Grand Strategy Crusader Kings III

[kris]

The thing is, I don't think that could be replicated in at least CK2, as all you need to do in Paradox games to avoid attrition is to spread your army out into smaller forces in other provinces which ignores hard counters like food, things which in EU result in silliness like large armies staying intact rushing across the Sahara or Amazon instead of collapsing from massive loss of life.

I once rage-quitted an EU4 game that was going great, because the Ottomans somehow charged at my glorious Portuguese Empire's territories, namely a bunch of desert... across miles and miles of Scorched Earth Sahara Desert with a 150k army. They barely felt it. In the early 1500s.

SAHARA DESERT. SCORCHED.

150k men walking across around five scorched earth sahara desert provinces

THE SAHARA FUCKING DESERT!

This is in big part due to the AI cheating.

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

sigh you wouldn't believe the good byzantine men I lost marching north through Siberia and east through Afghanistan in EU2 and EU3. Russia is brutal.

Reminds me of the time I tried to play Russia in For The Glory

- Why is my army dying, we aren't even fighting

- Oh right, attrition

- So, its winter and shit. Fine, let's split my stacks.

- Still dying. Split more.

- Still dying. Split again.

- Still dying. Split again!

- 1k! Let's see it die now!

- ... AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND its dying.

Supply Level: 0

Holy shit this Russian Winter crap is for realzies

 

[Fedora Master]

The thing is, I don't think that could be replicated in at least CK2, as all you need to do in Paradox games to avoid attrition is to spread your army out into smaller forces in other provinces which ignores hard counters like food, things which in EU result in silliness like large armies staying intact rushing across the Sahara or Amazon instead of collapsing from massive loss of life.

I once rage-quitted an EU4 game that was going great, because the Ottomans somehow charged at my glorious Portuguese Empire's territories, namely a bunch of desert... across miles and miles of Scorched Earth Sahara Desert with a 150k army. They barely felt it. In the early 1500s.

SAHARA DESERT. SCORCHED.

150k men walking across around five scorched earth sahara desert provinces

THE SAHARA FUCKING DESERT!

There's a reason we call Muslims "sand people"

 

[Wyatt_Derp]

The thing is, I don't think that could be replicated in at least CK2, as all you need to do in Paradox games to avoid attrition is to spread your army out into smaller forces in other provinces which ignores hard counters like food, things which in EU result in silliness like large armies staying intact rushing across the Sahara or Amazon instead of collapsing from massive loss of life.

I once rage-quitted an EU4 game that was going great, because the Ottomans somehow charged at my glorious Portuguese Empire's territories, namely a bunch of desert... across miles and miles of Scorched Earth Sahara Desert with a 150k army. They barely felt it. In the early 1500s.

SAHARA DESERT. SCORCHED.

150k men walking across around five scorched earth sahara desert provinces

THE SAHARA FUCKING DESERT!

Obligatory - 'you live in a fucking desert' reference. Thanks, Sam.

 

[Van-d-all]

The Sims & GRRM sales pitch at the very start pretty much sums up to whom is this game targeted.

 

[Space Satan]

DD schemes

Spoiler

Greetings, dear would-be kings and queens!

I’m Voffvoffhunden (also known as Petter on the discord or even in private life), one of the game’s content designers. Most people probably haven’t seen me around a lot, since I’ve been working on CK3 in secret since the release of HoI4. It’s been a long journey, but it’s been fun to see the game develop and grow over time, and it’s even more fun now that we get to talk about it to all of you! Today, said talking will be about a handful of new features that together cover some of the most important parts of the Crusader Kings experience. So where better to start than with murder?

We’ve all been there. A united Scandinavia is within your grasp, if only it hadn’t been for your meddling siblings! In CK2, these kinds of problems were handled with the gentle application of the “Murder Plot”, as it was popularly called. That system has been expanded and replaced with our brand new Scheme system!

For Crusader Kings 3, we wanted a system that was slightly easier to predict while keeping it unreliable in its outcome, so that murder remains an… option, rather than a safe bet. We also wanted to reduce the number of agents that you need, to make it more valuable to focus on a few candidates close to the victim, rather than having to send messengers with bags of gold to every single courtier and vassal in the land.

All this is achieved through our new Scheme system, where you can use target a character with a Scheme in accordance with your plans, recruit Agents, build up your Scheme Success Chance, and finally achieve your goal. I’ll try to illustrate how it all works by referring to that most iconic of all Schemes: Murder.

