Incline Colony Ship RELEASE THREAD

[Iluvcheezcake]

Overall I really liked the game, one of the rare games i played extensively during EA. It scratched my minmaxxer autistic itch pretty hard

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Nobody except a few autists on this forum wants to play an RPG with shitty CYOA events that remove player agency.

Sadly that's me 100% and I can't get hard unless my character in a game passes an arousal check and CS was a crushing disappointment to me. Dunno how I went from multiple AoD playthroughs to playing through and enjoying Dungeon Rats to not giving enough of a shit for a single playthrough of CS, but here I am. Probably will grit my teeth and go through at some point but since more companion dialog's being added in patches I may as well just keep waiting, then maybe once all the patching is done I'll be interested in any of the characters.

 

[Grauken]

Nobody except a few autists on this forum wants to play an RPG with shitty CYOA events that remove player agency.

C&C inanity driven to its logical conclusion

 

[lukaszek]

maybe once all the patching is done I'll be interested in any of the characters.

no companions, pretend its aod2 till the very end

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

maybe once all the patching is done I'll be interested in any of the characters.

no companions, pretend its aod2 till the very end

Sadly I enjoyed AoD's writing more so even solo it felt like there was fun shit happening/to do all the time. It's possible that I stopped playing before I hit the fun shit in CS, but I got into the big central city area and was presented with "Hello newcomer come do spywork for us" quests for multiple factions after having multiple of my own "What's a paladin"-tier questions for shit my character's supposed to already know and I just couldn't stomach it. Those really chapped my ass, you're given DM narration for some things and are told that you're an established stalker or whatever the fuck they're called and rather than just giving you some DM exposition telling you things your character already knows you get dumbass questions the NPCs even comment GEE BUDDY WHY YOU ASKING THAT YOU'RE ONE OF THOSE THINGS YOU'RE ASKING ABOUT. There's of course the option to NOT click retarded questions, but then so much of the dialog felt so barebones I wanted to make sure there wasn't something juicy nested in the options. There's also just killing everyone but similar to Beans I didn't like CS's combat compared to AoD/DR.

 

[Shadenuat]

I only played beta but i think in terms of writing it's also bad timing. In aod era being edgy was cool, but as we all get older and closer to turning to dust, all asshole approach looks shallower by the day. It's same in all media. People want the return of escapism, and also hopeful and noble things.

 

[Lord_Potato]

I only played beta but i think in terms of writing it's also bad timing. In aod era being edgy was cool, but as we all get older and closer to turning to dust, all asshole approach looks shallower by the day. It's same in all media. People want the return of escapism, and also hopeful and noble things.

Maybe you

 

[The_Sloth_Sleeps]

This is going to be harsh, but if you wanted to make more games, you should have made better games.

Atom and Underrail are slightly larger and I believe slightly smaller teams. Their games are more successful because they managed to find their own niche and actually make something players wanted. Atom made east slav fallout, then did it again. Now they're making east slav baldurs gate. Underrail made serbian tunnel simulator, and they made 2 expansions and are doing it again with a full sequel.

Nobody except a few autists on this forum wants to play an RPG with shitty CYOA events that remove player agency. No one wants to play an rpg where every single character is generic nihilistic autist. It's pure trash design and writing. For all the interesting world building in AOD and even CS it's undermined by how retarded every character is.

Somehow the strongest part of AOD/DR was the combat. Not sure how ITS managed it but despite some annoying railroaded encounters because the devs don't understand player agency. I found it to be consistently pretty fun. Now the combat in CS is garbage and basically feels like a worse version of dead state.

It frankly boggles my mind that ITS didn't fix the flaws AOD had, and instead doubled down on them and spent 5 years making a somehow worse game.

Indeed. I also have some harsh words. It boggles my mind how CS could have been fucked up so badly. Its a poor game. Not desperately bad no, but poor. Even the excuses offered are as lukewarm as CS "we don't have resources" drip drip yet any other "real" indie is gonna have to operate on much less time and manpower and can still deliver much more. I don't understand how someone could fuck something up over such a long period of time either and have these drippy excuses. I am sure it must have gone wrong a long time ago but there was no one point that they ever recognized that they had drifted far to far off course to make corrections. This would at least explain the dev seemingly wishing this to not get enough money to continue.

 

[JarlFrank]

I'm also not sure learn-by-doing was a good choice. It really felt like you had to grognard your way through the game at points.

The learning by doing system was supposed to circumvent AoD's problem of saving up points, waiting until you know what you need to invest them in, and then ruthlessly minmax to get through the game.

But because Colony Ship is similarly railroaded as AoD and has equally harsh skill checks, it basically means you want to perform every possible skill check in the game if you can pass it. Find a lock you can pick? You will pick it for the XP. Not because you want what's in there, nor as a role-playing choice that your character would realistically choose to do. You do it purely because you NEED the skill experience.

You can't skip past optional content, especially when that content potentially gives XP to your main skills, because every bit of it is needed.

 

[Konjad]

Iron Tower Studio made only one great game and it was Dungeon Rats. Nothing they would promise would get me much excited except Dungeon Rats 2.

