arc of soft light which emanates from a nearby street lamp."
"The light which spills through the door is the only illumination for a block and a half which isn't a street light or headlamps."
"The roof of Central II is the largest Night City heliport and as you approach you see perhaps a dozen black-windowed helicopters drop out of the bleach-boned glare that is Night City daytime."
"As Caitlin Jones watched through the hazy droplets of water which covered the images, she realized that it wasn't just rain that was falling...Wiping tears and rain from her eyes, Caitlin hit the ignition."
"The exterior of the hotel Pallazo is busy this time of night."
"Her thoughts were punctuated by the slow and regular dripping of rain water from the roof to the floor."
"Just a shadow in the darkness, the hunched man falls only a hundred meters from the fountain."
"Late at night in the Infocomp offices, Caitlin Jones worked under a single lamp, compiling the data she had just obtained."
"The rain buffets constantly against the shaded glass of the windows and you settle in for the night."
"When you arrive at the address, Holly leads you towards a dark alley."
"As you approach, the floodlights at the front of the building kick on, flooding the area with light and sending beams into the night sky."
"The rain has turned to grey sleet and everything has stopped moving."

One description of daytime sunlight and otherwise it is always either night or raining, if not both. :M The player-characters are expected to operate in typical Cyberpunk conditions, not generally be strolling out in the sun.
 

Tyranicon

A Memory of Eternity
Developer
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
7,859
If one takes the time to actually read the Night City sourcebook, a clear idea forms in his mind: It's mostly a beliviable place, a city that reflects the society who inhabits it. You got combat zones and peaceful sub-urbs, business centers and recreational districts, shitholes and artificial paradises (heck, there is even a park in 2020 version!). And players are meant to visit all these places one day or another.
Cyberpunk 2020 included an adventure supplement called Night City Stories (cover art in my previous post) which included a number of descriptions for the GM to read to the players, as well as some solely for the GM. Although not all these descriptions indicate the atmosphere, of those that do include such text:

"Chapter One: The Call to Arms - In which the characters receive a strange telephone call, run about in the rain, ..."
"The thousands of lights in the Night City docklands were not just comforting."
"The constant hiss of the rain bouncing high off cracked asphalt is now the only sound you can hear."
"Above Wilbur's constant chatter, the sound of splashing footsteps can be heard, the sound of a single man running towards the building...Rain drips steadily from the brim of his hat as he closes the door and turns to face you."
"Chapter Two: A Night to Remember - In which the characters meet two women in one pair of shoes, run about in the rain, ..."
"It's late, Baker Street is quiet, and the rain has slowed to a dull drizzle which hangs in the air like mist."
"A long black sedan hushes along the rain-soaked street and pulls up in the arc of soft light which emanates from a nearby street lamp."
"The light which spills through the door is the only illumination for a block and a half which isn't a street light or headlamps."
"The roof of Central II is the largest Night City heliport and as you approach you see perhaps a dozen black-windowed helicopters drop out of the bleach-boned glare that is Night City daytime."
"As Caitlin Jones watched through the hazy droplets of water which covered the images, she realized that it wasn't just rain that was falling...Wiping tears and rain from her eyes, Caitlin hit the ignition."
"The exterior of the hotel Pallazo is busy this time of night."
"Her thoughts were punctuated by the slow and regular dripping of rain water from the roof to the floor."
"Just a shadow in the darkness, the hunched man falls only a hundred meters from the fountain."
"Late at night in the Infocomp offices, Caitlin Jones worked under a single lamp, compiling the data she had just obtained."
"The rain buffets constantly against the shaded glass of the windows and you settle in for the night."
"When you arrive at the address, Holly leads you towards a dark alley."
"As you approach, the floodlights at the front of the building kick on, flooding the area with light and sending beams into the night sky."
"The rain has turned to grey sleet and everything has stopped moving."

One description of daytime sunlight and otherwise it is always either night or raining, if not both. :M The player-characters are expected to operate in typical Cyberpunk conditions, not generally be strolling out in the sun.

I wish they just explained that away by the climate being polluted so badly that daytime doesn't exist or something a la Blades in the Dark.
 

Fenix

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jul 18, 2015
Messages
6,578
Location
Russia atchoum!
Looks like an actual cyberpunk setting where a society of people in full degeneracy mode actually live and do shit

But it doesn't look like real life?

Wasn't it Gibson who said that "GitS is not cyberpunk"?

Funnily enough, I have read the same in some Russian magazine, about animu or games or both. I don't remember exactly (early 2000), but I do remember this opinion was well reasoned, and it didn't touched the look.
 

KeighnMcDeath

RPG Codex Boomer
Joined
Nov 23, 2016
Messages
15,472
I have to wonder if the more voice acting and more expensive high graphical assets means a rather short or linear game. Seems like a computer robot/program would have to do most the heavy lifting as I see many writers less than competent lately.
 

