Grand Strategy Crusader Kings III

[None]

Whoever at Pdox thinks that I'm going to buy content that is ultimately worse than what I can install for free as a mod is insane. If instead it added playable theocracies and their corresponding events then it'd make sense, but this? Nah.

 

[Axioms]

Whoever at Pdox thinks that I'm going to buy content that is ultimately worse than what I can install for free as a mod is insane. If instead it added playable theocracies and their corresponding events then it'd make sense, but this? Nah.

Too bad the domesticated sheep outnumber the wild goats. You'll get mediocre event packs and you like it, because gods knows 90% of the Paradox fan base will pay.

 

[Üstad]

Mediocre mod tier DLC.

The game will be completed around 4 years. People who payed for this game are voluntarily helping devs to fund this unfinished product.

 

[Fedora Master]

The DLC is missing the point entirely. And all it'll do is add more nonsensical events via forced scripts and with no regard for a characters traits or stats.

 

[dsndo]

Royal Court proved to be a big disappointment. I actively avoid holding court or engaging in any of the Court events because they are invariably banal or non-sensical. I just finished watching a Youtube documentary on the first crusade. So many unexpected twists and turns, events that forced difficult decisions onto the leaders of the crusade. Betrayals, unexpected bad weather, disease, negotiations with the natives, interference from religious authorities, rivals setting aside their history and trying to maintain a tenuous peace to accomplish a shared goal. I could go on and on.

The millennial female writers Paradox employs have no place writing stories set during the crusades because they have no interest in the time period. There are so many great events you could rip straight from the history books and instead they focus on petty household drama that wouldn't be out of place in a soap opera. And now they announce a DLC doubling down on this nonsense, it's laughable.

 

[AdamReith]

It's like the pot hole CK2 managed to avoid by the skin of its teeth, CK3 just barrelled right into.

Once it all starts to feel "silly" or "gamey" it just loses so much as an experience.

Though honestly some of the CK2 events were a bit stupid, like almost every single character getting a shot at the immortality event.

 

[thesecret1]

It's like the pot hole CK2 managed to avoid by the skin of its teeth, CK3 just barrelled right into.

Once it all starts to feel "silly" or "gamey" it just loses so much as an experience.

Though honestly some of the CK2 events were a bit stupid, like almost every single character getting a shot at the immortality event.

Yeah, not to mention bullshit like Devil Worshippers. Fortunately, you could turn off most of it in the settings. Really liked that they allowed to simply switch off that, and other retarded "content".

 

[Alienman]

CK2 with expansions I thought also got a bit gamey. With a lot of "mana" like points to spend on bonuses. Not very simulation like.

 

[thesecret1]

CK2 with expansions I thought also got a bit gamey. With a lot of "mana" like points to spend on bonuses. Not very simulation like.

You mean the societies, and the China shit, right? The societies were all shit anyway save for the warrior lodges, but the China stuff was pretty bad due to how large the rewards could be from using it (especially artifacts). Still, neither really broke the game too much, and they allowed modders to go to town with them.

 

[Alienman]

CK2 with expansions I thought also got a bit gamey. With a lot of "mana" like points to spend on bonuses. Not very simulation like.

You mean the societies, and the China shit, right? The societies were all shit anyway save for the warrior lodges, but the China stuff was pretty bad due to how large the rewards could be from using it (especially artifacts). Still, neither really broke the game too much, and they allowed modders to go to town with them.

Could be, long time since I played now. But I remember it was something with religion too, how you collected points to do stuff.

 

[Average Manatee]

IIRC they nerfed all of the devil worshipper stuff so that it'd kill you (either literally or by making all your vassals hate you) pretty quickly. And while the china stuff was generally powerful, the overall powercreep was lessened a ton by later introduced inventory system which limited how many bonuses you could stack (can't wield 30 swords at the same time after all). Plus China is a good final boss if for some reason you want to powergame and have an actual challenge to end with. And there were other DLCs and updates completely dedicated to making the game harder, like Conclave and Reaper's Due (and sunset invasion lol).

CK3's issue is that the core gameplay design is just easy with all of the RNG removed and next to no risk involved. Genetic breeding is simple and reliable to great god children by your 2nd or 3rd generation. Developing a character is very easy with the focus trees. You have plots like sway that are basically a 100% guarantee to get anyone to like you very quickly. All it takes is money and picking the right bonuses to make your armies have 10x the offense and defense per soldier as other armies, and your knights can basically play dynasty warriors in battle. None of these are going to work without a fundamental redesign.

