CKII is released.

[CthuluIsSpy]

Well, I had to abandon my second game. The muslims failed to capture Jerusalem thrice, most of the world is christian or slav so they are coming for my Norse Pagan ass.
Its like the game tries to fuck with you. "Oh, I see you are close to making an Empire? Well then, let's rig it so that you will be the target of the Crusades, you will lose due to the sheer number of enemies, and your vassals will hate you for no reason as soon as you go feudal, even though its been stable for the last 100 years"

Going feudal takes way too long for the AI. For the player its really fast, but for the vassals it takes forever. Does it follow the same rule as you do, where everything in their demesne becomes feudal when they do? Does that mean I should just rush to feudalism when I can?

How do you convert foreign provinces? And should I have been more agressive towards Ireland and England?

What constitutes nearby for Great Holy War Defense? Is it 200 like the smaller wars?

 

[Fedora Master]

Vassals also need to have the max level tribal fort. You can, if you need to, upgrade the buildings for them. It should be easy enough to make loadsamuney by raiding as a Viking.

 

[Beastro]

Seriously, what is with the AI's fixation on stupidity?

I think Paradox likes to think this simulates historical actions that are too abstract to be done in the game.

In the end part of the problem is governed by the AI "rationality" counter that rises and lowers with certain traits. When I'm playing a game where the Byzantine Emperor isn't at war and dedices to revoke, assign and revoke titles over and over to provoke civil wars I go into the console and weed out the "low" AI rationality traits like ambitious, arbitrary, etc and add in ones that stabilize their behaviour, like content.

Still they'll keep doing it.

What I hate the most is when an AI king gets his mind set on removing a notable dynasty from an area, and no matter what I do, they keep at it. Like the King of France revoking Normandy and its counties from the house of Normandie for the hell of it. I really like keeping those kinds of dynasties alive if only to give the map some flavour 80% of the randomly generated dynasty COAs and names fail to do, so it's fucking annoying to have such a dynasty replaced by yet another orange and brown COA with a cup as its emblem.

Its as if the AI is designed to piss off the player. Having to micromanage every NPC so they don't fuck everything up is really aggravating. If paradox wanted to simulate the conditions for tyranny, they succeeded, because I just want to execute them all and rule the country myself so I don't have to deal with their dumb shit.

The most annoying thing for me is just keeping the notable dynasties going. I resort to the pollinate command a lot to keep them from dying out, especially from their own stupidity.

I really don't understand the tyranny penalty for execution. If he's a traitor, shouldn't I be allowed to strip all titles and execute for free? That's how it was back then, wasn't it?
I pretty much have to just keep him in prison and let him slowly starve to death, which is a pretty fucked up way of killing someone. Execution would be less cruel.

I came back to the game after like 4 years and this pisses me off. I ran into it emassing prisoners during holy wars as I like to collect a ton and then execute them before I make peace. I did so only to realize a few months later my own fucking kingdom has a -30 tyranny on me for doing it.... to infidels????

Makes me loathed to replay my old Norse or Germanic Zoroastrian invasion of Persia scenario and ravage Islam only for the religion I liberate to hate me for stacking the Muslim bodies like cordwood.

Shes was like 4yrs old when events started happening lol

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Vassals also need to have the max level tribal fort. You can, if you need to, upgrade the buildings for them. It should be easy enough to make loadsamuney by raiding as a Viking.

Well shit, I guess I needed to raid more than. Good thing pagan cities are cheap, because there are like 80 of them. I think my problem is that I started a great work. Probably should have waited for feudal.
When's the best time to go feudal? High Tribal Organisation really tanks your offensive output, especially when upkeep is involved. The problem though is that if you want to build an empire, you need to go feudal because of the huge vassal penalty.

What's the exact time period for when being tribal is no longer viable? I've heard it was around 1200.

Edit : So I think I know why everyone hated my ruler in the last game- Its because he was gay. Turns out being in the vangarian guard makes you gay. Also that -5 penalty is more like a -50 in practice, because everyone wanted him gone and wanted some old lecher instead.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

I thought Rushing rome instantly wins the crusade? I tried that and it didn't work.

 

[Zero Credibility]

I think that only works if you manage to capture the pope. Just did that (kind of) myself.

I've been getting back into this game after a couple of years, seeing what's new in the vanilla game and HIP. Decided to try hellenic restoration just for the hell of it, and not as an emperor, but starting off as a lowly one province independent greek count right after the 4th crusade. I've been doing pretty well, managed to create kingdom of Greece while everyone around me was too busy killing each other, until I got hit with a crusade incoming warning (that's new, and quite convenient). I was hoping I would have more time while catholics are busy killing the muslims, but nope. Not having a chance of fighting it back, I decided to be sneaky instead, parked my spymaster in Rome, bribed a bunch of people, killed Pope's somewhat competent spymaster, then kidnapped the Pope. No more Deus Vult. Hopefully old big hat will have a long and boring life in my house arrest, as I'm not sure he or his successor will not just restart it again the moment he is released or dead.

