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Broken Age - Double Fine's Kickstarter Adventure Game

Cowboy Moment

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Feb 8, 2011
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Allright, if you want to be like that, be like that. Despite what you may think, I'm not emotionally invested in the success or failure of Broken Age. I simply made an observation; I often observe the top sellers/steamcharts for games whose success I am interested in (have been watching Blackguards and MMX, hence I know that they've been hovering around the top10 since their respective launches). I honestly expected Broken Age to be higher upon release; third behind DayZ and Rust to be exact, so this is rather surprising.

For reference, The Walking Dead, which is the closest comparison I think, topped the list for a good few days if I remember correctly.
 

Athelas

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Not looking good at the moment bro. Maybe it'll pick up in a few hours when Kwans get back from work.
Seriously, are you out of your mind? A point and click adventure game, the most niche genre in gaming is the 10th best seller on steam, among all the AAA blockbuster games. And it doesn't look good? What planet are you living on?
Telltale makes 'adventure games' that are AAA blockbusters and receive GOTY awards. :M
 

J_C

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Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
Not looking good at the moment bro. Maybe it'll pick up in a few hours when Kwans get back from work.
Seriously, are you out of your mind? A point and click adventure game, the most niche genre in gaming is the 10th best seller on steam, among all the AAA blockbuster games. And it doesn't look good? What planet are you living on?
Telltale makes 'adventure games' that are AAA blockbusters and receive GOTY awards. :M
You mean The Walking Dead, which was one of the most popular thing in entertainment at that time? And no, Tim Schafer is not more known in mainstream gaming, than the walking dead. Most gamers today don't even know who he is.
Video is not working for me, it just shows clips from other Escapist shows.
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Video is not working for me, it just shows clips from other Escapist shows.

Try again.

The video is actually pretty good - Croshaw has written (text) adventure games before and he knows the genre.
 

FeelTheRads

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Yeah, you have to scroll down a lot to reach the average reviews, because it got great reviews for a niche game.

That's the problem, though. It's not a niche game. Fruity too-deep-for-you indie shit is all the rage with reviewers everywhere. Or, if you think niche is anything not AAA, then yeah, I guess it's niche.

And how are reviews relevant when you agree with them but totally wrong and payed off when you don't?

Game I don't like gets good reviews: woah coritos mountain jew
Game I like gets good reviews: they're totally right man, shows the game is good
 

WaffleStomper

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Yeah, you have to scroll down a lot to reach the average reviews, because it got great reviews for a niche game.

That's the problem, though. It's not a niche game. Fruity too-deep-for-you indie shit is all the rage with reviewers everywhere. Or, if you think niche is anything not AAA, then yeah, I guess it's niche.
really depends on how you classify "niche". Is it determined by reviews as your post implies ("fruity too-deep-for-you indie shit is all the rage with reviewers everywhere")? Sales numbers? Budget? I always thought it referred to a specific group of people with usually a relatively low number of targeted individuals.

the only recent title to push the genre closer to the mainstream is The Walking Dead. I say that because it pushed the interactive movie/cinematic approach that many modern/mainstream titles have been trying to achieve. In doing so it was able to open the game up to a lot of individuals who might not like the puzzles or the point and click adventure interface of the classic titles. Broken Age has simple puzzles but as Tim and other employees of DF have stated the puzzles are more difficult in part 2 as it's the meat of the game.

Is Broken Age comparable to TWD in a mainstream sense? As the kickstarter campaign states, this game is targeting old school adventure gamers. Is that not a particular niche group of people? Or do you think the game was created with a much wider (more mainstream) consumer base in mind?

What else has there been that has pushed the genre forward if it's not niche? Do you consider Daedalic and Wadget Eye games mainstream? What about the upcoming Armikrog.?
 

FeelTheRads

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As the kickstarter campaign states, this game is targeting old school adventure gamers.

Isn't this whole discussion about how the game doesn't respect the promise of the Kickstarter so it doesn't actually target old school adventure gamers (a niche), but rather as many people as possible?
 

WaffleStomper

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yes, but it really depends on the definition of "old school adventure game". for those who use the verb interface argument... do you consider Grim Fandango an old school adventure game?

I would also say all of Daedalic's work is influenced by old school adventure games... even The Night of The Rabbit which has basically the same control scheme as Broken Age.

I don't think Broken Age is necessarily being marketed to the masses. We still don't have the full game and even if the scope remains the same, I still think it's funny to associate point and click adventures with mainstream gaming.
 
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Self-Ejected

Bubbles

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In general, I'm kinda surprised that Blackguards is still hovering around the Steam top10 sellers, given the niche nature of the game, nonexistent marketing, Daedalic's lack of pedigree in this genre and lukewarm reviews from the AAA PR brigade. I'm not sure how to explain it.

