Caves of Qud (ROGUELIKE) - coming December 5th

[buffalo bill]

I feel like that pathway through the game (at least once you figure it out) doesn't have enough variance in terms of dungeons/places etc.

Definitely agree, and it's obviously a mistake to not allow the player to side with the "bad guys". But since 2.5 years ago there has been a lot of content added. I believe that the tomb of the eaters is new since then, and there are now several side quests in optional locations. But the main path is too linear, yeah.

 

[Fedora Master]

Scrolled through the last 3 pages in the hope to learn something of the game, and what did I see?

gay blablabla... jewish this and that... men who have sex with other men... trannies... commies...

Uh, thanks?

You want to know about the game? The writing is generally good but tends to be a bit too verbose and certain NPCs are very obvious self-inserts.
The handcrafted areas are the most interesting parts but the story is still unfinished so you'll run out of those eventually. The combat is simplistic and, due to the skill system, stacked against the player. For example, cutting off limbs from enemies is cool and all but when they do it to you it'll ruin your character for a long long time. Itemization is meh because the types of items you'll use regularly are actually very limited. Good luck finding new laser pistols when your old ones happen to break.

limb regrowth is fairly easy—there's an early-game quest reward that offers a one-time limb regrowth (ubernostrum tonic) and there are permanent limb-regrowth items at an early-mid game location (bethesda susa). also, there are only like two early-game enemies that can cut off limbs that I can recall off the top of my head (sawhand robots and madpole fish), and the madpole fish are extremely easy to avoid (since they're stuck in water). Laser pistols are not that great, and plentiful. there is mad item diversity, and most items are either generally useful or situationally useful.

imo these criticisms are all based on an early game experience.

I have a gunslinger character currently on the Pax Klanq(?) Quest. I've not seen good pistols anywhere so far.

 

[buffalo bill]

Scrolled through the last 3 pages in the hope to learn something of the game, and what did I see?

gay blablabla... jewish this and that... men who have sex with other men... trannies... commies...

Uh, thanks?

You want to know about the game? The writing is generally good but tends to be a bit too verbose and certain NPCs are very obvious self-inserts.
The handcrafted areas are the most interesting parts but the story is still unfinished so you'll run out of those eventually. The combat is simplistic and, due to the skill system, stacked against the player. For example, cutting off limbs from enemies is cool and all but when they do it to you it'll ruin your character for a long long time. Itemization is meh because the types of items you'll use regularly are actually very limited. Good luck finding new laser pistols when your old ones happen to break.

limb regrowth is fairly easy—there's an early-game quest reward that offers a one-time limb regrowth (ubernostrum tonic) and there are permanent limb-regrowth items at an early-mid game location (bethesda susa). also, there are only like two early-game enemies that can cut off limbs that I can recall off the top of my head (sawhand robots and madpole fish), and the madpole fish are extremely easy to avoid (since they're stuck in water). Laser pistols are not that great, and plentiful. there is mad item diversity, and most items are either generally useful or situationally useful.

imo these criticisms are all based on an early game experience.

I have a gunslinger character currently on the Pax Klanq(?) Quest. I've not seen good pistols anywhere so far.

the reef hermits in the palladium reef usually carry good gear if you don't want to dive deep underground, or the grave robbers in the tomb of the eaters almost always have decent ranged weapons. If you've only found unmodded laser pistols at the point you're at, though, I'd say you got unlucky with RNG. Btw fyi adding a sturdy mod to overloaded laser pistols (or any powered item) prevents it from breaking (and overloaded items break constantly—I never use them unless also sturdy).

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

gay blablabla... jewish this and that... men who have sex with other men... trannies... commies...

Uh, thanks?

Literally the dev's comments. This is who is developing the game, and what they spam twitter with.

As usual, the devs earn the feedback they receive. If all you want to see is game comments, go to reddit or reset era, where I'm sure they'd ban us for talking about what the devs themselves say.

 

[Theodora]

Definitely agree, and it's obviously a mistake to not allow the player to side with the "bad guys". But since 2.5 years ago there has been a lot of content added. I believe that the tomb of the eaters is new since then, and there are now several side quests in optional locations. But the main path is too linear, yeah.

are the templars actually _the_ bad guys though? i haven't gotten far enough to know for certain, but i thought they were just one antagonistic faction you couldn't join out of like 60 total similar.