Perhaps that's the way. It's cheaper and they made a great combat system that just works perfectly.

(Don't do Colony Ship Rats though, that combat was mediocre)

 

[JarlFrank]

Nobody except a few autists on this forum wants to play an RPG with shitty CYOA events that remove player agency.

C&C inanity driven to its logical conclusion

Yes, the main problem with both AoD and CS is that they hyperfocus on one specific RPG feature to the detriment of everything else.

There is some exploration, but it takes a backseat compared to the C&C. Interactions with NPCs and factions are heavily railroaded into providing C&C moments. And all the C&C is pretty heavily telegraphed. There's little exploration connected to them.

Compare this to a side quest from Arcanum that feels super inconsequential in the grand scheme but has so many little differences based on how you play it out.
Gnome wizard wants you to destroy steam engine!
- destroy it and kill the dwarf who guards it, nobody knows you did it, you can get a quest to repair it
- destroy it but leave the dwarf alive, the constable now hates you because he knows you did it
Afterwards, the gnome wizard gives you a little delivery quest.
But ho! If you repair the steam engine he considers you a flip-flopping traitor and doesn't want to talk to you anymore.
His little delivery quest will result in him figuring out the formula to turn lead into gold btw, which is mentioned in an ending slide.

Super tiny side quest but it has so much variation just based on how you approach each step, and in which order you do other adjacent quests.

In AoD or CS, most of these choices would be spelled out for you in dialog boxes.
In Arcanum, the choice of killing or sparing the dwarf is as simple as attacking or not attacking him in the combat system. You attack the steam engine to destroy it, then you can just leave the building.

Iron Tower design doesn't let you just attack objects or NPCs. You'd have to click on the steam engine and would then be presented with a list of choices. There's no experimentation. I didn't even know you could spare the dwarf until 15 years after first playing Arcanum, because when you have companions they will automatically beat him to death.
One day I just wondered "Hmm, what happens if I go in there alone, destroy the engine, but then just run out of the building instead of killing the dwarf?" Lo and behold, it had an actual consequence!

Fallout and Arcanum are VD's greatest inspirations, yet while his games have similar C&C they approach it from a different angle.
Fallout and Arcanum often let you explore the area, experiment with your skills on environmental objects, etc. Remember Fallout's skilldex? Just pick ANY skill and apply it to ANY object in the world! A good Fallout successor would take that approach and push it further.

Meanwhile Iron Tower games deliver every situation through a dialog box where you're openly and plainly presented with all available options. There's no experimenting, no exploring, no figuring it out yourself. All you have to do is reference your character sheet and pick the option with the highest skill.

This is the ultimate result of the "character skill above player skill" philosophy when pushed to its extreme. The game almost plays itself because all that matters is the skill points on your character sheet. You don't even have to think about when to use those skills - the game tells you exactly when you can and when you can't!

 

[thesecret1]

The learning by doing system was supposed to circumvent AoD's problem of saving up points, waiting until you know what you need to invest them in, and then ruthlessly minmax to get through the game.

Tbh I found this aspect to be part of the fun, especially on later playthroughs. It didn't need fixing.

 

[Irminsul]

Fallout and Arcanum are VD's greatest inspirations, yet while his games have similar C&C they approach it from a different angle.

As I understood it Prelude to Darkness was actually his greatest inspiration or at least impulse for the decision which makes you wonder why he didn't choose a mixed system like in that game. It's also why this:

the writing makes you just want to get on with your actual life instead of spending time with these assholes.

is one of the most legitimate criticisms of the writing for me. I was incredibly tired of every single character being like this at the end of AoD and I saw this voiced so often that it genuinely surprised me that VD just went with exactly the same approach on CS. In Prelude there were characters like this, nice NPCs, idiotic NPCs, sad NPCs, you never really knew how they would react to what answers, it actually felt refreshing. It is also way more believable for me, even in the greatest shithole people have differing attitudes.

Overall I don't really understand how the reputation of AoD apparently created so little traction for the sales of CS though. Shouldn't that alone kind of sell the game?

 

[JarlFrank]

Overall I don't really understand how the reputation of AoD apparently created so little traction for the sales of CS though. Shouldn't that alone kind of sell the game?

AoD's reputation has always been mixed due to the various issues already mentioned in this thread (railroading, lack of exploration, nihilistic writing where everyone is an asshole, etc). It has its fans but wasn't a major hit even among its niche.

 

[Beans00]

is one of the most legitimate criticisms of the writing for me. I was incredibly tired of every single character being like this at the end of AoD and I saw this voiced so often that it genuinely surprised me that VD just went with exactly the same approach on CS. In Prelude there were characters like this, nice NPCs, idiotic NPCs, sad NPCs, you never really knew how they would react to what answers, it actually felt refreshing. It is also way more believable for me, even in the greatest shithole people have differing attitudes.

Overall I don't really understand how the reputation of AoD apparently created so little traction for the sales of CS though. Shouldn't that alone kind of sell the game?

It's simple. Vault Dweller, for all his criticism of various well liked RPG's on here (Specifically the baldurs gate series). For all his pretentiousness. He can't write for shit.
You can see this because 95% of characters in AOD, DR and CS are the exact same 'nihilistic asshole'. Over and fucking over.