By now, the progress bar might have caught your eye. Each month, a Scheme has a chance of progressing one step, with the odds determined by the Owner’s Scheme Power, and the Target’s Scheme Resistance. These two values are based on the relevant Skill (Intrigue in the case of Murder) but are also affected by Spymasters (in the case of Intrigue-type schemes), various modifiers, and of course - the Owner’s Agents. The closer a Murder Scheme’s Agents are to the Target (and the better their Intrigue), the more Scheme Power they add.

Once the Scheme has progressed 10 steps, it tries to execute. The chance of a successful outcome is determined by the Scheme’s Success Chance (which has a slightly different set of modifiers to Scheme Power), while its Secrecy is used to check whether you are discovered or not when you try to execute.

If you’ve gathered capable agents and you’re lucky enough to not get caught, that inheritance will be as good as yours!

As the Scheme's Owner, you are protected from discovery until you actually attempt to execute your scheme. This protection does not extend to your agents, however! And being discovered as a participant in a murder plot is rarely good for one’s reputation, or for one’s habit of seeing sunlight every day.

It is worth noting that when the existence of a Scheme is discovered in this way, its chance of success drops significantly, as the appointed victim makes every preparation possible to foil your plans.

On the other hand, perhaps you’re just not the murderous type? Thankfully the Scheme system is so flexible that it can be used for all manner of long-term interactions. On the opposite end of the spectrum, Seduction makes a return as a Scheme. Seduce does not use Agents in the way Murder does, and it’s not dangerous in the same way… unless your target happens to be married, that is. Achieving success - determined by things such as your skill at seduction, their sexual preference, and whether you get along whatsoever - can net you a new Lover.
I know where your minds are going at that thought, and yes - it’s a great way of acquiring Agents for your Murder Scheme!

Sway is another returning favourite that’s now a Scheme. Sway also doesn't use Agents but largely relies on your Diplomacy instead. It simply progresses towards its execution and then checks whether you successfully improve their opinion or not. Then it loops around and starts over, building up the target’s opinion of you until you stop it -- or commit some horrible diplomatic faux pas...

To add to the convenience, all characters can run one Hostile Scheme (such as murder) and one Personal Scheme (such as Seduction or Sway) at the same time. Unfortunately, you can only target a given character with a single scheme at a time, so you won’t be able to both murder and seduce the same person, just to see which one pays off sooner. You have to do one after the other.

Now, as I indicated earlier, trying to murder someone is usually illegal. (Fun fact: according to Paradox’s legal department this is also the case in real life.) However, if you’re not discovered when you do it, you’re off the hook, right? Not so! Let me introduce you to something that will change the way you nervously glance over your shoulder forever: Secrets!

Characters can acquire Secrets when they do something that is frowned upon or outright illegal. You want to keep your own Secrets close to your chest, while it can be of great benefit to uncover the Secrets of others. By sending your Spymaster to… well, spy, it’s possible to find out what is going on with your annoying vassals, your threatening neighbour, or even at your own court!

So what do you do when you discover a Secret? One possible course of action is to expose it for the world to see, of course! This will apply various effects depending on how serious the Secret is. Being the King’s secret lover will cause a scandal, being a Secret Deviant will leave you with the Deviant trait, while being exposed as a secret murderer is exactly the excuse your Liege has been waiting for to throw you in the dungeon. Not to mention those horrible Kinslaying penalties (“Hey, they’re my family, and I choose what to do with them, okay?”).

The other possible course of action ties into our new evolution of CK2’s Favors. This is now a generalised system called “Hooks”, which come in various flavours. Favors is one of these, while another might represent the loyalty that a House member owes to the House Head.

A Hook is used to force characters to do what you want them to, such as accepting marriage offers, changing your Feudal Contract, or forcing them to join your Scheme as an Agent…

There are Weak and Strong Hooks, where weak Hooks are used up once expended, while Strong Hooks only get a cooldown, ready to be used again later. The source of a Hook determines its strength, and the strongest Hooks come from Blackmailing someone over their most horrible secrets…

You might want to keep hold of a Hook once you have it, though, rather than spending it. Having a Hook on someone can prevent them from taking hostile actions towards you -- particularly useful when dealing with pesky vassals. Be warned, however. While having a strong Blackmail Hook on someone really gives you the upper hand, it will be lost if the Secret you are blackmailing over is exposed.

There are many types of Schemes, Secrets and Hooks in the game, and while it would be entirely possible to list them all, I think it would be way more fun for you to gradually discover them through future dev diaries or once the game is released.

Hopefully, it’s clear by now how everything I have talked about hangs together. Maybe you want to murder someone, so you need some Agents. However, no one wants to join, so you dig for Secrets that can be converted into Blackmail Hooks. Meanwhile, you’re running a Personal Scheme (such as Sway) to increase another potential Agent’s opinion of you, so that you can convince them that -- yes, their Liege really is that bad.

