Interview Brian Fargo Interview and Career Retrospective at Polygon

[tuluse]

Vault Dweller

Obsidian raised more money for PE than Fargo did for W2 despite sounding like they were making the game up as they went along during the fund raiser. I think it's almost a certainty that PE will outsell W2.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Exactly. Good concept, low salesmanship. The latter will be critical when the game is ready to be released but maybe Obsidian would surprise us all. Needless to say, I hope they will.

 

[Zed]

Exactly. Good concept, low salesmanship. The latter will be critical when the game is ready to be released but maybe Obsidian would surprise us all. Needless to say, I hope they will.

paradox are pretty good at selling things. around the time CK2 was released I saw ads everywhere.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Paradox are small time and running ads aren't the same as having the media salivating and praising your game. I'd say that Bethesda/Pete Hines are probably the best at it and Fargo is good enough and has the right connections to come close. Obsidian isn't and doesn't.

 

[Rake]

Paradox are small time and running ads aren't the same as having the media salivating and praising your game. I'd say that Bethesda/Pete Hines are probably the best at it and Fargo is good enough and has the right connections to come close. Obsidian isn't and doesn't.

It has strong connections to Fargo, so they can always ask for tips

 

[Infinitron]

Wasteland 2 will not outsell Pillars of Eternity, for the simple reason that there just aren't any other serious "oldschool RTwP" RPGs on the horizon, while turn-based has become well-represented. Obsidian has a captive audience here.

Vault Dweller is letting some form of resentment(?) cloud his better judgement. Which is especially weird coming from a guy who also seems to resent the RTwP IE games for outselling the turn-based Fallout, but whatever

 

[Crooked Bee]

Fargo is a hype machine, true. However, it's hard to say how good Fargo is at selling W2 until it actually gets reviewed. Then we'll see how much gaming journalists really love him. Pre-release hype doesn't always guarantee good reviews.

Also dat Infinity Engine nostalgia's gonna help Obsidian a lot.

 

[Rake]

Which is especially weird coming from a guy who also seems to resent the RTwP IE games for outselling the turn-based Fallout, but whatever

The key here being that Wasteland 2 isn't Fallout. Not even close, or there wouldn't be so much complaining around here.
While PoE seems to take the best parts of the IE and actualy improve on other parts. Seems being the key here, since we didn't play it yet, and Sawyer system is unproven.

 

[Infinitron]

Which is especially weird coming from a guy who also seems to resent the RTwP IE games for outselling the turn-based Fallout, but whatever

The key here being that Wasteland 2 isn't Fallout. Not even close, or there wouldn't be so much complaining around here.
While PoE seems to take the best parts of the IE and actualy improve on other parts. Seems being the key here, since we didn't play it yet, and Sawyer system is unproven.

OK but I'm not sure how that's relevant to what we're talking about, which is what will sell more

I'm saying that for VD to believe that a turn-based RPG will outsell an RTwP RPG goes against a lot of what he's said over the years.

 

[Decado]

Wasteland 2 will not outsell Pillars of Eternity, for the simple reason that there just aren't any other serious "oldschool RTwP" RPGs on the horizon, while turn-based has become well-represented. Obsidian has a captive audience here.

I have to disagree. WL2 has a well-oiled PR machine running, not to mention a huge potential fanbase in the post-apoc genre. They haven't been pushing the "Godfather of Fallout!" angle for nothing.

I don't think it is going to steamroll PoE, but it will probably outsell it. If I am wrong I will buy you a bottle of good whisky.

 

[Rake]

Which is especially weird coming from a guy who also seems to resent the RTwP IE games for outselling the turn-based Fallout, but whatever

The key here being that Wasteland 2 isn't Fallout. Not even close, or there wouldn't be so much complaining around here.
While PoE seems to take the best parts of the IE and actualy improve on other parts. Seems being the key here, since we didn't play it yet, and Sawyer system is unproven.

OK but I'm not sure how that's relevant to what we're talking about, which is what will sell more

I'm saying that for VD to believe that a turn-based RPG will outsell an RTwP RPG goes against a lot of what he's said over the years.