Wonder if I could have sworn fealty to one of weak empires around me to hide from the crusade instead, then eat them from the inside out.

 

[hoothoot]

Playing similar kind of game. Was well on my way to restoring Persia and then the seljuks and the abbassids attacked me at the same time. Think fine il acxept seljuk surrender then just bounce back. 40k warriors flock to his flags lol. Now just waiting while he whittles his event stack down and assassinating everyone i can

 

[Beastro]

Edit : So I think I know why everyone hated my ruler in the last game- Its because he was gay. Turns out being in the vangarian guard makes you gay. Also that -5 penalty is more like a -50 in practice, because everyone wanted him gone and wanted some old lecher instead.

I've run into that with cruel and greedy as well as with other negative trait combos. Checking the stats they say they gave like a total of -15-20 malus and only to those with charitable, but I used the console to remove them from one emperor of mine and opinions broadly jumped by about 30-50 points.

I thought Rushing rome instantly wins the crusade? I tried that and it didn't work.

Yes, the Pope leads all Crusades so capturing him gives 100% WS.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

How do you kidnap? You need the Intrigue focus, right, but how do you generate it?

Right, so new attempt - can't bloody reform because idiot pagans keep losing holy wars and its perpetually under 50% MA. I've been raiding temples left and right but I don't seem to get anything for it.

What's the easiest target to launch an invasion against? I was thinking scotland, but I also want Tholen from Lotharingia.

 

[Beastro]

How do you kidnap? You need the Intrigue focus, right, but how do you generate it?

Right click on a person and it should be under "plot to kill".

Right, so new attempt - can't bloody reform because idiot pagans keep losing holy wars and its perpetually under 50% MA. I've been raiding temples left and right but I don't seem to get anything for it.

This is where I just console into the idiots, imprison the attacked enemy and white peace out. Paradox games are ones where you can play them straight up, but you miss a lot of historical fun that comes with tweeking the game as you go along (If only to rename heirs of prominant kingdoms/dyansties to fitting names so you don't get a dozen Herbert's ruling France.

What's the easiest target to launch an invasion against? I was thinking scotland, but I also want Tholen from Lotharingia.

Don't play the game that way. Invade Scotland is ya want, but try not to look at it from that perspective of mechanical ease of options. At least for me I find it easy enough that efficiency isn't a big issue, it's what I want to go for as goals. In my recent game, for instance, working to build my target empire out of Britain, then burning it down when the late 13th Century comes and working from a rump state in Brittany or trying to invade and rebuild the Byzantine Empire.

Yes, I know what happens if they join. Its just that, even with nearly 100 positive opinion, my Tribal Vassal simply refuses to join in any war against another Slavic power when I'm Rurik. I can not expand past Polotsk because of this, as I have about 4k from my Demense, and the High Chief of Polotsk has about 6k.

Did you trying using raids as a means of whittling down their numbers, ambushing smaller stacks before they formed up before over and over trying to even the numbers out?

 

[Average Manatee]

If you are a tribal, look into the new tribal levies that run purely off prestige. They are quite OP. Do the scholarship focus top option to bank mil points for the tech that increases your retinue size.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

If you are a tribal, look into the new tribal levies that run purely off prestige. They are quite OP. Do the scholarship focus top option to bank mil points for the tech that increases your retinue size.

Tribal levies? Do you mean the retinues and the chancellor missions?
They are pretty useful.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Don't play the game that way. Invade Scotland is ya want, but try not to look at it from that perspective of mechanical ease of options. At least for me I find it easy enough that efficiency isn't a big issue, it's what I want to go for as goals. In my recent game, for instance, working to build my target empire out of Britain, then burning it down when the late 13th Century comes and working from a rump state in Brittany or trying to invade and rebuild the Byzantine Empire.

Its really just to drive the MA up and to establish another Norse kingdom. I don't intend on keeping the lands from a Prepared Invasion. The only Empire I want is Scandinavia.

 

[Average Manatee]

If you are a tribal, look into the new tribal levies that run purely off prestige. They are quite OP. Do the scholarship focus top option to bank mil points for the tech that increases your retinue size.

Tribal levies? Do you mean the retinues and the chancellor missions?
They are pretty useful.

Yeah, retinue is what I meant.

You should be able to get like 10-15k of them at least, if you've raised tech a bit. You can temporarily go above your demesne limit to hire more. It's actually kind of an exploit to temporarily revoke 30 tribal counties and get 50k permanent troops out of it.