Blackguards being so high on the list has been a surprise for me, too. The only reason I can think of is that there's a real shortage of TRPGs on Steam, but that reason alone still isn't good enough to explain how it's been managing to stay in or close to top 10 for a week now.

Man, when I heard TotalBiscuit said he knew people that spent 200 hours in Blackguard, it could be a ray of hope on the horizon and not only the codex likes TB games?

I want to believe that it's because the game is actually good, and more people enjoy well-designed TB combat than we were led to believe. I want to, but I dread having my hopes crushed yet again.

In any event, it does appear to be the most successful Daedalic game on Steam, I wonder how happy they are with it. Maybe use our newly acquired magazine prestige to inquire?

ITT people are surprised that a company whose games sell millions of copies in Germany makes an RPG based on Germany's favourite PnP licence and proceeds to sell millions of copies on Steam.
 

Dexter

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yes, but it really depends on the definition of "old school adventure game". for those who use the verb interface argument... do you consider Grim Fandango an old school adventure game?

I would also say all of Daedalic's work is influenced by old school adventure games... even The Night of The Rabbit which has basically the same control scheme as Broken Age.

I don't think Broken Age is necessarily being marketed to the masses. We still don't have the full game and even if the scope remains the same, I still think it's funny to associate point and click adventures with mainstream gaming.
I'll just quote myself:
I don’t think that „classic Adventure game“ is hard to define at all, in fact I think it is possibly the easiest thing ever since even the initial KickStarter video itself included all the references you could possibly need (if it didn’t, just imagine the most popular games in the genre which usually come down to LucasArts and SIERRA anyway with some other contenders like AdventureSoft):


0:37 – Grim Fandango (also notice the posters afterwards – Grim Fandango, The Secret of Monkey Island, Day of the Tentacle, Full Throttle)
1:32 – Maniac Mansion, The Secret of Monkey Island
2:28 – Depicted are again Day of the Tentacle, Full Throttle, Grim Fandango
3:20 – Old-school Adventure feature

As for defining Adventure games, they are usually a Mix of story, puzzles, characters and writing as the cornerstones of the genre.
Wikipedia describes it as: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventure_game
An adventure game is a video game in which the player assumes the role of protagonist in an interactive story driven by exploration and puzzle-solving. The genre’s focus on story allows it to draw heavily from other narrative-based media such as literature and film, encompassing a wide variety of literary genres. Nearly all adventure games (text and graphic) are designed for a single player, since this emphasis on story and character makes multi-player design difficult.

Graphic adventures largely developed from Text adventures, there is a short “documentary” of sorts exploring this and the growth of the genre, although the fifth part is lacking:




The term was largely coined and popularized by the first King’s Quest in 1984: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_graphic_adventure_games

There are various sub-genres, most notably Puzzle Adventures or First Person Adventure/Puzzle games that have largely arisen from Myst (which kind of created the genre) and encompass titles like Portal, Dream, Homesick, Montague’s Mount, Obduction, Ether One, Kairo, The Witness, XING and so on today. I’d find it very hard to describe many of these as “classic Adventure games”. They often sacrifice story and characterization in favor of puzzles.

The second note-worthy sub-genre are Interactive movies and FMV (full motion video) games that have largely started with Dragon’s Lair in 1983 and got especially popular through the 90s with titles released on CD-ROMs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_interactive_movies
There are still some games produced today like Heavy Rain, Beyond: Two Souls or even The Walking Dead games that loosely fit this sub-genre. They often sacrifice puzzles in favor of story and characters.

The third is “Action Adventure”, which is kind of a broad term of games that generally combine things like inventory and puzzles but largely focus on Action gameplay, the primary example being “Tomb Raider”. A lot of Adventure games like say Broken Sword or Alone in the Dark tried to go and “evolve” in this direction through the 00s: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action-adventure_game

In regards to Broken Age, I’d say it definitely fits the definition of an “Adventure game”, but it is more an “Adventure game Lite” with a focus on the Casual and tablet market similar to titles like Botanicula, Machinarium, Kentucky Route Zero, Superbrothers: Sword & Sworcery which Tim specifically called out as inspiration and doesn’t have all that much in common with the “classics” as many people hoped it would: http://www.gamespot.com/videos/broken-age-rethinking-a-classic-genre-for-the-mode/2300-6415966/

They even have “Casual” as a genre descriptor on the Steam store and I don’t think they did that as a mistake: http://store.steampowered.com/app/232790/


As for Grim Fandango and verb wheels, this was already discussed much earlier in the thread when I mistook a verb coin for its interface and remembered it actually was WASD: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...ter-adventure-game.69252/page-54#post-2943286
 

WaffleStomper

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Dexter: thanks for digging up an old post. It's kind of hard to get caught up to speed with 89 pages ._.

from your response, I'm assuming you would also say that Broken Age isn't targeting a specific niche? I get that they've associated "casual" with Broken Age and created a game that works on tablets (mainstream devices). Adventure game-lite is fair as it has all the necessary components of an adventure game per the definition you provided but with a more streamlined interface.

