Grand Strategy Crusader Kings III

[AgentFransis]

Looks like a mobile porn game.

Art direction is shit. UI redone in an ugly generic fashion by some hack for no apparent reason when they had it pretty much perfect before. Decline in every way.

 

[Theodora]

Eyyyyyyyyyyy, nice to see Insular Christianity get rep'd.

Poganstvo.......really?! LoL that is even new lows for paradox,very lazy shit lol. For those that don't know,the word just means paganism in slav.

What should it be called? Wouldn't have expected it predominant so far west tbh. (Though kinda nice to have Asatru around Kiev.)

Then go map paint EU4

China CK-esque spinoff as its own thing sure. Tacking it onto a game that is focused on mostly western Feudalism is a waste of resources.

I'm not talking about "tacking it on", I'm specifically not wanting it until they can do it justice. But its not irrelevant, and a historic sandbox benefits from as wide an area as possible. It doesn't take a genius to see that artificially cuttinig the world off, as at present, warps what happens.

If Rome had held Parthia for any real amount of time they certainly would've come in contact with the Han, if not conflict; then this wouldn't be a debate (and infact the Chinese did almost come in contact with teh Byzantines during the reign of Justinian, iirc?). The Black Death started in China during the 14th century, while Christianity arrived in the 6th, and became gained a significant presence during 13th century Mongol rule. The various steppe peoples themselves are an argument for this.

It's not about conquering Europe as the Han, it's about letting events one one side of the world echo on the other, as they did.

 

[LizardWizard]

I'm not talking about "tacking it on", I'm specifically not wanting it until they can do it justice. But its not irrelevant, and a historic sandbox benefits from as wide an area as possible. It doesn't take a genius to see that artificially cuttinig the world off, as at present, warps what happens.

Yes you are. You want to the development team to sacrifice months of their paid time on implementing fucking SE Asia in a game series that has been focused on western Feudalism since 2003. Seriously, FUCK OFF. They can improve the game in much better ways.

it's about letting events one one side of the world echo on the other, as they did.

Again, go brainlessly map paint in EU4.

And stay the fuck away from Crusader Kings

Seriously, Shogun 2 and 3Kingdoms sold well enough where Tencent can throw PDX some coin to develop a China focused CK themed game without shitting on established IP.

 

[Theodora]

Jagged edge on the map suggests China etc is going to be added at some point~~

Again, go brainlessly map paint in EU4.

And stay the fuck away from Crusader Kings

what a tough guy, uwu

 

[LizardWizard]

I haven't been paying much attention to this game, but I have an important question for those who have been.

Is Paradox continuing their trend of focusing on multiplayer to the detriment of the single play game (RIP HOI4), or is there hope for this?

Other than fixing CK2's horrible netcode (hopefully) doesn't seem like it. If anything they dialed up the RPG aspects

 

[Jack]

In game called Crusaders Kings we don't need lands the medieval Europeans have no contact with like Burma or West Africa coast what next Iceland in Three Kingdoms? Of course not cause Chinese would stand up against such bullshit. We came to the moment when we have every mudd hut dwelling tribe modeled but still no playable Papacy or Chivalrous Order in game about European Crusades era released years ago and milked with payed DLCs.

Lol, what is scope change. It is no secret that paradox games pivoted from historical strategy to sandboxes for alt. history, and having an arbitarry line in the sand is ahistorical anyway. Complaining about such based on the name is a pretty irrelevant.

Beyond the title, which is only a legacy thing that is used for brand recognition at this point, it is fair to critique the increasing scope, particularly in the context of historical strategy games. As more of the world is included it necessarily follows that rather than increasing the nuance of previously playable entities more of them are simply shoved into the same mold. This is always an issue in games, fidelity and variation versus scope, but if the experience and mechanics don't change very much between playing a East Roman δεσπότης, a Norse jarl and a Chalukya of western India then one might ask what the point is. If the intent is to create a slightly more involved real-time version of Risk, with some surface level regional flavour and a silly life-sim attached then that's fine I suppose, but a title change do seem to be in order if that's the case. However, the reason I played this series of games at all was due to the historical rooting of it, it provided something different than Victoria, Europa Universalis, Hearts of Iron and so on, particular to that period and location. Of course this is only personal preference, but I really would have liked to see the richness of Europe and the Middle-East increased, not just since that was what the original focus of the series was, but also because it would be more interesting to play than what they're now doing now. Or an entirely new game focused on another region during roughly the same period, such as India or the Far East. I hope that makes sense.

It doesn't take a genius to see that artificially cuttinig the world off, as at present, warps what happens.

This is a fair point, but I don't think the game is simulationist enough to justify going global and scripted events are still more interesting than what you'd get out of it, sadly.