 

[Zero Credibility]

Something to keep in mind when reforming a religion, if you wish for your religion to spread at all, pick Proselytizing nature. Otherwise reformed AI will rarely or never try to convert their counties. I guess Dogmatics and Warmongers are a-ok with heathens once they are in their lands. Fuck it, I'm going to mod this to be more in line with how existing religions behave.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

If you are a tribal, look into the new tribal levies that run purely off prestige. They are quite OP. Do the scholarship focus top option to bank mil points for the tech that increases your retinue size.

Tribal levies? Do you mean the retinues and the chancellor missions?
They are pretty useful.

Yeah, retinue is what I meant.

You should be able to get like 10-15k of them at least, if you've raised tech a bit. You can temporarily go above your demesne limit to hire more. It's actually kind of an exploit to temporarily revoke 30 tribal counties and get 50k permanent troops out of it.

Oh wow I didn't know that. I did notice that if I inherit land from a dead vassal I get some troops, but I always assumed that was me getting his retinue.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Something to keep in mind when reforming a religion, if you wish for your religion to spread at all, pick Proselytizing nature. Otherwise reformed AI will rarely or never try to convert their counties. I guess Dogmatics and Warmongers are a-ok with heathens once they are in their lands. Fuck it, I'm going to mod this to be more in line with how existing religions behave.

I don't have Holy Fury though, so no doctrines for me.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Right, so I finally reformed, and I developed a new strategy for getting the Pope off my back - I create independent norse states to act as a distraction for the Crusades, and protect them until they can protect themselves. Then I continue building the empire.
First it was Frisia, to get that holy site. Then it was scotland. Now I'm thinking of taking on East Francia to make a nice, big buffer, filled with zealous norsemen.

Is it normal for Jerusalem and Egypt to not get retaken? The muslims in the east are pratically non-existant, and Shia is absent for some reason.

Edit : Did it. But some mayor in Egypt declared war on the new state because he had some old lady with a claim. And their is no garrison. I hope the new Germanic Fraconia lasts for 10 years, because that's when the next crusade is.

 

[Zero Credibility]

Looks like I was right, as soon as the Pope in my dungeon died, another Crusade was called on me. And another. And another. I'm starting to feel like a Pope collector, but I simply can't take the catholics head on yet, not with the humongous HRE covering most of Europe and the slow going on expanding my land. Luckily popes are usually really bad with intrigue, but it will only take one exception to ruin my day. Meanwhile, while the catholics are obsessed with kicking the crap out of me, the crusader states got pushed into the sea.

I'm also wondering how the hell am I ever going to raise moral authority enough to reform. I can't raid, so the only way I see is to win a ton of county conquests quickly, likely too many to be possible. Is there some other way to do it?

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Looks like I was right, as soon as the Pope in my dungeon died, another Crusade was called on me. And another. And another. I'm starting to feel like a Pope collector, but I simply can't take the catholics head on yet, not with the humongous HRE covering most of Europe and the slow going on expanding my land. Luckily popes are usually really bad with intrigue, but it will only take one exception to ruin my day. Meanwhile, while the catholics are obsessed with kicking the crap out of me, the crusader states got pushed into the sea.

I'm also wondering how the hell am I ever going to raise moral authority enough to reform. I can't raid, so the only way I see is to win a ton of county conquests quickly, likely too many to be possible. Is there some other way to do it?

Do what I did- Aggressively go after all 5 holy sites. Each site gives you 10% MA. And then try to conquest and raid as much as you can before the retarded AI drops the MA too much.

Also, don't turn to feudalism too soon. Only do it when you are sure you are safe, preferably after making a few independent pagan states to cover you if the Catholics call a Jihad. In order to become feudal you need to first pass high tribal authority and then Absolute tribal authority, which means that for 20 years your military is going to be shit.

So...aren't crusades supposed to be called as soon as they are available? Because the catholic's crusade just came off cool down, and it hasn't happened yet. And that makes me worried because I suspect the AI is being a dick and waiting for me to get engaged with a war first. I really want that Holy Germanic Empire of Scandinavia you guys.

 

[Zero Credibility]

I'm already feudal, and I can't raid, that's the problem. And I'm playing with HIP, where a holy site is only +5% MA. Also, one of them is in Rome, one is in the HRE blob, and one in a muslim blob. And I have problems even getting casus belli on any of them, because HIP also limits the distance you can forge claims on, and they are simply too far away. I might be able to take the muslim site if I find a suitable claimant, as they seem the weakest. I also thought about stockpiling a mountain of cash, then mass building 20 to 30 temples all at once. But without raiding it will take me a century to do so, and I'm already nearing year 1300.