I don't disagree that PoE will sell considerably more than W2. Almost everyone who will play W2 will pick PoE as well, while the opposite isn't true.

Decado
Fantasy > post apoc so i'm not realy sure what you're talking about. But i will accept the whisky

 

[Vault Dweller]

Wasteland 2 will not outsell Pillars of Eternity, for the simple reason that there just aren't any other serious "oldschool RTwP" RPGs on the horizon, while turn-based has become well-represented. Obsidian has a captive audience here.

Vault Dweller is letting some form of resentment(?) cloud his better judgement. Which is especially weird coming from a guy who also seems to resent the RTwP IE games for outselling the turn-based Fallout, but whatever

What's with you seeing resentment in my every post?

No, I don't resent Fargo (why should I?). My old posts on RPG development cycle weren't an attack on Fargo but my thoughts on how long it takes to make a full-scale RPG. I don't resent the IE games for outselling Fallout either as that would be idiotic. I dislike BG for being poorly designed (in my humble opinion) not for being a hit.

Yes, PE is RTwP and a game billed as a spiritual successor to the IE games, but not every IE game sold well. IWD didn't. PST didn't. RTwP isn't a magic formula for success, it's merely one of the ingredients. It takes salesmanship Bethesda-style to do well on that level (Obsidian is a fairly large company after all and for PE to be a game-changer, it should be a hit not a game that would earn Obsidian a few milions).

 

[Infinitron]

Actually, even PS:T's total sales figures (which were 400kish I think?) are enough for these Kickstarted RPGs to be considered successes. Fargo set a desired sales target of 200,000-300,000 copies for Wasteland 2. Granted, that was almost a year ago, so he might have adjusted it upwards since then due to the game's (I presume) rising budget.

 

[Rake]

Wasteland 2 will not outsell Pillars of Eternity, for the simple reason that there just aren't any other serious "oldschool RTwP" RPGs on the horizon, while turn-based has become well-represented. Obsidian has a captive audience here.

Vault Dweller is letting some form of resentment(?) cloud his better judgement. Which is especially weird coming from a guy who also seems to resent the RTwP IE games for outselling the turn-based Fallout, but whatever

What's with you seeing resentment in my every post?

No, I don't resent Fargo (why should I?). My old posts on RPG development cycle weren't an attack on Fargo but my thoughts on how long it takes to make a full-scale RPG. I don't resent the IE games for outselling Fallout either as that would be idiotic. I dislike BG for being poorly designed (in my humble opinion) not for being a hit.

Yes, PE is RTwP and a game billed as a spiritual successor to the IE games, but not every IE game sold well. IWD didn't. PST didn't. RTwP isn't a magic formula for success, it's merely one of the ingredients. It takes salesmanship Bethesda-style to do well on that level (Obsidian is a fairly large company after all and for PE to be a game-changer, it should be a hit not a game that would earn Obsidian a few milions).

I don't see the press paying more attention to W2 than PoE though, despite W2 being closer to release.
The way i see it, more people are interested in PoE than W2 until now, while the Real game changer(the casuals) will depend on reviews. And i don't see why W2 will review better than PoE.(nor worse for that matter, i don't know how someone can know that beforehand)

 

[Zed]

I think Pillars of Eternity will outsell Wasteland 2 because it will be a much better game. Maybe I'm crazy.

Paradox are small time and running ads aren't the same as having the media salivating and praising your game. I'd say that Bethesda/Pete Hines are probably the best at it and Fargo is good enough and has the right connections to come close. Obsidian isn't and doesn't.

Keep in mind we're talking about PC-only games where a lot of "advertisement" is free through word-of-mouth. We're not talking about multi-plat mainstream competition where publishers will have to buy 200m tall E3 banners. Paradox knows their audience very well, and will have much more cost-effective advertisement than Bethesda's multimillion carpet-bombing.

Media praising one game over another has more to do with mass appeal of the title than any publisher's effort.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I'm saying that for VD to believe that a turn-based RPG will outsell an RTwP RPG goes against a lot of what he's said over the years.

Not sure what exactly you're referring to as there hasn't been that many TB games in the last 15 years. You can't compare "sleepers" like Fallout that had little to no marketing to games like BG or Morrowind or Oblivion or Dragon Age.

