Interview Brian Fargo Interview and Career Retrospective at Polygon

[Abelian]

I also think PoE will outsell WL2, simply because of the nostalgia factor if for no other reason. The IE games sold millions of copies and PoE tries to consciously imitate them, while many of WL2 backers weren't even born when WL1 was released.

 

[Vault Dweller]

My point was that BIS' games failed to capitalize on the Bioware games success, despite being well designed and rather enjoyable. Why? Poor marketing.

Some games become "megahits" for reasons that are hard to understand. To blame the difference between a mere success and a megahit all on "marketing" strikes me as simplistic thinking.

Marketing is what makes shit sell. When it comes to sales, it is the most important factor, so I'm surprised why you find this notion simplistic.

If any of these Kickstarter games proves to be a megahit, well, that'll be great, but none of them are relying on it. Remember, these games are no longer "contemporary". There's an upper limit to the amount of people willing to try something that's explicitly labelling itself "oldschool".

People will try anything if they hear and read about it often enough (especially if they read that it's awesome).

 

[Vault Dweller]

My point was that BIS' games failed to capitalize on the Bioware games success, despite being well designed and rather enjoyable. Why? Poor marketing. Slam dunk or not, they could have sold better.

I thought Black Isle was the publisher of Bioware back then, i.e. responsible for the marketing of both the BG's and it's own IWD's/PS:T.

Don't recall what their arrangement was but Tom Ohle was Bioware's PR guy and he was very good at it (even had an account on the Codex which was very of him). He founded his own PR company and has a good client list including a little known company called Valve.

 

[Infinitron]

Marketing is what makes shit sell. When it comes to sales, it is the most important factor, so I'm surprised why you find this notion simplistic.

Yeah, we aren't going to agree on this topic, Mr. Marketing VP, so let's end this argument before it begins.

Don't recall what their arrangement was but Tom Ohle was Bioware's PR guy and he was very good at it (even had an account on the Codex which was very of him). He founded his own PR company and has a good client list including a little known company called Valve.

What is Tom Ohle's account name?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Vandal.

 

[Xeon]

I might be wrong but I think Banished relied on word of mouth as its marketing and when it was released a lot of people bought it because it was made by one guy or something.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I'm pretty sure that I saw Banished previews and LPs before it was released. It was on RPS, Eurogamer, Kotaku, etc. I think it was the youtubers that made it so well-known but it's a form of marketing these days.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/03/22/simsettlement-banished-is-about-survival-and-life/

 

[tuluse]

I agree with you on the importance of marketing, but I think you're underestimating Obsidian's marketing abilities Vince.

I think they also have a more appealing product (regardless of quality in this case). The beautiful 2D backgrounds, the real time gameplay, dwarves and elves. It's going to outsell W2, and I suspect by a wide margin.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Wouldn't say no to that. I have a huge respect for the talent Obsidian gathered and want to see the company successful enough to ditch the licensed IP and go creative.

 

[Abelian]

Vandal.

I know that you and Infinitorn disagree about the effect of marketing, but try to keep it civil.

Spoiler

 

[sea]

Some games become "megahits" for reasons that are hard to understand. To blame the difference between a mere success and a megahit all on "marketing" strikes me as simplistic thinking.

In the case of the Infinity Engine games I think it was the explicit D&D licensing, the fact that the games were fairly innovative and visually impressive for the time, etc. that drove interest and momentum. Baldur's Gate was first so it was biggest, and even at the time the Icewind Dales etc. were considered cheaper "knock-offs", and Torment never had as much of a following due to it being based on Planescape (which was never super-popular compared to Forgotten Realms). Didn't necessarily help that Icewind Dale was marketed as a Diablo competitor yet really was nothing of the sort, other than featuring less story-driven gameplay and a random loot system.

In other words, Baldur's Gate especially was the KotOR of its time, albeit aimed at a bit of a different audience and featuring different mechanics. Compared to RPGs that preceded it though, it was absolutely more accessible to wider audiences than old dungeon crawlers (especially given the rise of PC RTS games from 1995-1997 or so).

 

[Decado]

Fargo could sell shit to a toilet. Which is why I think WL2 is going to outsell PoE.

But I will happily be wrong. I am more excited for PoE by a wide, wide margin. I don't know if it is the setting or the chance to play in a new IP or what, and I don't mean to scoff at WL2 because I am also looking forward to playing that. A lot. But if you made me pick one, I'd pick PoE. And that's not a knock against Fargo and his crew, I just want to fuck some dudes up with a sword.

ETA: I'm also a littled burned out on all the post-apoc stuff.

 

[Infinitron]

Fargo could sell shit to a toilet.

I think some people on the Codex allow themselves to be swayed by people's perceived "personal styles" or personality types, to the extent that they ignore what those people have actually been doing.

Brian Fargo looks and talks like a "slick salesman", so people just sort of assume he's a "marketing genius". Meanwhile his former underling Feargus comes across an awkward, bashful geek, and the lead designer Josh Sawyer as an ivory tower know-it-all hipster. Yet if you look at what inXile and Obsidian have both been doing to actually promote their games' public awareness, I would argue that Obsidian has done a better job. More updates, more communication (weekly flamewars with Sawyer at the Obsidian forums, yay!), a fancy website, a partnership with a publisher that the target audience respects. I could probably think of more. That awkward geek is actually a shrewd manager who has kept a company of 100+ people alive for a decade against all odds, and the ivory tower hipster is actually a remarkably effective communicator and interviewee when he wants to be.

And again, it's my job to notice and keep track of every piece of publicity these games release, so I believe I know what I'm talking about here.

 

[Davaris]

They haven't been pushing the "Godfather of Fallout!" angle for nothing.