 

[fantadomat]

What should it be called? Wouldn't have expected it predominant so far west tbh. (Though kinda nice to have Asatru around Kiev.)

Ahhh most religions don't have inner name and it is what the neighbouring tribes/cultures call it. The most accurate name for it should be Rodoverie since it is combination of high deities and land spirits and creatures. Most of it is still mixed in with the Christianity and part of modern day Slav believes and traditions. Calling it Poganstvo is like calling hellenism "paganismós",it is retarded beyond believe. No fucking Slav is using that word as the name of Slavic religion lol.

 

[Theodora]

Beyond the title, which is only a legacy thing that is used for brand recognition at this point, it is fair to critique the increasing scope, particularly in the context of historical strategy games. As more of the world is included it necessarily follows that rather than increasing the nuance of previously playable entities more of them are simply shoved into the same mold. This is always an issue in games, fidelity and variation versus scope, but if the experience and mechanics don't change very much between playing a East Roman δεσπότης, a Norse jarl and a Chalukya of western India then one might ask what the point is. If the intent is to create a slightly more involved real-time version of Risk, with some surface level regional flavour and a silly life-sim attached then that's fine I suppose, but a title change do seem to be in order if that's the case. However, the reason I played this series of games at all was due to the historical rooting of it, it provided something different than Victoria, Europa Universalis, Hearts of Iron and so on, particular to that period and location. Of course this is only personal preference, but I really would have liked to see the richness of Europe and the Middle-East increased, not just since that was what the original focus of the series was, but also because it would be more interesting to play than what they're now doing now. Or an entirely new game focused on another region during roughly the same period, such as India or the Far East. I hope that makes sense.

I get you, and don't want anything half assed (the complete lack of distinction in the release version of Imperator is exactly the issue you mean, and that's not what I want). But I would like to be hopeful that they're pouring real resources into CK3 (in the long run) given CK2's popularity and longevity on top of their much increased resources since CK2's development.

The fact that they include India at all, to me, demands that China be involved in some sense, and the manner with which it was included in CK2 certainly left one wanting. Having sooo much of the Silk Road and not bothering with China just feels arbitrary to me. And its not even much to add, relatively speaking.

I would also put down to the absence of the Far East as part of why nomadic steppe peoples felt so anemic in CK2, and certainly now that Mongolia proper is on the map, imo it's kinda unthinkable to have that and not go on to include at least China and its tributaries. Tibet similarly felt out of place, yet now the entire Tibetan plateau is included. I don't need to explain why having only Burma is arbitrary.

With that map video and the extremely blatant 'torn edge' to the map, it seems agiven that China is being included, and presumably Viet and friends too, although SEA seems like it might get a miss depending on the map projection.

This is a fair point, but I don't think the game is simulationist enough to justify going global and scripted events are still more interesting than what you'd get out of it, sadly.

You may well be right. I guess I save my rare optimism for games, however undue.

 

[LizardWizard]

extremely blatant 'torn edge' to the map, it seems agiven that China is being included, and presumably Viet and friends too,

5 year dev cycle and they already cut Republics, Nomads, Inventory, Societies and decided not to include Theocracy but China and VeitfuckngNam is a lock?

Great logic

 

[Theodora]

Would make more sense for nomads to come in with China.

We both know that all of that is likely going to be reworked and then released with a DLC lock or an update.

 

[fantadomat]

Would make more sense for nomads to come in with China.

We both know that all of that is likely going to be reworked and then released with a DLC lock or an update.

To be honest,everything in CK2 should be in CK3 to be seen as a real sequel. Otherwise it will be just like imperator,soulless money grab.

 

[LizardWizard]

Would make more sense for nomads to come in with China.

Not really

We both know that all of that is likely going to be reworked and then released with a DLC lock or an update.

Kinda like China was abstracted instead of tacked on to the map and main game. Glad we agree

 

[LizardWizard]

Otherwise it will be just like imperator,soulless money grab.

Doubt you're old enough to have played Eu:R. But CK2 was in dev including DLC for about a decade. EU:R was completely abandoned after 1 expansion, there are still save breaking crash bugs in their last beta patch released.

I:R was basically shit-faced Johan saying, "CK3 looks really fucking cool, I'm gonna fuck up a EU: Rome sequel real quick hold my beer"

 

[razvedchiki]

HOLY SHIT GUISE!!! DID YOU SEE THAT NEXT GEN IMPROVED GAMEPLAY!!!!?!!??!?
THEY HAVE AN ANIMATED LAGERTHA BREATHING IN THE TITLE!!1!!!
GOTY 2020/2021/2022/2023/2024/2025/2026/2027/2028.

 

[Life of the Party]

I don't know about other Slavic languages but in Serbian 'pogan' today means things like 'filthy', 'dirty', 'unclean', 'impure', 'Jewish'. I might've added the last one.