It's easier to market a RT game, that's true, but a well-marketed TB game can easily outsell a poorly marketed (PST anyone?) RT game. Like a true craftsman, Obsidian isn't good at hyping and marketing. Even their KS campaign shows it.

 

[Infinitron]

The only reason people said PS:T sold "poorly" was because it didn't do as well as Baldur's Gate. Fargo was hoping that Planescape license would be a major asset to help prop up his dying company. For a small independent developer though, PS:T sales numbers are more than enough.

As for IWD, I don't think anybody has ever actually said it sold "poorly", probably because it was planned from the beginning to be a "slam dunk" low budget type thing. It's all about the expectations

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Wasteland 2 will not outsell Pillars of Eternity, for the simple reason that there just aren't any other serious "oldschool RTwP" RPGs on the horizon, while turn-based has become well-represented. Obsidian has a captive audience here.

Yeah, not to mention that unlike InXile (with their poor track record) Obsidian has over the years built a loyal fanbase that will likely buy PoE even if they never played or liked IE games simply because it's an Obsidian game.

 

[tuluse]

I have to disagree. WL2 has a well-oiled PR machine running, not to mention a huge potential fanbase in the post-apoc genre. They haven't been pushing the "Godfather of Fallout!" angle for nothing.

I don't think it is going to steamroll PoE, but it will probably outsell it. If I am wrong I will buy you a bottle of good whisky.

I'll take that bet.

I think Pillars of Eternity will outsell Wasteland 2 because it will be a much better game. Maybe I'm crazy.

Since when have better games sold better than worse ones?

 

[Zed]

I think Pillars of Eternity will outsell Wasteland 2 because it will be a much better game. Maybe I'm crazy.

Since when have better games sold better than worse ones?

when they have competed for the same audience around the same time.

 

[Vault Dweller]

The only reason people said PS:T sold "poorly" was because it didn't do as well as Baldur's Gate. Fargo was hoping that Planescape license would be a major asset to help prop up his dying company. For a small independent developer though, PS:T sales numbers are more than enough.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't inXile smaller than Obsidian which was burning 1 mil a month 2 years ago? Thus, more "agile" inXile can easily maneuver around KS to keep itself afloat while heavier Obsidian has to deal with publishers to keep its wheels turning.

As for PST, it's hard to compare store distribution to digital.

As for IWD, I don't think anybody has ever actually said it sold "poorly", probably because it was planned from the beginning to be a "slam dunk" low budget type thing. It's all about the expectations

My point was that BIS' games failed to capitalize on the Bioware games success, despite being well designed and rather enjoyable. Why? Poor marketing. Slam dunk or not, they could have sold better.

 

[tuluse]

when they have competed for the same audience around the same time.

I'm not convinced. If this was the case Underrail would be outselling Wasteland 2.

 

[Zed]

when they have competed for the same audience around the same time.

I'm not convinced. If this was the case Underrail would be outselling Wasteland 2.

you got me there.

 

[Infinitron]

when they have competed for the same audience around the same time.

I'm not convinced. If this was the case Underrail would be outselling Wasteland 2.

There's also some distance between July (my current estimated WL2 release date) and December. If you want to talk about competition, look at Divinity:OS and Wasteland 2.

My point was that BIS' games failed to capitalize on the Bioware games success, despite being well designed and rather enjoyable. Why? Poor marketing.

Some games become "megahits" for reasons that are hard to understand. To blame the difference between a mere success and a megahit all on "marketing" strikes me as simplistic thinking.

If any of these Kickstarter games proves to be a megahit, well, that'll be great, but none of them are relying on it. Remember, these games are no longer "contemporary". There's an upper limit to the amount of people willing to try something that's explicitly labelling itself "oldschool".

 

[Athelas]

My point was that BIS' games failed to capitalize on the Bioware games success, despite being well designed and rather enjoyable. Why? Poor marketing. Slam dunk or not, they could have sold better.

I thought Black Isle was the publisher of Bioware back then, i.e. responsible for the marketing of both the BG's and it's own IWD's/PS:T.