Incline Colony Ship RELEASE THREAD

[agris]

Let's revisit this discussion from 2017:

I'm not saying that's a good attitude, but it does seem to be a pretty accurate one. Look at the ambition of CSG vs. AOD, and Vault Dweller is a pretty grounded and realistic guy. This is what always happens...

For the sake of lowering expectations:

I hope that the CSG will be a much better game because we've learned much and because I know what we did well, what was overlooked, and where we failed. So that "much better" won't come from making the game more epic with more classes and locations but from tightening up the overall design. The CSG will have 16 locations (AoD had 22 but many had a single point of interest), 21 skills (AoD had 23), 3 main factions and 3 smaller groups instead of 7 factions with parallell questlines in AoD. Some new features like learn by use and implants are based on AoD's designs (in AoD we had 3 skill pools: combat, civic, and general; now we'll have a pool for each skill so design-wise it's not some new and unexplored ground). The new features are party-based combat (but that's what DR was all about - focusing on combat exclusively to gain the experience), TB stealth (we had some rough designs for AoD but didn't have time), and gadgets/grenades which should be manageable since we won't have crafting or alchemy.

So the ambition is to make a better game, not a bigger game.

I would say that just the addition of a party makes the game's scope "bigger" in a pretty meaningful sense, though.

In what ways? Combat? After DR we have the template and experience. Party members affecting quests? Relatively easy to script and write. Much easier than the parallel questlines in AoD which was a scripting nightmare.

What Aenra said, basically. Developers like Obsidian talk about companions as being a large investment, so you may be underestimating this.

The single, most time consuming, complex aspect of AoD was the parallel questlines. Compared to it, writing and scripting party members is a walk in the park. It's still a relatively complex task but a very manageable one.

As for Obsidian, their remark should be seen in the context of the overall design of their games. While they like reactivity, it's usually a welcome bonus not the focus. They make combat-focused RPG where killing enemies is about 60-80% of the game. From this perspective, writing and scripting something as reactive as party members (i.e. not a single case of reactivity) is a great investment compared to populating a map with enemies to kill. Additionally, Obsidian usually operates under strict time constraints, which means they really have to pick their battles wisely, whereas we can easily add another year if needed.

It seems to me that depending on their complexity, companions can be a lot like "parallel questlines".

I assure you they can't. Not even close.

They have their own independent states that evolve in "parallel" with the rest of the game. Basically every companion is like a sort of questline that can touch anything in the game where you take that companion (including other companions).

Meaning multiple quest solutions at most (i.e. sometimes they provide a new solution, sometimes they alter your options), which will be done by default even if we had no party members. The party members are merely another layer. Plus reactivity and comments. Plus unique content, which too would be done by default. We'll do as many quests as we can say, let's say a hundred which is less than what AoD had. So 10 quests/events would be gated by the party members.

whereas we can easily add another year if needed

Can you now? Interesting to know.

I think that goes without saying. I have a certain game in mind. I think we can do it in 4 years but if we can't and it takes 6 years then that's what it's going to take. Simple as that.

It took six years!

Will be interesting if Vince hops in here to give his thoughts now in 2023.

Sounds like I'm wrong per 2017, but I lurk in their discord and believe what I wrote to be true as of today.

 

[Saduj]

So I was able to get into the lower levels of Mission Control. Seems like skipping it would lock out some of the better endings.....

That one optional fight looks ridiculous. I have Romeo operational and used him against the floaters. Probably going to send him back to Armory now even though game somewhat warns you not to. I'm fine with skipping that one this time.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Tfw you had quite a bit of fun in mission control and armory and are now sad because you have to progress to the habitat and know that NPCs will start dialoguing at you again

 

[Tao]

I think the game could have being better with only one MC.

I played 3 runs:

-the noob "everything is new and bright" run so of course it ended on a blockroad and i decided to restart.

-the autistic run where i did things "the right way", doing everything, with every character specialized in one area: MC with the classic Han Solo build archetype (social skills + pistol/gun), Evans with a rifle/sniper build, Jed full blunt/tank knocking down everything and Faythe managing the skills checks and stealth. 40h more or less, reloading to see other outcomes and with every check passed and explored.

-the solo killer run. Here is where i fould myself unistalling the game mid way chap 1 after reaching the last court case before going to the Forts section, because i just didnt see the point of playing anymore after pretty much doing everything in my last run. And i think is a pity. Because part of the beauty of AoD was replaying with diferent builds exploring the world in differents ways but, why would i want to play as a Rifle/Sniper guy or a melee build? I already did it just not in a solo party.