It's like having 'S C U M' written all over Eastern Europe. So, in other words, perfectly legit.

 

[Theodora]

I don't know about other Slavic languages but in Serbian 'pogan' today means things like 'filthy', 'dirty', 'unclean', 'impure', 'Jewish'. I might've added the last one.

To be fair, that isn't that far off the early medieval/Christian meaning of pagan, which was basically rural filth.

 

[vonAchdorf]

Looks like a mobile porn game.

Art direction is shit. UI redone in an ugly generic fashion by some hack for no apparent reason when they had it pretty much perfect before. Decline in every way.

I wouldn't say perfected, the UI was bad on larger / higher resolution screens and the scaling only helped so much - so there was definitely room for improvement. But the CK3 UI wastes too much space - but I like the little UI animations, but that's a personal preference (I liked them in Kingmaker too).

 

[Life of the Party]

What should it be called?

Hard to say. One could probably find some archaic term for ancient folk beliefs but Slavic religion in general is a huge question mark. There is a very strong tendency to force it into the Graeco-Germanic framework with Perun playing the role of Zeus/Odin, both because of the common Indo-European origin as well as the silly notion that having a neat, well-ordered pantheon, particularly one with a thunderer at the top, is something cool and desirable.

I'm not even sure how popular Perun was among my people. It's true that bearded iris is called 'perunika' but it's quite possible, if not probable, that Serbs actually worshipped Svetovid, which may or may not have something to do with the Sarmatian tribe of Serboi. Sarmatian religion however is even more of a question mark so, once again, hard to say.

It's a pity you don't speak Serbian (an unpardonable heresy, by the way) because the Wiki article on Svarog is something else. I presume it was written by a neopagan but it presents a picture of a dreamer comparable to Dunsany's Mana-Yood-Sushai and Lovecraft's Azathoth whose eventual awakening ends all of reality. It also gives his other names as Usud (Fate), Rod (Lineage) and even Bog (God), and tries to link him to the stećci and the Bogomils. Finally, it concludes with an epitaph from one of the stećci:

This world is nothing but a demon's dream.

https://sr.wikipedia.org/sr-el/Svarog

 

[PrettyDeadman]

ЖИВУ В ЛЕСУ,
МОЛЮСЬ КОЛЕСУ.

 

[Fedora Master]

WASTELAND

 

[GrafvonMoltke]

Not interested until the tentacle slavery mod gets ported.

 

[Zariusz]

What should it be called?

Hard to say. One could probably find some archaic term for ancient folk beliefs but Slavic religion in general is a huge question mark. There is a very strong tendency to force it into the Graeco-Germanic framework with Perun playing the role of Zeus/Odin, both because of the common Indo-European origin as well as the silly notion that having a neat, well-ordered pantheon, particularly one with a thunderer at the top, is something cool and desirable.

I'm not even sure how popular Perun was among my people. It's true that bearded iris is called 'perunika' but it's quite possible, if not probable, that Serbs actually worshipped Svetovid, which may or may not have something to do with the Sarmatian tribe of Serboi. Sarmatian religion however is even more of a question mark so, once again, hard to say.

It's a pity you don't speak Serbian (an unpardonable heresy, by the way) because the Wiki article on Svarog is something else. I presume it was written by a neopagan but it presents a picture of a dreamer comparable to Dunsany's Mana-Yood-Sushai and Lovecraft's Azathoth whose eventual awakening ends all of reality. It also gives his other names as Usud (Fate), Rod (Lineage) and even Bog (God), and tries to link him to the stećci and the Bogomils. Finally, it concludes with an epitaph from one of the stećci:

This world is nothing but a demon's dream.

https://sr.wikipedia.org/sr-el/Svarog

And i though that only our retard neopagans in Poland did this shit. Like tracing some medieval noble families to indian gods or other stupid shit.

So Paradox finally divided pomeranians into pomeranians and polabians but they still forgot sorbians (in comparison in eu4, they forgot kashubians, but added sorbians, after 7 years)
Is it really so hard Paradox?
I once added them to HIP (together with changing characters cultures) and it took me like a hour or smt.

Spoiler

BTW HIP province density of Poland is just sad (just look at silesia medieval clusterfuck), and vanilla Ck2 post holy fury province density is better in many regions of map.

And why norse religion is called with some neopagan name?

 

[Ibn Sina]

Paradox removed ships. Your troops instantly board magical ships the moment you move them to the water. That means a landlocked country for ex like poland can launch a massive invasion the moment they have one coastal province.

 

[Delterius]

Does this still look dumb and bad?

 

[Theodora]

And why norse religion is called with some neopagan name?

Paganisms, lacking central authority, don't have an official name. Hellenism is projected name. Asatru at least has a bit more flavour to it than "Pagan (Germanic)".