 

[Trithne]

The thing is, you can't join any faction. The game does railroad you into co-operating with the Barathumites, but if you can get rep up with anyone the best you can get is "they won't murder you on sight and you can visit their holy sites", which you can do with the Putus Templar, it's just hard because there's limited opportunities to raise their rep, and mutants start at -600.

Lorewise, the Templar are pretty clear about a few things: Kill all mutants, and keep a close eye on any True Kin because they aren't PVRE Templar stock, which has been kept so through generations of inbreeding, so they might be secret mutants.

 

[buffalo bill]

Definitely agree, and it's obviously a mistake to not allow the player to side with the "bad guys". But since 2.5 years ago there has been a lot of content added. I believe that the tomb of the eaters is new since then, and there are now several side quests in optional locations. But the main path is too linear, yeah.

are the templars actually _the_ bad guys though? i haven't gotten far enough to know for certain, but i thought they were just one antagonistic faction you couldn't join out of like 60 total similar.

Well, even ptoh (the elder-god-type entity trapped in qud and who has something to do with the main spindle quest) might not ultimately be the "bad guy"

Spoiler

there is a very late-game side quest in the roving area of the moon stair to help a crystal leaf join with ptoh

, and the putus are constantly harassing the barathrumites including

Spoiler

their mid-game invasion of the barathrumite stronghold

. There's also an overall theme in the game of embracing change, especially apparent in the roving moon stair area—which I found less politically cringy than the other identity-politics-insert factions/areas tbh—which makes the putus the thematic bad guys also.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

Theodora buffalo bill Trithne
Again, I think part of the complaint/request is not only an issue of joining, but playing as a member of said faction from the start like you can as a water merchant.

Also, that if you express approval of of said group, or ask about having them added as an option, you get banned from the devs' discord because muh fascism.

 

[Theodora]

That seems like an oversimplification, but let's not go into a circular argument, agreed? (Otherwise we'll just get into a debate about what is or isn't just bad concern trolling.)

Starting as a Templar is a fairer suggestion, but how far would they have to rewrite the storyline etc. to accommodate their disposition and the kind of reaction you'd expect as a result (as well as realistic options for you)?

 

[Trithne]

I agree that there should be more avenues through the main story than just "help the bears". Then they wouldn't have to make Q Girl immortal up to a point because otherwise it would soft lock your story.

 

[luj1]

Caves of Cuck

 

[Dadd]

How do you pronounce Qud, chud? Like Qin is pronounced chin?

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

Starting as a Templar is a fairer suggestion, but how far would they have to rewrite the storyline etc. to accommodate their disposition and the kind of reaction you'd expect as a result (as well as realistic options for you)?

That's a good question. One that the devs don't ask, since they just ban or threaten to ban you for being a "fascist" if you request it, or if you approve of that faction at all.

Since the PT are a faction bent on exterminating mutants, I wouldn't imagine it'd be that much extra work. Just give players some kill everything missions, ruin their rep with other factions and generally cut much of the game's content. It'd be more of a challenge build/playthrough.

If Jeff Vogel could do it with just about every Geneforge game ever released, I don't see why this company can't. Unless it's the fact that they sperg out at the mere suggestion and ban their customers. Yeah, could be that.

 

[Theodora]

That's a good question. One that the devs don't ask, since they just ban or threaten to ban you for being a "fascist" if you request it, or if you approve of that faction at all.

I don't disagree that they're super uptight, but given they got raided by people using that as an excuse to start weird debates I kinda see why they cbf distinguishing the 1% of people raising the issue from a genuine place of interest. Not Sseth's fault that a lot of his fans are braindead, but such is the way of things in Edgy Gaming YouTube.

Since the PT are a faction bent on exterminating mutants, I wouldn't imagine it'd be that much extra work. Just give players some kill everything missions, ruin their rep with other factions and generally cut much of the game's content. It'd be more of a challenge build/playthrough.

