Incline Colony Ship RELEASE THREAD

[Beans00]

I will delete this part of the post as it was partially made in error

Lhynn Maybe harsh, I would say VD has shown he can create interesting worlds. Not interesting characters however.

 

[Infinitron]

You said no one would care about JarlFrank's opinions, when he gave an in depth breakdown on the problems he has with ITS game(s). If anyone is trolling I would say it's you.

I said that he doesn't like ITS-style RPGs. which he's clearly explained that he doesn't. You respond about him "not hating AoD". ???

I want the opinion of a legit AoD fan who thinks CS wasn't as good. That's more interesting to me!

 

[JarlFrank]

"I disagree with almost every design decision" but he doesn't hate it. Okay!

I don't, in fact, hate it.

I actually liked Colony Ship - at least the first half - more than AoD because it felt like Iron Tower were slightly moving away from their worst mistakes.
But then the second half hit and they did the same railroading that made AoD feel like a CYOA again.

Both are games with great settings and massive potential sabotaged by very rigid approaches to structure that do more harm than good.

 

[Beans00]

You said no one would care about JarlFrank's opinions, when he gave an in depth breakdown on the problems he has with ITS game(s). If anyone is trolling I would say it's you.

I said he doesn't like ITS-style RPGs. which he's clearly explained. You respond about him "not hating AoD". ???

I want the opinion of a legit AoD fan who thinks CS wasn't as good. That's more interesting to me!

"JarlFrank doesn't like ITS-style RPGs at all, so why would he like Colony Ship?
What's interesting is the opinions of people who liked Age of Decadence but don't like Colony Ship."


Well for starters re reading your post I may have jumped the gun on you, I believed you were insinuating that no one would find jarlfrank's insight interesting. Unless that is what you were actually doing.


Also it's possible to dislike or even hate several mechanics of something and still enjoy the overall product. I come off as harsh on AOD in the screencap I posted, but I genuinely enjoyed the game despite my fairly massive problems with it. The combat, setting, atmosphere were enough for me to finish the game, and likely do another type of character at some point in the future. The setting was also enough for me to be interested in Dungeon rats(which I enjoyed a lot).


Colony ship I dropped within 5 hours, and in my opinion it had almost nothing going for it in comparison.

 

[Grauken]

Both are games with great settings and massive potential sabotaged by very rigid approaches to structure that do more harm than good.

Yeah, that perfectly encapsulates how I feel about ITG. Supported all their games on GOG and Steam because I think we need lots of different approaches to cRPGs for the genre to remain healthy, but the games themselves just aren't much fun, setting alone can't save that. In the end, I had the most fun with Dungeon Rats

 

[Infinitron]

To me, ITS RPGs are meant to be "power player simulators" where the player character isn't meant to sweat the finer details of murderhobo adventuring. Even if you're in some sort of dungeon, you're there to do Power Player Stuff - to discover lore and activate ancient artifacts, not to peek around corners, light torches and push crates.

That was the crux of my disagreement with JarlFrank in the Space Wreck thread last year: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...spired-by-fallout.121073/page-39#post-8709211

 

[lukaszek]

What's interesting is the opinions of people who liked Age of Decadence but don't like Colony Ship.

that would be me I guess. Colony ship got little in common with aod. AoD2 for me was space wreck.

 

[Darth Roxor]

I don't understand how someone could fuck something up over such a long period of time

i would assume one team member dying and another (i think) living in ukraine might have had something to do with it

 

[Darth Roxor]

I only played beta but i think in terms of writing it's also bad timing. In aod era being edgy was cool, but as we all get older and closer to turning to dust, all asshole approach looks shallower by the day. It's same in all media. People want the return of escapism, and also hopeful and noble things.

Also the same thought was what made me realise why I dislike this game so strongly. It's simply... disgusting, depressing and dirty. It's not even grimdark. It's just the gaming equivalent of ruski army boot camp where everyone yells at you and forces you to eat shit all the time. It perplexes me that someone might find this kind of thing fun.

 

[Saduj]

Dude literally link an insightful post you have made about any game, or mechanics for any game.

Oh, FFS, at least he's not challenging someone else's credibility while hiding under JarlFrank's skirts.

I also have to wonder if some of the people here complaining about Colony Ship's bleakness are aware of how their own posting histories read.

It is a good game, not perfect, but very good. It is a shame that ITS likely won't be making another.

 

[Drowed]

Both are games with great settings and massive potential sabotaged by very rigid approaches to structure that do more harm than good.