Overall i liked the idea of the ship and the setting. The combat has a few problems imo like why are you always starting is such a bad position? What is the point of positioning your units in the first turn? Where is the cover or why there is cover in retarded places and not in the obvious ones?. I also have a issue with what it is suppose to be the scale of things: there is a big disconnection between what the games tell you and what you are seing and doing. The art is superb, the portraits specially -like in AoD- are incredible.

For me 7.5/10

 

[lukaszek]

didnt get the eye, progressed with shadow through olbub route. Ran for the door.
Now its blocked, can I fight that worm once i get few more upgrades or am I forced to fight him right there?
How does one survive his bulshit attacks? it doesnt seem that they can be evaded.

 

[Darth Roxor]

I swear these combat encounters are just unbelievably stupid when it comes to arrangement, and this one in the factory might just be exhibit number 1 for that.

Why am I forced to start in the middle of this fucking room surrounded by gunmen, when the intro describes this as you opening the door and saying 'oshi there's niggas! Run, y/n?' Because fuck me?

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

I swear these combat encounters are just unbelievably stupid when it comes to arrangement, and this one in the factory might just be exhibit number 1 for that.

Why am I forced to start in the middle of this fucking room surrounded by gunmen, when the intro describes this as you opening the door and saying 'oshi there's niggas! Run, y/n?' Because fuck me?

Oh my dear, innocent boy. This one is still doable if you have the various grenades to spam the enemy, since they are fairly bunched up.

Wait till you have to actually fight for the Machine, now that one is the unbelievably retarded.

BULLSHIT

Worst of all is that Cobra has an insanely strong starter setup where she always throws the pulse grenade first and then proceeds to fire two unbelievably accurate SMG sprays, in 19/20 cases her first move kills off one of your characters. God be my witness, I spent the entire day today finding stuff I missed and grinding my team... only to get the exact same result. It's incredible. The stealth option is insulting in this one where you can only kill one guy and that's it, because the robot is preventing you from doing anything else (seems I need a better heat absorber to get pass the robot). When you want to actually start combat the rest of your team gets transported once again into the middle of the room... and forget about deploying your Romeo.

What's even funnier, at least in the stealth option I get the first imitative, allowing me to toss a statis grenade at Cobra, so I can at least reach turn 2 with all my team alive.

I genuinely have doubts this is doable, which only leaves me with an option to surrender and change sides. Am I missing something here?

 

[Darth Roxor]

Oh my dear, innocent boy. This one is still doable if you have the various grenades to spam the enemy, since they are fairly bunched up.

I mean in practice that fight ended up fairly easy, I did it on second try - mostly thanks to the free superman/flashbang on Smiles, but that still doesn't make the starting arrangement any less moronic.

When you want to actually start combat the rest of your team gets transported once again into the middle of the room...

This is another thing that's incredibly bothersome to me. You distract the entire enemy blob away from the door and start combat only for your party members to begin bunched up in the middle of the room like idiots.

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

Holy shit, you can actually choose the entire team to "stealth" into the side of the room. This has never crossed my mind since only one character was ever spec-ed for stealth.

Errr...

Let's see how it goes.

 

[Nikanuur]

So I took a peak at Mission Control last night before sleep and I think I my have gotten myself gated out.

I'm in Act 3 and have the eye. My main character has Pistols, Persuasion and Computers tagged and he's responsible for all social and science skills. Social skills are at Persuasion 9, Streetwise 7, Impersonate 6. My science is at Computers 7, Electronics 5, Biotech 5 (latter two are about 60% of the way to 6). I may have missed something, but I have prioritized the science skills every chance I get (tokens, trainers, using them every time possible) and just don't see any more points available until they level. Evan and Jed are pure ranged combat, rifle and shotgun, and feel really strong at this point. Faythe has all the stealth perks at level 5. In combat, she just cloaks and takes pot shots with a pistol.

Why I think I'm screwed

I haven't tried it yet, but I don't think I can beat the fight against Shadow, his crew and those turrets. I believe that I need Electronics 6 to affect the turrets before the fight. I have done all the non-Mission Control related quests except the "bad job" gun for hire quest you get in the Pit after Act 2. I have gone through every area and think I've explored everything that I can. I have a head, gyro and two power cells for Romeo. I tried to install the head and gyro at the same Electronics skill level previously and it didn't seem to do anything for either my character or Romeo so no help there?

So my options are:

I will definitely try to beat the fight. I have weapons I haven't tried yet: the crappy energy pistol, low tier energy rifle and can buy an energy shotgun. I have the xtra strength gas grenade and flashbang from the Protector's vendor. I have two EMP grenades or whatever they are called and two stasis grenades. I still expect to get torn up by the turrets.