Feels like you'd reach a dead end of knowing what to do without some extremely contrived shit to direct you.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

but given they got raided by people

Nigger, that was 2 years ago. And I'd hardly call sending thousands of people to buy a game a "raid".

Again, it's the dev's attitude that brought this on. I don't see the Starsector devs pissing themselves on Twitter years later about muh Nazis.

Feels like you'd reach a dead end of knowing what to do without some extremely contrived shit to direct you.

Feels like you haven't played Geneforge, Arcanum or any other game that gives you an optional exterminatus ending.

Can we just admit they don't want to add it because of muh facism? (Which is something they themselves have said and still have pinned at the top of their Steam forum last time I checked.)

 

[Dadd]

Can we just admit they don't want to add it because of muh facism? (Which is something they themselves have said and still have pinned at the top of their Steam forum last time I checked.)

This is obvious. Why is anyone disputing this? lmao

 

[buffalo bill]

 

[Theodora]

Nigger, that was 2 years ago. And I'd hardly call sending thousands of people to buy a game a "raid".

I just said I didn't associate them with Sseth ffs <_> and it's been the same tired shit for two years, get over it, don't buy it. Why does it matter so much?

tl;dr what buffalo bill said.

This is obvious. Why is anyone disputing this? lmao

It's not a dispute, but the point is they're not going to do something they don't want to do with their own game when it would also arguably be a ton of work.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I rarely read the politics or beliefs of game developers. I could give two fucks. I just buy the merch and play it. I saw some odd shit with the son of Judges Guild skme years ago. DrivethruRPG stopped selling all JG product. Go fucking figure because of some idiot comment the son made. Meh. Good thing I bought a few products and pirated the rest (until those sites got nuked).

 

[Mauman]

This is obvious. Why is anyone disputing this? lmao

It's not a dispute, but the point is they're not going to do something they don't want to do with their own game when it would also arguably be a ton of work.

I feel dirty for saying this, but I agree with you. However, you can do this without being a narcissistic piece of shit that shouts "dUh NaHTZZZIss".

Also, nice moving the goalposts there.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

I just said I didn't associate them with Sseth ffs <_> and it's been the same tired shit for two years, get over it, don't buy it. Why does it matter so much?

Because the devs keep whining about it.

And because odds are something you very much like sucks. Why? Because this is the RPGCodex.

 

[Jigby]

How do you pronounce Qud, chud? Like Qin is pronounced chin?

 

[Theodora]

And because odds are something you very much like sucks. Why? Because this is the RPGCodex.

Dude, I've barely played Qud lol. I think it's a nice roguelike from what I've played, and it fits a profile of player that isn't particularly rare; but that's very limited compared to others and I'd recommend a lot of other retail titles first. There aren't a ton of "sophisticated" (as far as traditional roguelikes go) sci-fi releases to recommend to people, so it's inevitably going to get a fair bit of attention on that alone until someone does the whole "Dune"-esque setting better.

Maybe don't try to interpret everything through a tribalist lens based on presumptions? Hell, I don't even agree with the devs' decisions, but it sure as hell doesn't warrant this endless whinge where certain people seem deadset on contorting every discussion about the game.

Also, nice moving the goalposts there.

It's not really moving goalposts when you never argued the point being contested.

I feel dirty for saying this, but I agree with you.

Good for you, hardly shameful to not be vapid.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

And because odds are something you very much like sucks. Why? Because this is the RPGCodex.

Dude, I've barely played Qud lol. <blahblahblah how absolutely dare you etc>

I realize you're relatively new here, but this was the tagline of this website for well over a decade.

it sure as hell doesn't warrant this endless whinge where certain people seem deadset on contorting every discussion about the game.

Again, they keep bringing it up. They keep banning their fans. I'll keep talking about it.

If it upsets you, tell the devs to cut it out.


edit:


(updated with the deleted tweets)

Here's your citation, Theo.

I can also quote the devs bringing up Sseth over and over too, or their own Steam page where they cry about trolls and say they'll ban anyone who approves of the villains in their game.

edit: also, one of the devs is a convicted pedophile. Mods censored the thread.
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/caves-of-qud-part-time-contractor-is-a-pedophile.149186/page-6

 

[Berengar]

Dang this game rules!