I honestly understand that the rigidity of the AOD and CS systems is necessary to some extent. Being able to interact organically with the world is obviously a huge advantage, but the investment required to do it well is too great for small groups. If you don't watch out, when you look around you are an Encased: a game that has a great proposal on paper and seems to check all the boxes, but in practice it is deficient in almost everything it sets out to do.

I can't speak for other players and I don't know why CS performed so poorly, but I can talk about my personal experience with the game (so far, I haven't had time to finish the game yet). I like VD's writing style and I think he has a unique way of narrating events and stories, but the nihilistic and pessimistic way that comes across in the settings he creates ends up being a bit repetitive. Yes, I know that AOD is set in a post-apocalyptic world, but when every NPC you talk to has basically the same attitude (fuck you, fuck the world, fuck everything) the experience is diminished. In AOD, this was the first experience we had with this style, so there was some novelty here.

But in CS, especially after DR, you didn't have the effect of first contact. I wanted to be able to like some character, be invested, but I can't even see them as characters and more as content dispensers. VD has previously stated that he was not interested in telling romantic stories, which I completely agree with, but I think his stories end up lacking a human aspect. It feels more like you're reading a review or summary of a story than actually being a part of it. Relationships between characters can transcend something merely circumstantial and transactional, friendship and camaraderie are also natural parts of human beings - even in the most difficult situations. In fact, I believe many would say especially in those situations.

But I don't know if changing just that would be enough to drastically change the sales results, probably not. It's probably like VD said, the kind of game he wants to make isn't the kind of game people want to buy. That's it. He could be more successful with something different, but if what motivated him to become a developer in the first place is to be able to create a specific type of experience, it sounds counterproductive. It's a shame, because despite my criticisms AOD is one of my favorite RPGs and I really liked the setting of CS and I would like to see how the continuation of this universe would be. It's a shame, but things are the way they are.

 

[Riddler]

The old codexers I was referring to are Tacgnol and JarlFrank . I got them both to post in the thread and share their opinions(JF more in depth).

JarlFrank doesn't like ITS-style RPGs at all, so why would he like Colony Ship?

What's interesting is the opinions of people who liked Age of Decadence but don't like Colony Ship.

I think the answer is that most people are secret story fags and the premise and execution is less interesting here. Compare post apocalyptic Roman empire with magic and tech+ai+magic Aztec invaders+sleeping gods+cosmic horror to a colony ship that had a mutiny (+very foreseeable "twist"). The writing of the characters is still compelling enough but when that kind of peters out and you get very little more once you leave the first area it just isn't interesting enough. I realise that you wanted to keep it grounded but I feel like the plot was much too simple, it didn't propel you forward and this is a big issue when the game is somewhat of a linear affair as opposed to an open world adventure.


That people seemingly don't care about the improved combat says a lot.

 

[Beans00]

Dude literally link an insightful post you have made about any game, or mechanics for any game.

Oh, FFS, at least he's not challenging someone else's credibility while hiding under JarlFrank's skirts.

Well for starters. I admit I jumped the gun on Infinitron, and I apologized to him in discord dms.

Secondly I value JarlFrank's opinions on rpgs and consider him a friend and ally against decline. Deal with it, idiot.

Thirdly I don't understand what people posting histories have to do with colony ship's bleakness. This is a schizo point for you and I suspect you don't know what you mean by that either.

Fouth, if the game was 'good' objectively it would be more popular on here, and in general. Instead the game is a failure cope with it or deal with it.

Fifth I do agree it is a shame they are not making another game. I liked dungeon rats and I liked AOD well enough. I would have been interested in their next project regardless of CS's poor quality.

Sixth ..i..

 

[Jaedar]

I want the opinion of a legit AoD fan who thinks CS wasn't as good. That's more interesting to me!

What do you wish to know child?

I only played beta but i think in terms of writing it's also bad timing. In aod era being edgy was cool, but as we all get older and closer to turning to dust, all asshole approach looks shallower by the day. It's same in all media. People want the return of escapism, and also hopeful and noble things.

Also the same thought was what made me realise why I dislike this game so strongly. It's simply... disgusting, depressing and dirty. It's not even grimdark. It's just the gaming equivalent of ruski army boot camp where everyone yells at you and forces you to eat shit all the time. It perplexes me that someone might find this kind of thing fun.

Eh, there's maybe something to this but I think it doesn't capture the whole issue to just say "edgy was cool back then and now its not". I think part of it is that AoD had some assholes that were fun (militades, feng) and CS kinda doesn't. Another part is that it's less novel the second time around (also fantasy dystopia is kinda rare whereas for scifi dystopia is basically the default these days). AoD also had some variety in that you spent some time reading/interacting with the pre-fall empire and its artifacts, which was not GRIMDARK but the colony ship was an oppressive hellscape before the mutiny, and a slowly dying shitstain after.