But what if everyone hates you (on account of all the murderin’) and you’re unable to find a single blackmail-worthy speck of dirt on anyone?

Well, in Crusader Kings 3 there might be something you can do about that…

 

[vonAchdorf]

For those who can't into reading, they made a video TL;DR of the DDs:

 

[Life of the Party]

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...l-powerful-vassals-spouse-councillor.1292549/

 

[vonAchdorf]

Sounds good so far.

 

[Average Manatee]

Schemes sound really good. One thing that CK2 could definitely use would be a generic system of "how to accomplish a task that takes time". Right now its always represented by a bunch of events that are generally a pain to code, very unflexible/one dimensional, and end up spamming you with more and more game-pausing popups the more that is going on. Assuming you can do multiple of these at once I can already see it being re-purposed for a lot of event chains like the business one where you sail somewhere to establish a trade agreement.

Achieving success - determined by things such as your skill at seduction, their sexual preference, and whether you get along whatsoever - can net you a new Lover.

Ahh, finally we'll be able to at least have a chance to introduce lesbians to the way of the cock.

 

[Fedora Master]

Nobody ever had bad councilors unless they played in the ass-end of nowhere with a completely dead culture / religion.

Powerful vassals being more important just means they will be more annoying and unreasonable because of Paradox AI/muh MP balancing

 

[Space Satan]

Nobody ever had bad councilors unless they played in the ass-end of nowhere with a completely dead culture / religion.

Powerful vassals being more important just means they will be more annoying and unreasonable because of Paradox AI/muh MP balancing

I had. Because -75 Wants council Position and "army 75% of liege" is worth losing some points

 

[RNGsus]

At that time naval combat was galley banging each other. Tribes banged galleys, kingdoms banged galleys, empires banged galleys. Humanity banged galleys fo, like, thousand years with no change.

So at that time, what you're saying is, naval combat was actual combat, instead of shooting somebody from a mile away.

 

[Space Satan]

At that time naval combat was galley banging each other. Tribes banged galleys, kingdoms banged galleys, empires banged galleys. Humanity banged galleys fo, like, thousand years with no change.

So at that time, what you're saying is, naval combat was actual combat, instead of shooting somebody from a mile away.

Arrows can shoot ~450m in ideal conditions and powerful bow and draw. Usually arrow range was about 250m. And galleys even in roman times had row lines and drummer covered and teams trained in extinguishing fire arrows. By medieval times ramming for destruction were no longer used and galleys used some kind of ramming "nose" which was used as a ladder for assault group toget to impaled galley. There were some kind of assault arbalests aka mini-ballistas but they were mostly boarding.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

fire arrows

No such thing historically, comrade.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

And on that subject,

 

[mondblut]

Reminds me of the time I tried to play Russia in For The Glory

- Why is my army dying, we aren't even fighting

Supply Level: 0

You don't like historical accuracy?

 

[fantadomat]

And on that subject,

Fuck,it is painful to watch that ignorant retard on youtube. Why are you wasting your time with that dumb bastard? First of all flaming and fire arrows are two different things,he is talking about flaming arrows and not about fire arrows. Fire arrows are arrows invented by the chinks that had a bomb/rocket strap on it.

As for flaming arrows,well yeah,they weren't used in medieval times because people got dummer in the dark ages because a lot of knowledge and technology was lost after the fall of the roman empire. That shit was frequently used during ancient/classical periods. They were used mainly for sieges and naval battles. Some times they were used in land battle but that was not because they will burn the enemy lol,how dumb you must be to think that it is going to be used for that lol. They were used as a psychologics warfare. Seeing how the enemy could make the sky burn and rain fire down your head,would scare the living shit out of every tribal retard. They were also used for raiding or if the battle is a easily burnable place,like a wheat field. They weren't used in forests and woods lol,good luck trying to burn a living three,that shit is damp as fuck lol.....maybe during a very dry summer.
Also his arguments are all about using a fucking longbow....and he is dumb enough to not know that longbow was englimen's staple and it came to be actively used in 14th century. This video was so fucking cringy and painful to watch comrade.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

As for flaming arrows,well yeah,they weren't used in medieval times because people got dummer in the dark ages because a lot of knowledge and technology was lost after the fall of the roman empire. That shit was frequently used during ancient/classical periods. They were used mainly for sieges and naval battles. Some times they were used in land battle but that was not because they will burn the enemy lol,how dumb you must be to think that it is going to be used for that lol. They were used as a psychologics warfare. Seeing how the enemy could make the sky burn and rain fire down your head,would scare the living shit out of every tribal retard. They were also used for raiding or if the battle is a easily burnable place,like a wheat field. They weren't used in forests and woods lol,good luck trying to burn a living three,that shit is damp as fuck lol.....maybe during a very dry summer.
Also his arguments are all about using a fucking longbow....and he is dumb enough to not know that longbow was englimen's staple and it came to be actively used in 14th century. This video was so fucking cringy and painful to watch comrade.