But I might have a cunning plan. The problem is that I can't raid, but what if I could? Suddenly, two of my biggest problems, money and MA, are solved. Well, there are also the crusade happy popes, but they can rot in my dungeon, and if not, enough money to buy every mercenary available can help even with that. Turkish lands are right next to me, and as altaics, turks can raid any time they please. Yes, it's going to take some preparations, but I see what I must do. To defeat the turk and win back the greek lands, I must become a turk first.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Well, a crusade was finally called and I lost Germany. Its not a big murder blob of states, and I don't know how to get it back.
Once again the Arabs are bloody useless, which only makes me more suspicious that the AI intentionally rigs the game if your pagan so that the Crusades will be inevitably called against you.

Ok, crusades are fucking bullshit. How am I supposed to fight their doom stacks? If raiding wasn't so shit at ruining infrastructure I would have done that, but apparently it only takes a year to repair a burned down church.

 

[Zero Credibility]

Yeah, I restarted the game myself. It was a lost cause, crusades seemed focused on me alone (something like 5 of them in a row), and sooner or later one pope was going to slip my grasp and that will be it.

I did some research, and for vanilla game at least, crusade target needs to have at least 6 counties in the target de jure kingdom for him to be a valid target. So my new plan is to stay just under that limit (fortunately there are several kingdoms there, so I can have up to 5 counties in every one) until I reform or can fight back the crusade. Cheesy, and my lands are going to look ugly as hell, but it should keep the catholics off my back.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

I just won my first defensive crusade. Turns out Scotland is really easy to defend as the AI don't have enough boats to deploy in full force. You pretty much just have to run around to play whack a mole and maybe hire some mercs.

Also the Ummayids finally did something and took Arabia from Jerusalem. Which doesn't really help me as the Pope doesn't care about Arabia, but its a start.

Edit : Aaand I just discovered that tribals can't go into seclusion. If I survive I'll be really surprised.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Turns out De Jure drift screws up Empires pretty hard if you take too long to form it. My Empire of Scandinavia consists of the Kingdom of Norway and the Kingdom of Finland, which only consists of a duchy.
And I can't give the proper vassal dukes to the Finnish king because Paradox decided to implement some tedious restrictions. Its going to take me too long to sort that crap out, especially with shitty vassals and crusades happening every 30 years, because that's somehow not a short CD period for a fucking huge war that claims entire kingdoms. Playing pagan is annoying, bad design is bad.

Oh, and the game decided to kill my 60 PCS Emperor in a duel with a 35 PCS commander, putting my 3 year old on the throne. Fuck that, I don't want to deal with a 13 year regency like in my Irish game, especially with dick headed Vassals.

Regencies are so fucking boring, why they decided to implement a feature where they player can basically do nothing except wait for something like 30 mins and hope they don't suddenly get a game over is beyond me.

There's actually a lot of design decisions that I disagree with.
From the top of my head -

- Can't give territory to foreign powers. Like, what if I took some land, and wanted to give it to an ally? The game won't let me do that. I have to grant independence, and watch the new nation immediately get consumed by some other power. Shit, even the old total war games allowed you do to that.

- Can't give orders to allied armies (without DLC, which is a shit move)

- Can't take entire duchies through CB (again, without DLC)

- In fact, a lot of the convenient features are locked behind DLC, which really should have been in the game to begin with. Like adopting local culture, which for some reason is only available if you have Rajas. Which doesn't make sense.

- No disinheritance. Like, I understand if Paradox didn't want players to game gavelkind too much, but there should really be a disinherit option if you have a really good reason. Like, the heir is a pox ridden lunatic with 1 in all stats or something.

- No become Emperor of X ambition. Why? There's a kingdom ambition for kingdoms that haven't been formed yet, why not Emperor?

- Plotting to assassinate is pointless. Its too easy to be discovered or someone to blab. Apparently it happens if you have drunkards or gluttons in on that plot, but I've had it happen with temperate NPCs or high intrigue NPCs.

- No convenient way to form an Empire. It requires you to own 80% of territories and 2 kingdoms, but there's no way to actually do that unless you do grab a county every 10 years. Its hard enough as pagan because of elective gavelkind's free kingdom making bullshit and because you somehow lose subjugation when you reform, but as Christian it's a such a slog unless you get lucky with marriages and claims. If you do manage to do that, then its going to look like crap because everything got merged into a single kingdom because of de jure drift.

- Vassals being shits for no reasons. Its such an annoyance to deal with. Its as if everyone in CK2 is a disloyal cunt, and it really pisses me off. Everyone talks about how this game is historically accurate, but from personal observations that's complete bullshit, considering how every few years or so there's a rebellion or a civil war, and that's for the player. For the AI its a complete clusterfuck. Like, the middle ages did get messy, but they weren't that chaotic.