That's a catchy one liner. Its a mind worm. Their marketing started well before they got the money to make the game.

 

[Infinitron]

To be fair, inXile does have a few "marketing strengths" that Obsidian doesn't:

1) Brian Fargo is much more active in promoting his games on Twitter than anybody at Obsidian. He posts photos and reveals all sorts of anecdotes from development. In contrast, Sawyer uses his Twitter account mostly for random chatting and lulz type stuiff, while Obsidian's official feed is barely used. I'm a little puzzled by how Obsidian does so many things right in promoting their game, yet they neglect Twitter.

2) The "fuck the publishers" angle. It's getting old by now, but it's still a strong message. Obsidian doesn't seem to have the same sort of "fuck those guys, this is why we're better" mantra that they can repeat.

3) Quantity has a quality all its own. The fact that inXile is now doing TWO games gives them a certain cachet that Obsidian doesn't have yet. They're not just the company that's making that one game now, they're "oldschool RPGs r us". Also, one of those games is Torment.

I don't think that these things are a replacement for actually communicating more information about their games, though.

 

[tuluse]

I think some people on the Codex allow themselves to be swayed by people's perceived "personal styles" or personality types, to the extent that they ignore what those people have actually been doing.

Brian Fargo looks and talks like a "slick salesman", so people just sort of assume he's a "marketing genius". Meanwhile his former underling Feargus comes across an awkward, bashful geek, and the lead designer Josh Sawyer as an ivory tower know-it-all hipster. Yet if you look at what inXile and Obsidian have both been doing to actually promote their games' public awareness, I would argue that Obsidian has done a better job. More updates, more communication (weekly flamewars with Sawyer at the Obsidian forums, yay!), a fancy website, a partnership with a publisher that the target audience respects. I could probably think of more. That awkward geek is actually a shrewd manager who has kept a company of 100+ people alive for a decade against all odds, and the ivory tower hipster is actually a remarkably effective communicator and interviewee when he wants to be.

And again, it's my job to notice and keep track of every piece of publicity these games release, so I believe I know what I'm talking about here.

One could argue that the fact Fargo is managing to raise approximately as much money as Obsidian in a kickstarter is actually him punching well above his weight class and showing that he is a marketing genius.

All that said, it looks like both InXile and Obsidian are getting plenty of press and there is lots of excitement for all the kickstarter projects.

 

[deuxhero]

Is there a pastebin or something? Polygon is literally funded by MS and full of SJW shits.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I would argue that Obsidian has done a better job. More updates, more communication (weekly flamewars with Sawyer at the Obsidian forums, yay!), a fancy website, a partnership with a publisher that the target audience respects.

Obsidian did a better job at communicating their design ideas and explaining the game's concept. Fargo did a better job selling the idea of his game and hyping it as the next best thing since sliced bread.

 

[Curious_Tongue]

Marketing is what makes shit sell. When it comes to sales, it is the most important factor, so I'm surprised why you find this notion simplistic.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-04-24-brian-fargo-backers-say-just-get-it-right

The change for InXile is interesting as it becomes a publisher in the new digital distribution age. "You barely need marketing because word of mouth is everything these days," Fargo pointed out. "And your sales force is your backers."

 

[Curious_Tongue]

Word of mouth turns flops into cult hits, and cult hits can be reasonably profitable in the digital age.

 

[jdinatale]

I think Josh E. Sawyer has that sex appeal X-factor that will make PoE a best seller. Let's face it - who's more dreamy, Brian Fucking Fargo or Josh E. Sawyer?

 

[l3loodAngel]

I am not sure what you are arguing about. Obsidian sucks at selling stuff. Hence Fargo should easily outsell Obsidian. Their selling message is mixed, convoluted and completely lacks focus. Obsidian: PE is an old-school, andtigrognard, learn on the go and DnD sucks kind of game.

Not to mention that Sawyer completely lacks understanding of his audience. When about inventory management he talks about scrolls carried by mage. He doesn't pause to think that 50 heavy armor suits, which you were too lazy to sell, carried by three mages in a joint inventory kills immersion the second you open it. I supported the game both on KS and on the codex and I am not sure if I want to play it.

At this point it would be wiser just to release technical specs. This is how you sell and Fargo knows it. .

 

[jdinatale]

Fargo could sell a lighter to a mermaid.

 

[Infinitron]

Obsidian did a better job at communicating their design ideas and explaining the game's concept. Fargo did a better job selling the idea of his game and hyping it as the next best thing since sliced bread.

I don't know what you mean by "selling the idea". Apparently, since the end of the Kickstarter, Obsidian has gotten an additional 40,000-50,000 backers or so. No Steam. That's not Star Citizen numbers but it's pretty impressive.

As I said however, I do agree that Obsidian's marketing approach lacks a strong "this is why we're better than those other guys" message. That seems like a strategic decision - perhaps they don't want to offend publishers. Even with Torment you have super nice guys like Colin and Adam occasionally taking potshots at Bioware. Obsidian could probably do more of that. Although Sawyer does implicitly diss almost every RPG in existence when he talks about design.

Anyway, my point is, I don't necessarily believe that sort of "negative approach" is absolutely required for an effective marketing campaign.

 

[Infinitron]

Let's stop and look at the facts here for a second. You have two game developers. One of them is a 30-man outfit currently producing two turn-based RPGs, including a turn-based Torment. The other is an 100+ employees mid-tier console developer producing a "real time with elves" fantasy RPG.

Vault Dweller appears to sincerely believe that the former are vaguely sinister super salesmen taking money they probably don't deserve, while the latter are inept nice guy awkward geeks (just like us!) who deserve to catch a break. He doesn't seem to realize that the fact that he feels that way means that Obsidian's "marketing campaign" is working its magic...on him.