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

It's like the pot hole CK2 managed to avoid by the skin of its teeth, CK3 just barrelled right into.

CKII almost died when the game ran into so much technical debt during the Horse Lords era, it was unplayable. Made Stellaris Megacorp 2.2 look playable.

Once it all starts to feel "silly" or "gamey" it just loses so much as an experience.

Agreed, Simulationism >>> Arcade/Gamey design.

The societies were all shit anyway save for the warrior lodges

Hermetics were neat tho.
The normal monastic societies were kinda lame ngl.
I feel like Catholicism really lacked Chivalric Orders, National Religious Orders and such. Pagans got the Warrior Lodge which allowed you to make super martial duellers who went around killing dudes, but Christians got literally nothing martial-wise. Granted, Warrior Lodges should't have been replicated 1:1 for Christians, but the game really needed militant societies for catholics.

IIRC they nerfed all of the devil worshipper stuff so that it'd kill you (either literally or by making all your vassals hate you) pretty quickly.

Yeah, Devil Worshipper had good rewards but good risks too.
I think my main use of the Devil Worshippers was kidnapping women with good traits (especially cute dark-skinned women) and turning them into wives and concunbines for my eugenics programs.
"How does kidnapping a genius woman from Axum serve the cause of Satan?"
"Satan?"

 

[HeroMarine]

I feel like Catholicism really lacked Chivalric Orders, National Religious Orders and such

Paradox cucked hard on the Deus Vult and Crusader aspect of the game. Remember the devs are atheist commies at best when not true-believing satanists.

 

[Üstad]

Having universal lodges in medieval age, where economies and army structures were mostly local was pure retardation. I hope they don't implement in that way in CKIII.

 

[DesolationStone]

The main problem of Paradox's it's that, since I've started playing them in the distant 2015, they're becoming year by year more focused on the sandbox-story elements than the actual gameplay one.
- HOI4 --> at launch less functions that even Hearts of Iron 2, but with the focus tree now you can play with Austria-Hungarian Empire during the WW2 (who asked?) or the nine thousand "what if" mod on the workshop.
- Stellaris --> launched with a lot of promising mechanics, they reinvented four times the core mechanics and at the end they decided, without any control or decency, to add story elements and furry aliens
- EU4 --> IDK his actual status but I remember the terrible launch of a dlc one year ago
- CK3 --> literally one year for an expansion that add NOTHING regarded the gameplay but just what if material and story events related to your characters that after five game years becomes tedious and repetitive. Literally this game it's becoming a spin-off of the Sims

 

[thesecret1]

- HOI4 --> at launch less functions that even Hearts of Iron 2, but with the focus tree now you can play with Austria-Hungarian Empire during the WW2 (who asked?) or the nine thousand "what if" mod on the workshop.
- Stellaris --> launched with a lot of promising mechanics, they reinvented four times the core mechanics and at the end they decided, without any control or decency, to add story elements and furry aliens
- CK3 --> literally one year for an expansion that add NOTHING regarded the gameplay but just what if material and story events related to your characters that after five game years becomes tedious and repetitive. Literally this game it's becoming a spin-off of the Sims

It seems to me they're chasing the reddit crowd that just wants to post memes about how they reformed the HRE during WW2 and similar retarded shit. Or seducing the pope while cucking the king of England while playing as a nigger midget in Mali, and similar garbage.

- EU4 --> IDK his actual status but I remember the terrible launch of a dlc one year ago

Current status is it's gamey as fuck. Almost no simulation left whatsoever, it's all about mana, mana, mana everywhere, and the DLCs only put even more emphasis on that. Was released too early to be in on the meme-y trend of the other games mentioned, but it was spearheading the push towards gamification over simulation, and sure looks the part. Currently only enjoyable with some extensive total conversion mods.

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

I feel like Catholicism really lacked Chivalric Orders, National Religious Orders and such

Paradox cucked hard on the Deus Vult and Crusader aspect of the game. Remember the devs are atheist commies at best when not true-believing satanists.

True, but this refering to CKII Societies.

Having universal lodges in medieval age, where economies and army structures were mostly local was pure retardation. I hope they don't implement in that way in CKIII.