Look at fallout. In the den Metzger is an asshole, becky and mom are nice. Smitty is nice. Joey is a delinquent. Frankie is an asshole. Ect, the area is loaded with different types of characters. Ditto for the hub, junktown, ncr, the brotherhood, ect.

In ITS games you have. Asshole #1-#15. That's it. So while the settings can be well done, I thought the idea of a colony ship ala marathon was a super interesting idea. I thought the post apoc roman world was again a super interesting idea. The actual interaction within the game is boring and predictable. Even the choices you make usually revolved around you being an asshole and betraying someone, or reacting to someone betraying you. Have some variety.

 

[Jaedar]

There is some exploration, but it takes a backseat compared to the C&C.

I rather liked the exploration in AoD. You never knew quite what you would find, and as you found more stuff and managed to make it work you would get cool details about the lore.

CS by comparison doesn't really feel like it has many secrets to divulge.

 

[Infinitron]

Overall I don't really understand how the reputation of AoD apparently created so little traction for the sales of CS though. Shouldn't that alone kind of sell the game?

AoD was released almost a decade ago...

 

[Jermu]

Several old codexers who are genuinely well respected(at least for their game opinions) have agreed with me about this game

anyway yes this game has some major problems mainly writing and endgame decline but this game is still better than 98%+ rpgs made recently and I enjoyed it enough to do 2 playthroughs (party + solo)

awful news if this is the last game hope it works out

 

[Beans00]

Several old codexers who are genuinely well respected(at least for their game opinions) have agreed with me about this game

anyway yes this game has some major problems mainly writing and endgame decline but this game is still better than 98%+ rpgs made recently and I enjoyed it enough to do 2 playthroughs (party + solo)

awful news if this is the last game hope it works out

The old codexers I was referring to are Tacgnol and JarlFrank . I got them both to post in the thread and share their opinions(JF more in depth).

 

[Irminsul]

Overall I don't really understand how the reputation of AoD apparently created so little traction for the sales of CS though. Shouldn't that alone kind of sell the game?

AoD was released almost a decade ago...

Very good point. Didn't even think about that, I played AoD and Dungeon Rats for the first time last year. I don't know shit about development but ITS does seem a bit slow compared to some other indie devs, which of course doesn't help if you're estimating how much you need to make another game... Anyhow I would be pretty sad if they actually can't keep going, even if the next is more of CS instead of more AoD or that spanish inquisition RPG they were considering at some point.

 

[Infinitron]

The old codexers I was referring to are Tacgnol and JarlFrank . I got them both to post in the thread and share their opinions(JF more in depth).

JarlFrank doesn't like ITS-style RPGs at all, so why would he like Colony Ship?

What's interesting is the opinions of people who liked Age of Decadence but don't like Colony Ship.

 

[Beans00]

The old codexers I was referring to are Tacgnol and JarlFrank . I got them both to post in the thread and share their opinions(JF more in depth).

JarlFrank doesn't like ITS-style RPGs at all, so why would he like Colony Ship? That's not interesting.

What's interesting is the opinions of people who liked Age of Decadence but don't like Colony Ship.

Removed this as it was more offensive then I mean to be


JarlFrank didn't hate AOD, he disliked the railroading and hoped it would be better in the next game.

FYI I asked JF beforehand if he was cool posting this part of our rpg discussions

 

[The_Mask]

The learning by doing system was supposed to circumvent AoD's problem of saving up points, waiting until you know what you need to invest them in, and then ruthlessly minmax to get through the game.

But because Colony Ship is similarly railroaded as AoD and has equally harsh skill checks, it basically means you want to perform every possible skill check in the game if you can pass it. Find a lock you can pick? You will pick it for the XP. Not because you want what's in there, nor as a role-playing choice that your character would realistically choose to do. You do it purely because you NEED the skill experience.

You can't skip past optional content, especially when that content potentially gives XP to your main skills, because every bit of it is needed.

What *could* have happened is keep the checks relatively the same through-out the game. This way, while things would've gotten a bit boring, it would've signaled progress to the player. The fact that your character has evolved and learned. This way, while the player might still be at the edge of the seat, the hero's journey is still stunted.

So the game is not really about you becoming the hero. It's about always being oppressed. It's almost like the guy that made it is a libtard. Almost. I can't be sure though.



... but the loot pinata sure is nice.

 

[Infinitron]

"I disagree with almost every design decision" but he doesn't hate it. Okay!

 

[Lhynn]

I didn't like CS enough to finish it, but I think it was more a matter of taste than anything else

I mean, thats like, the whole point. Its to nobodys taste but a few rabbid fans that do more harm than good by enabling ITS worst tendencies.

For all his pretentiousness. He can't write for shit.

This is unfair, VDs writing is decent, the only real problem is that he only writes different permutations of the same character.
An asshole but it is a black dude, an asshole but it is a woman, an asshole but it is a woman and a scientist, an asshole but he is poor, an asshole but he is black, and religious, an asshole but he is a leader, etc.