Proofs, comrade? And longbow or otherwise, they'd still get extinguished in no time after the arrow is propelled.

 

[fantadomat]

As for flaming arrows,well yeah,they weren't used in medieval times because people got dummer in the dark ages because a lot of knowledge and technology was lost after the fall of the roman empire. That shit was frequently used during ancient/classical periods. They were used mainly for sieges and naval battles. Some times they were used in land battle but that was not because they will burn the enemy lol,how dumb you must be to think that it is going to be used for that lol. They were used as a psychologics warfare. Seeing how the enemy could make the sky burn and rain fire down your head,would scare the living shit out of every tribal retard. They were also used for raiding or if the battle is a easily burnable place,like a wheat field. They weren't used in forests and woods lol,good luck trying to burn a living three,that shit is damp as fuck lol.....maybe during a very dry summer.
Also his arguments are all about using a fucking longbow....and he is dumb enough to not know that longbow was englimen's staple and it came to be actively used in 14th century. This video was so fucking cringy and painful to watch comrade.

Proofs, comrade? And longbow or otherwise, they'd still get extinguished in no time after the arrow is propelled.

There is a plenty of old sources about that shit,but i am too lazy to search for them on the internet,here is one interesting read. You shouldn't take the words of westerners that are giving away their land and women while making money from "entertainment". Their civilizations are past the apogee and are in decline,they can't produce anything worth taking seriously.

https://erenow.net/ancient/greek-fire-poison-arrows-scorpion-bombs/10.php

 

[Van-d-all]

As for flaming arrows,well yeah,they weren't used in medieval times because people got dummer in the dark ages because a lot of knowledge and technology was lost after the fall of the roman empire. That shit was frequently used during ancient/classical periods. They were used mainly for sieges and naval battles. Some times they were used in land battle but that was not because they will burn the enemy lol,how dumb you must be to think that it is going to be used for that lol. They were used as a psychologics warfare. Seeing how the enemy could make the sky burn and rain fire down your head,would scare the living shit out of every tribal retard. They were also used for raiding or if the battle is a easily burnable place,like a wheat field. They weren't used in forests and woods lol,good luck trying to burn a living three,that shit is damp as fuck lol.....maybe during a very dry summer.
Also his arguments are all about using a fucking longbow....and he is dumb enough to not know that longbow was englimen's staple and it came to be actively used in 14th century. This video was so fucking cringy and painful to watch comrade.

Proofs, comrade? And longbow or otherwise, they'd still get extinguished in no time after the arrow is propelled.

There is a plenty of old sources about that shit,but i am too lazy to search for them on the internet,here is one interesting read. You shouldn't take the words of westerners that are giving away their land and women while making money from "entertainment". Their civilizations are past the apogee and are in decline,they can't produce anything worth taking seriously.

https://erenow.net/ancient/greek-fire-poison-arrows-scorpion-bombs/10.php

Then why are they using those bolts? Were they cold?

Spoiler

-- Hauslab, 1442, now in the Royal Armouries, Leeds

 

[fantadomat]

Why the dude just deleted his post,it was interesting?!

Anyway,about the galley slaves not being protected,it really depended on the ship. Many of them had their slaves on the bottom deck,thus they were pretty protected. Also loosing too much galley slaves could fuck up the shit hard because it relies on manpower to move.

Here is really interesting page about roman ships,it is really nice read!

https://www.naval-encyclopedia.com/goodies-naval-encyclopedia/antique-ships/roman-ships/

 

[Athos]

Why the dude just deleted his post,it was interesting?!

Anyway,about the galley slaves not being protected,it really depended on the ship. Many of them had their slaves on the bottom deck,thus they were pretty protected. Also loosing too much galley slaves could fuck up the shit hard because it relies on manpower to move.

Here is really interesting page about roman ships,it is really nice read!

https://www.naval-encyclopedia.com/goodies-naval-encyclopedia/antique-ships/roman-ships/

Slaves were not used as rowers on warships in the classical era. The rowers were free men who fought to defend the ship in case of boarding and in roman imperial time they were enlisted normally in the navy.

 

[Preben]

Using slaves as galley oarsmen was Ottomans' main constribution to the world civilization.

 

[oscar]

Well to be fair they used them as everything militarily but cavalry