Dr Schultz

Augur
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
492
If one takes the time to actually read the Night City sourcebook, a clear idea forms in his mind: It's mostly a beliviable place, a city that reflects the society who inhabits it. You got combat zones and peaceful sub-urbs, business centers and recreational districts, shitholes and artificial paradises (heck, there is even a park in 2020 version!). And players are meant to visit all these places one day or another.
Cyberpunk 2020 included an adventure supplement called Night City Stories (cover art in my previous post) which included a number of descriptions for the GM to read to the players, as well as some solely for the GM. Although not all these descriptions indicate the atmosphere, of those that do include such text:

"Chapter One: The Call to Arms - In which the characters receive a strange telephone call, run about in the rain, ..."
"The thousands of lights in the Night City docklands were not just comforting."
"The constant hiss of the rain bouncing high off cracked asphalt is now the only sound you can hear."
"Above Wilbur's constant chatter, the sound of splashing footsteps can be heard, the sound of a single man running towards the building...Rain drips steadily from the brim of his hat as he closes the door and turns to face you."
"Chapter Two: A Night to Remember - In which the characters meet two women in one pair of shoes, run about in the rain, ..."
"It's late, Baker Street is quiet, and the rain has slowed to a dull drizzle which hangs in the air like mist."
"A long black sedan hushes along the rain-soaked street and pulls up in the arc of soft light which emanates from a nearby street lamp."
"The light which spills through the door is the only illumination for a block and a half which isn't a street light or headlamps."
"The roof of Central II is the largest Night City heliport and as you approach you see perhaps a dozen black-windowed helicopters drop out of the bleach-boned glare that is Night City daytime."
"As Caitlin Jones watched through the hazy droplets of water which covered the images, she realized that it wasn't just rain that was falling...Wiping tears and rain from her eyes, Caitlin hit the ignition."
"The exterior of the hotel Pallazo is busy this time of night."
"Her thoughts were punctuated by the slow and regular dripping of rain water from the roof to the floor."
"Just a shadow in the darkness, the hunched man falls only a hundred meters from the fountain."
"Late at night in the Infocomp offices, Caitlin Jones worked under a single lamp, compiling the data she had just obtained."
"The rain buffets constantly against the shaded glass of the windows and you settle in for the night."
"When you arrive at the address, Holly leads you towards a dark alley."
"As you approach, the floodlights at the front of the building kick on, flooding the area with light and sending beams into the night sky."
"The rain has turned to grey sleet and everything has stopped moving."

One description of daytime sunlight and otherwise it is always either night or raining, if not both. :M The player-characters are expected to operate in typical Cyberpunk conditions, not generally be strolling out in the sun.


Leaving aside the fact that you posted an exception to your own rule, which, you know, invalidate ispo facto the rule, you are once again making the assumption that one adventure module is representative of ALL the scenes you can have in a CP campaign; like in my hypothetical and quite dumb western RPG stuck in a perpetual noon.

Let's play a game. Try to describe with the same gloomy and rainy atmosphere the following parts of Night City (all from the Night City Sourcebook):

West Hill:
"Not all of Night City is decaying slums, corporate towers and roving boostergans. Elegant living is the order of the day at West Hill Gardens, as is sophisticated shopping at the boutiques in Pinewood Bazaar. West Hill Gardens takes its name from the luxurious pine trees and shrubbery blanketing the grounds around the executive apartments. Pinewood Bazaar is an underground shopping center, illuminated in the daytime by glass domes set in the pine garden. Together the apartments and bazaar make an integrated community, complete with fitness center and an Episcopalian church, that provides the best in urban living to a pampered corpzoner few."

Exclusive Estate
"The most exclusive corporate-owned suburb in the area, EE caters to only the highest ranking Corpzoners and their assistants. Although it's been nicknamed a "beaverville", the name doesn't really apply to this stately sweep of million dollar homes, lush gardens and parks, huge greenbelts and golf courses, and private AV-pads. EE dwellers are among the very richest people of the Night Ci Area, and have the security and power to make sure they stay undisturbed."

WestWind (this is worst than it looks, but not because of the atmosphere)
"A small beaverville located about two miles from the ocean, advertises a (possible with a telescope). Home to many of the younger corporate techies and engineers, WestWind prides itself on its liberal, enlightened environment. with local art festivals, bookstores and many community events."

Lake Park:
"Designed by Richard Night to be the playground of his model city, the City government officially dedicated Lake Park to his memory. The grandstand that was built in 2014 to commemorate his death still bears a bronze plaque with his name on it; one of the few items of metal in the Park not yet pried off it's fixture and sold by an ambitious punker.