I also haven't done the fight against the floaters yet but I don't think beating that is going to help me get to the lower level. Obviously, I'm still going to check it out.

I can go back to Romeo and see if having two power cells changes anything. When I tried to install parts in the past, the game just says "You hope you know what you're doing", the parts exit my inventory and nothing else happens. I don't think he'll be helping in the fight or raising my electronics skill to level 6.

My character has one open cyber slot and I have a datajack. Installing it will increase my intelligence but I think that will only increase XP towards my next level and not my skill bars. I didn't want to use this slot on this but I'll test it out and if it gets me to Mission Control, I will do it.

Pretty sure I'm just screwed if I can't win that "fuck you, you ain't winning this" fight but if anyone has advice, it would be welcome.

Like, I'm not entirely sure what's going on; I have read how players reputedly can't leave the Mission Control until they confront Shadow. But I kid you not, as soon as I explored a bit of the Inner Sanctum, I left by going through the same door with the big red sphere, went around a few other locations in the whole 'world', finished some other quests, prepared myself with some newly acquired toys before coming back e.g. 2 stasis grenades, which meant -2 combatants for several rounds. Prior to fighting, I hacked those two turrets to become inactive. That option was available with computers 8. With computers 9 you can even reprogram them to attack Shadow, fyi..
Also, if I am not missing something, even like that, your situation isn't being walled out—with your level of persuasion, you should be able to go through using the dialog prompts without fighting.
Fyi #2 I advise against ignoring that fight with floaters. The corpse in the same room has one of the best armors in the whole game; Energy Armor ca 9/9/9 and 100 energy points of shield the enemies have to go through before they can reach your health (unless, of course, they cancel your gadgets with their own grenades, etc. etc., but that's a different story).

 

[Nikanuur]

So I was able to get into the lower levels of Mission Control. Seems like skipping it would lock out some of the better endings.....

That one optional fight looks ridiculous. I have Romeo operational and used him against the floaters. Probably going to send him back to Armory now even though game somewhat warns you not to. I'm fine with skipping that one this time.

Minor spoiler: make sure to send him there, actually. After you are sure, you have finished in Mission Control, that is.
The warning serves as a reminder that his actions have finite count. You can deplete his energy sooner than you expect. It's not the end of the world, but he can be of tremendous help in some fights. It'd be a bummer to waste his help in needless situations.
Every 'move to different location' or every fight costs him some energy, and recharges are rare (but you probably know that by now).

 

[Technomancer]

The stealth option is insulting in this one where you can only kill one guy and that's it, because the robot is preventing you from doing anything else.

I killed them through stealth (then combat autostarts with robot, it didn't get to shoot once). Though I had stealth Faythe with all stealth feats. This being end game fight, pretty sure it was meant to take stealth specialist to pull that off.

 

[Tyranicon]

Mid-late game sounds like a grenade simulator from what I'm reading here.

 

[Nikanuur]

...I genuinely have doubts this is doable, which only leaves me with an option to surrender and change sides. Am I missing something here?...

I don't even (want to) remember how I pulled that one off. It was insane.
But somehow, I did, with only one team-member down and Romeo alive.
I think I reloaded ca. 8 times only to understand who has and has not a line of fire over who the first round. I used the energy armor not for the shield, but as a bait for the enemy to waste their grenades, used all types of (upgraded) grenades there are except for smoke myself, and either by luck or skill kept switching aggro till the end of the combat.
The thing with all ppl entering stealth though! That's the spirit!

 

[lukaszek]

The stealth option is insulting in this one where you can only kill one guy and that's it, because the robot is preventing you from doing anything else.

you need cloak gizmo to run past it, managed to stab everyone but single combatant.

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

The stealth option is insulting in this one where you can only kill one guy and that's it, because the robot is preventing you from doing anything else.

you need cloak gizmo to run past it, managed to stab everyone but single combatant.

What's a cloak gizmo? You mean a fully upgraded cloaking field device?

EDIT: Seems the diplomatic route left me short on cloaking upgrades.

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

Mid-late game sounds like a grenade simulator from what I'm reading here.

Late-game on underdog you need every advantage you can get to win fights, especially if your team is more jack-of-all-trades instead of combat focused.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Also, when you go to assault the base of enemy goons, with the clear intent of killing them all, it only makes sense that you'll just step into the middle of their setup like a fucking retard (detroit gang fight).

I'm at the brink of ragequit and uninstall with this game, because there's only so much retardation I can accept in good faith.

 

[Tigranes]

Hilarious thing is, game's doing you a favour starting in the middle for most builds (for the Smiley fight). You WANT to start there. Back by the door you got nowhere to go, no cover, they can use their cover more, their one sniper is further away, you're sitting ducks.