I would still say the game is aimed at the old school adventure gamer niche since the genre as a whole hasn't garnered any mainstream appeal or special attention in the previous/current generation. The Walking Dead approach on the other hand seemed to find a formula that somewhat works in mixing the now-popular/resurrected interactive movie experience with somewhat adventure-inspired mechanics. Personally... it's not the way I want to see the adventure game genre go (interactive gaming movies) as I'd take Broken Age over The Walking Dead (or anything by Telltale for that matter) 100 times over.
 

Cowboy Moment

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ITT people are surprised that a company whose games sell millions of copies in Germany makes an RPG based on Germany's favourite PnP licence and proceeds to sell millions of copies on Steam.

It's all because of the midgets, imo.
 

Broseph

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sUeY2JF.png
 

Boleskine

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I think this review is pretty fair and accurate overall on the strengths and weaknesses.

...

Broken Age is flawed, however—not because it is half a game but because it is, despite its charm, shallow. Schafer appears to have created a gorgeous world and then stripped it down to only the bare bones needed for the story to progress. The setup is fantastic; yet, not enough backstory makes it into the game. The characters are great; yet each character only has the ghost of a real personality—all quirks and no depth. The locations are evocative; yet, not enough hotspots exist in each location for the player to explore.

The game's puzzles blend seamlessly with the story. While this makes the puzzles more logical and less intrusive, it also makes them far too easy. The game's shallowness takes part of the blame. There is so little going on around the player that it is nearly impossible not to find the solution immediately. The game takes only about 4 hours to complete, if that. It is far too short, even for half a game. Playing an adventure game is in part about being challenged and forced to think outside the box. It is often through this process that the player uncovers aspects of the story and the world that may not be readily noticeable at first. In my opinion, modern developers often do not give enough credit to the intellect of their games' players. With Broken Age, I feel that Schafer, despite his years of experience making rather difficult but logical puzzles, has fallen into this same trap.

Broken Age goes off without a hitch, but it is all soul and little substance. The player proceeds through the story with the least possible resistance and is left wanting to know more about the fictional world and its inhabitants. Unlike the great adventure games of yesteryear, Broken Age has only a veneer of depth by comparison. This is a shame, because the inventive world that Schafer has created in Broken Age is ripe to support stronger characters, more details, and better puzzles.

Broken Age is, by all accounts, a success though not a triumph. The game is best enjoyed for what it is, not through the lens of the hype fueled expectations preceding it. I hope Schafer take these constructive criticisms to heart as he finishes the rest of the game. Releasing the game in parts provides Schafer the opportunity not only to complete the compelling story that the game begins to tell but to also flesh it out and make it real. If Schafer succeeds, the complete Broken Age will not be just an entertaining game but a truly great adventure.
 

suejak

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I think this review is pretty fair and accurate overall on the strengths and weaknesses.

...

Broken Age is flawed, however—not because it is half a game but because it is, despite its charm, shallow. Schafer appears to have created a gorgeous world and then stripped it down to only the bare bones needed for the story to progress. The setup is fantastic; yet, not enough backstory makes it into the game. The characters are great; yet each character only has the ghost of a real personality—all quirks and no depth. The locations are evocative; yet, not enough hotspots exist in each location for the player to explore.

The game's puzzles blend seamlessly with the story. While this makes the puzzles more logical and less intrusive, it also makes them far too easy. The game's shallowness takes part of the blame. There is so little going on around the player that it is nearly impossible not to find the solution immediately. The game takes only about 4 hours to complete, if that. It is far too short, even for half a game. Playing an adventure game is in part about being challenged and forced to think outside the box. It is often through this process that the player uncovers aspects of the story and the world that may not be readily noticeable at first. In my opinion, modern developers often do not give enough credit to the intellect of their games' players. With Broken Age, I feel that Schafer, despite his years of experience making rather difficult but logical puzzles, has fallen into this same trap.

Broken Age goes off without a hitch, but it is all soul and little substance. The player proceeds through the story with the least possible resistance and is left wanting to know more about the fictional world and its inhabitants. Unlike the great adventure games of yesteryear, Broken Age has only a veneer of depth by comparison. This is a shame, because the inventive world that Schafer has created in Broken Age is ripe to support stronger characters, more details, and better puzzles.

Broken Age is, by all accounts, a success though not a triumph. The game is best enjoyed for what it is, not through the lens of the hype fueled expectations preceding it. I hope Schafer take these constructive criticisms to heart as he finishes the rest of the game. Releasing the game in parts provides Schafer the opportunity not only to complete the compelling story that the game begins to tell but to also flesh it out and make it real. If Schafer succeeds, the complete Broken Age will not be just an entertaining game but a truly great adventure.
This plus the Yahtzee review are basically all you need to know about the game. I can't imagine a better treatment.
 

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