 

[Velut]

A lot of people here say that all characters in Colony Ship are just assholes, but we have a lot of positive characters like Faythe, Luther, Carlos and his team. I think Iron Tower improved much in character variety compare to AoD.

 

[Alienman]

It's simple. @Vault Dweller, for all his criticism of various well liked RPG's on here (Specifically the baldurs gate series). For all his pretentiousness. He can't write for shit.
You can see this because 95% of characters in AOD, DR and CS are the exact same 'nihilistic asshole'. Over and fucking over.

Look at fallout. In the den Metzger is an asshole, becky and mom are nice. Smitty is nice. Joey is a delinquent. Frankie is an asshole. Ect, the area is loaded with different types of characters. Ditto for the hub, junktown, ncr, the brotherhood, ect.

In ITS games you have. Asshole #1-#15. That's it. So while the settings can be well done, I thought the idea of a colony ship ala marathon was a super interesting idea. I thought the post apoc roman world was again a super interesting idea. The actual interaction within the game is boring and predictable. Even the choices you make usually revolved around you being an asshole and betraying someone, or reacting to someone betraying you. Have some variety.

 

[Saduj]

Thirdly I don't understand what people posting histories have to do with colony ship's bleakness. This is a schizo point for you and I suspect you don't know what you mean by that either.

This doesn't apply to everyone saying the setting was depressing but some of those people are an unending fountain of negativity so I find it odd that they would complain about the same in fictional characters. I wouldn't so proudly flaunt an inability to understand very simple things if I were you.

Fouth, if the game was 'good' objectively it would be more popular on here, and in general. Instead the game is a failure cope with it or deal with it.

Plenty of people liked the game. They said as much and moved on. Probably playing something else now. Have you never read a thread here? They all devolve into negativity once people who like playing RPGs move on to something else.

 

[Tyranicon]

Very high effort shitpost.

The chef's kiss is that you signed it :D.

 

[Agesilaus]

A true CRPG fan understands there are many types of arseholes. Miltiades is a different sort of arsehole than Feng, for example, but both are liars who want you to kill people for them. Although... is Miltiades a liar if he genuinely believes his insanity?


ITS produces the most diverse cast of arseholes you'll find in any game. We need ITS, Long live branching stories and multiple factions, Long live turn based combat, Long live arseholes!

 

[Geckabor]

Chapter 1 of Colony Ship is my favorite ITS game. The learn-by-doing system really worked well with the fairly open structure it had. Had the whole game been more open, this would have easily gotten my GOTY vote and maybe even gotten into my top 10 RPGs of all time. Oh well.

 

[thesecret1]

Chapter 1 of Colony Ship is my favorite ITS game.

Yeah, I also liked Chapter 1 of the Colony Ship. Too bad there's not a chapter two – the game just suddenly ends right after you enter Factory, haha. Imagine how great the game would be if it had more chapters.

 

[AdolfSatan]

I want the opinion of a legit AoD fan who thinks CS wasn't as good. That's more interesting to me!

While not reaching the point of insanity of some of its more rabid fans, I think AoD is great. Enough that I played it various times to see all the varied routes the game could take. DR is an amazing dungeon crawl too, tho I didn’t see a point in replaying it.

CS wasn’t just not-as-good. It’s a mediocre game, for all the reasons everyone else has already outlined (XP system, front-loaded, railroaded, monotonous, etc.). There isn’t much to add to that.
I would still support ITS if they were to develop another game tho.

 

[Tavar]

Colony Ship scored place three in the 2023 goty awards. Vault Dweller this will surely boost sales dramatically, so not all hope is lost yet.

 

[Serus]

The learning by doing system was supposed to circumvent AoD's problem of saving up points, waiting until you know what you need to invest them in, and then ruthlessly minmax to get through the game.

Tbh I found this aspect to be part of the fun, especially on later playthroughs. It didn't need fixing.

Or you could just make so that you have to invest all points the moment you get them. You know like most(?) games do.

 

[JarlFrank]

The learning by doing system was supposed to circumvent AoD's problem of saving up points, waiting until you know what you need to invest them in, and then ruthlessly minmax to get through the game.

Tbh I found this aspect to be part of the fun, especially on later playthroughs. It didn't need fixing.

Or you could just make so that you have to invest all points the moment you get them. You know like most(?) games do.

Terrible idea considering AoD doesn't really let you know which skills you need at which point, you have to enter the actual dialog windows to know what you need and then spec accordingly.