Yeah, that was weird. It would make more sense if they were regional as a rule, with only a few being universal - like Satanists and Hashashins. Warrior Lodges weren't as bad because there were multiple pagan religions and most of them are pretty local. But all of Europe should't be part of the same church society like some illuminati bullshit

 

[Üstad]

Yeah, that was weird. It would make more sense if they were regional as a rule, with only a few being universal - like Satanists and Hashashins. Warrior Lodges weren't as bad because there were multiple pagan religions and most of them are pretty local. But all of Europe should't be part of the same church society like some illuminati bullshit

It should be distance based, roads including old roman roads, sea routes between ports, being a nomadic herder state, should lessen the abstract "distance points", lack of authority, chaos, banditry etc should add "distance points". This is not for just lodges it's basically about creating natural way to simulate the medieval era.

During the time of Otto the Great, the guy basically had to live his life on the horseback to keep his subjects in check and consolidate conquered lands. Meanwhile church was weak, forget about being stronger side in investiture crisis, Otto the Great made the pope his bitch and freely appointed clergies in his lands. A few centuries before Otto the Great, the church was even weaker, hence there were "celtic christianity" in Britain (I'm aware of that's a bullshit term) because Rome's influence couldn't consolidate any power in outskirts of Europe during that time.

Setting up arbitrary fixed regions won't solve the problem, it'll add another layer of problems. Though my suggestion is far from perfect, it'll be closer to being realistic experience to simulate the medieval era.

 

[DesolationStone]

Yes, another problem with this game is distance.
I found my duchy of Lombardy had fallen in love with the Armenian queen, like, Jesus:

 

[Axioms]

People who think Paradox games are simulations are just idiots. They've always been idle games with a map attached. Build up various mana and stats and tiny modifiers and snowball over time. Literally the paragon of idle games.

Go play Arcanum: Theory of Magic, free open source mage tower and text adventure idle game, and compare furniture to ideas, upgrades to decisions, class to government types, etc in EU4. Like sure EU4 is the most idle-game like but they are all similar in their core gameplay.

 

[Delterius]

And while the china stuff was generally powerful, the overall powercreep was lessened a ton by later introduced inventory system which limited how many bonuses you could stack (can't wield 30 swords at the same time after all).

nevermind the items the real deal were the Belt And Road Initiative loans (master engineer)

 

[Average Manatee]

And while the china stuff was generally powerful, the overall powercreep was lessened a ton by later introduced inventory system which limited how many bonuses you could stack (can't wield 30 swords at the same time after all).

nevermind the items the real deal were the Belt And Road Initiative loans (master engineer)

True but the main thing you got from that was tech points and tech still takes forever to really get a lot of. Being overpowered 150 years after the start of the game is pretty much inevitable with or without it.

 

[Popiel]

I feel that CK3's lifespan is at the moment massively damaged by one other factor, not counting obvious Paradox's incompetency and bad pipeline management: and by that factor I mean they way big mods are handled in this iteration. One of the biggest strengths of CK2 were its many big, expansive total conversion mods, which were quite literally almost different games on CK2 engine. AtE, aGoT, EK1 and so on. The way in which sequels to these mods are developed in CK3 is borderline ridiculous. Aside from one exception (LotR mod, devs are great people) all of these mods chose the perfectionist's approach: we either release a full, complete, 1.0 version of the mod or we do not release it at all. It's the worst possible outcome, first of all because of an obvious feature creep and other maladies which plague these mods right now, secondly because CK3 right now is not only quite barebones as a game - it also lacks interesting mods to keep the playerbase active and engaged. I'm not quite sure when modders who make all these huge mods mistaken themselves for real game developers, but this really needs to stop.

 

[Delterius]

And while the china stuff was generally powerful, the overall powercreep was lessened a ton by later introduced inventory system which limited how many bonuses you could stack (can't wield 30 swords at the same time after all).

nevermind the items the real deal were the Belt And Road Initiative loans (master engineer)

True but the main thing you got from that was tech points and tech still takes forever to really get a lot of. Being overpowered 150 years after the start of the game is pretty much inevitable with or without it.

It does help with some key stuff, like Trade for MRs and Military Organization. Bonus points if you're developing a shithole capital. If you get lucky with the master engineer modifiers you'll be a century ahead of bagdad/constantinople 20 years in.

Plus it's kinda funny to have such great hospitals that the black death just ignores your capital. Though this is very much 'long term'.

I do agree it's a win-more situation though.

 

[mondblut]

Aside from one exception (LotR mod, devs are great people) all of these mods chose the perfectionist's approach: we either release a full, complete, 1.0 version of the mod or we do not release it at all.

They should have learned from their betters by releasing an alpha then fleshing it out with 500 DLCs.