In practice, almost all CSG fights start and end in very close range, where you are trying to kill one enemy or radically change the battlefield from the first turn. That I like. Nothing worse than turn-based fights where I have to spend 3 turns just getting everyone in place. It also makes initiative harder to dump. The problem is that the starting zones can be too narrow.

Mid-late game sounds like a grenade simulator from what I'm reading here.

This varies a lot. Some builds, early game is when you rely on grenades, not late.

Either way, grenades & energy cells offer limited quantity crutches, whose effectiveness varies each fight / each team / tactics you use. One of my guys knew Smoke is the killer device, sometimes even better than Disruptor, whereas another guy grabs a heavy helmet at the start of game and swims around in poison. It's a good thing that they're meaningful.

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

I notice that while someone is in statis you cannot use a gas grenade to poison them, but you can use a pulse grenade to turn off their gadgets, lol.

 

[Tigranes]

The stealth option is insulting in this one where you can only kill one guy and that's it, because the robot is preventing you from doing anything else.

I killed them through stealth (then combat autostarts with robot, it didn't get to shoot once). Though I had stealth Faythe with all stealth feats. This being end game fight, pretty sure it was meant to take stealth specialist to pull that off.

Depending on your build, the maximum I did was to kill everyone including Cobra, leaving only the robot and the guy right next to Cobra.

With a more stealthy build, you can use the noise & movement to set things up. Kill the first guy then hide in an alcove, robot turns around and goes to corpse leaving you clear to enter the main area. And in the left room with 3 enemies, depending on your setup (e.g. tunnel runner + second wind) you can kill 2 in the first turn and get in position to avoid the sniper when he comes looking, allowing you to slam him next turn. Then at your leisure you approach and cut cobra from behind and initiate combat.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Hilarious thing is, game's doing you a favour starting in the middle for most builds (for the Smiley fight).

I don't care how much of a favour the game is doing me when the basic premise of the fight (detroit gang base) is so incredibly stupid that I can't imagine someone setting it up and thinking 'good to go, no problems here!'

You aren't walking into a trap. These aren't negotiations gone awry. You are going there with the very clear intention of beheading everyone, including their women and children. And you do this by knocking on the door and requesting to be taken to their leader so you can tell him 'sup bro, I've come to kill you all'?! Especially also when you have a high sneaker on the team and there were NUMEROUS TIMES BEFORE where you could shank people instead of engaging them head on, including under way less plausible circumstances.

 

[Iluvcheezcake]

Hilarious thing is, game's doing you a favour starting in the middle for most builds (for the Smiley fight).

I don't care how much of a favour the game is doing me when the basic premise of the fight (detroit gang base) is so incredibly stupid that I can't imagine someone setting it up and thinking 'good to go, no problems here!'

You aren't walking into a trap. These aren't negotiations gone awry. You are going there with the very clear intention of beheading everyone, including their women and children. And you do this by knocking on the door and requesting to be taken to their leader so you can tell him 'sup bro, I've come to kill you all'?! Especially also when you have a high sneaker on the team and there were NUMEROUS TIMES BEFORE where you could shank people instead of engaging them head on, including under way less plausible circumstances.

Yeah. Detroit fight begs for a stealth option

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

The stealth option is insulting in this one where you can only kill one guy and that's it, because the robot is preventing you from doing anything else.

I killed them through stealth (then combat autostarts with robot, it didn't get to shoot once). Though I had stealth Faythe with all stealth feats. This being end game fight, pretty sure it was meant to take stealth specialist to pull that off.

Depending on your build, the maximum I did was to kill everyone including Cobra, leaving only the robot and the guy right next to Cobra.

With a more stealthy build, you can use the noise & movement to set things up. Kill the first guy then hide in an alcove, robot turns around and goes to corpse leaving you clear to enter the main area. And in the left room with 3 enemies, depending on your setup (e.g. tunnel runner + second wind) you can kill 2 in the first turn and get in position to avoid the sniper when he comes looking, allowing you to slam him next turn. Then at your leisure you approach and cut cobra from behind and initiate combat.

Thanks, I will try to do that. Although without a good heat cloaking upgrade (Shadow had the MKII, but I didn't kill him and the MKIII is hidden behind a lockpick 10 check), I'm left with only an MKI.

 

[Technomancer]

I will try to do that

One thing to know is that with silent runner all other movement bonus AP get added to stealth making Charger, Dex heroic and dex implant chip useful for stealth. Another not obvious "stealth" feat is Second Wind which gives you AP for killing people. In stealth too. I wouldn't be able to stealth that fight without it. Probably possible with clever baiting but it bores me, takes too long.