Most of the only natural plant life in Night City grows in the Park. The Park itself is totally man-made, from the lake to the patches of trees, with specially bio-engineered foliage contributed as a gift by the Biotechnica Corpotaion".

Coastview:
An expensive complex of individual beachhouses and recreation centers, protected by a somewhat draconian security contract. When edgerunners get tired of the fast life in the City and want a quiet but trendy place to settle in, this is where they go; such local lights as Johnny Silver-hand and Bes Isis maintain beachfront homes in this development".

Good luck with the park and seaside in particular :)...


Oh, Almost forgot. The weather of Night City is described as follows in the book:

"Night City's Northern Californian location gives it one of the most pleasant climates in the Western part of the US. Normal temperatures range from the mid 80°F to low 50°F (26°C to 10°C), with misty white fog blanketing the City in the early mornings and evenings. Night City receives around 21 inches of rainfall each year." (for comparison, Hong Kong receives more than 4 times this amount of rain and is not REMOTELY like you imagine Night City).
 
Last edited:

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
Patron
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
13,149
You're either willfully obtuse, or simply amazingly stupid, to continue to proclaim that because the Night City setting is not literally shrouded in darkness 24 hours per day that the player-characters aren't expected to operate almost exclusively in gloomy conditions, as described in the Cyberpunk 2013 Welcome to Night sourcebook: "And it always rains. Every day should be grim, gloomy, and overcast. The stars never come out. The sun never shines." All the more so for seeming to think your position is validated because, in the Night City Stories adventure module, a mere 94% of descriptions indicating time of day or weather conditions are either at night, in the rain, or both.

The Night City 2020 sourcebook, unlike its Cyberpunk 2013 predecessor, was written in the style of an in-universe guide to the city, meaning that it describes various locations as they appear to visitors or the general inhabitants who live there, but it should be the rare situation in which the player-characters are operating as run-of-the-mill Night City inhabitants strolling around in sunlight.

Moreover, this is confirmed by the depiction of Night City in color cover art:

166051.jpg


161100.jpg


165896.jpg


cyberpunk-2020-68999_8cd12_1024x1024.jpg
NightCityCover300dpi_large_23757370-1e4d-4c26-8ed7-d46cda5d0e3f_1024x1024.jpg

1-06da343109.jpg


259970.jpg
 
Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Oct 2, 2018
Messages
19,617
the player-characters aren't expected to operate almost exclusively in gloomy conditions, as described in the Cyberpunk 2013 Welcome to Night sourcebook
Which is all fine in narrative driven games like those in the Shadowrun Returns series. Given that this is an open world sort of game though, it'd be retarded to keep things limited to nighttime (although by all means missions could be tied to nighttime when it is thematically appropriate, even GTA3 did that).
 

Dr Schultz

Augur
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
492
You're either willfully obtuse, or simply amazingly stupid, to continue to proclaim that because the Night City setting is not literally shrouded in darkness 24 hours per day that the player-characters aren't expected to operate almost exclusively in gloomy conditions, as described in the Cyberpunk 2013 Welcome to Night sourcebook: "And it always rains. Every day should be grim, gloomy, and overcast. The stars never come out. The sun never shines." All the more so for seeming to think your position is validated because, in the Night City Stories adventure module, a mere 94% of descriptions indicating time of day or weather conditions are either at night, in the rain, or both.

The Night City 2020 sourcebook, unlike its Cyberpunk 2013 predecessor, was written in the style of an in-universe guide to the city, meaning that it describes various locations as they appear to visitors or the general inhabitants who live there, but it should be the rare situation in which the player-characters are operating as run-of-the-mill Night City inhabitants strolling around in sunlight.

Moreover, this is confirmed by the depiction of Night City in color cover art:

166051.jpg


161100.jpg


165896.jpg


cyberpunk-2020-68999_8cd12_1024x1024.jpg
NightCityCover300dpi_large_23757370-1e4d-4c26-8ed7-d46cda5d0e3f_1024x1024.jpg

1-06da343109.jpg


259970.jpg

Sorry man, but what is obtuse here is your insistance in implying that a master should limit his narrative repertoire to dark and rainy scenes, purposely avoiding certain parts or Night City, times of the day, weathers. This would be A) Borderline stupid to do, because it would hamper the narrative for the sake of the mood B) Not reflected in the CP 2020 official material (as shown in my examples) or in the novels that ispered it (if you don't believe me, try to pick a random novel of the sprawl thrilogy). I also doubt the CP Red (2045) is remotely different in these regards...

At best, the example you're quoting is an early attempt of Mike Podsmitsh to conjure a cyberpunk mood by referring to a famous movie (Blade Runner). Nothing that an intelligent narrator would take as an hard limit.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom