BioWare saved the genre from certain death

[Clockwork Knight]

I like how a dumbfuck's favorite word is "dumbfuck"

kinda poetic

 

[janjetina]

I'll give you some pointers: you say "BG" and then list Melf's Minute Meteors which are not in the game

Irrelevant for the spirit of the argument. They are in BG 2, which I've played a few times, unlike BG, which I played once. It is the same combat system with much better encounters in BG 2 anyway.

(nor there is any wizard of high enough level to use them);

No 6th level wizard for the 3rd level spell?

you try the whole DURRRR HUYRRR IS SO SIMPLE but then admit that you still need to debuff and cast AoE fucking up your entire pathetic abortion of an argument;

In a small minority of the total fights. Pressing an icon for breach (against a wizard) OR an icon for Fireball (against a group of Orcs) doesn't constitute deep level of involvement. Even in that case, you spend much more time twiddling your thumbs and watching the combat play itself. Particularly if you exploit Monster Summoning.

you clumsily force the point you tried to make(ITZ ALL JUST WATCHING), and then you deliver the punchline(our punchline, you thought that was a perfectly logical conclusion ) by stating that if encounters in "BG" are too easy/simple, ALL games which use rtwp are too easy/simple.

Only a moron like you would call that sentence "a conclusion". Let me give you a clue: it as an observation. I guess they don't teach reading comprehension at 4chan. Your mind reading abilities are unimpressive as well.

Since you've breached the subject, I am very interested in RTWP RPGs with deeply involved tactical combat. I'm sure that you'll be able to provide many examples.

Of course, I'd prefer that you get your worthless hide back to 4chan, and take Ch1ef, Clockwork Knight, sheek and the rest of the dumbfuck menagerie with you.

Do you watch anime, perchance?

No, so keep your recommendations to yourself.

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

Because it gives more connection to what PC does - it's active, unlike watching the character attack by himself.

Then just set it to pause every round. No matter what you are going to watch. Even in an action game you press the button and watch. FO was nothing but watching. As much as I like FO the worse combat encounter in that game sticks with me more than anything. It was when I had to guard Brahmin against a pack of Wolves. Halfway through the battle the Wolves flee and I spend almost a half an hour watching 2 or 3 dumb NPCs waste rounds shooting and mostly missing zigzagging Wolves that for whatever reason cant flee off of the screen. That’s what I call watching. Then the mission glitched and failed. The guy told me I let all of the Brahmin died. Luckily FO gives you the choice to wait until nightfall sneak into the lying cheats house and kill him. I also killed his Brahmin. Too bad we couldnt put them in bed with him.

Err...
No. It's before you reach any skill in stealth that allows reliably t reliably stay hidden in shadow for more than 2 rounds, which has nothing to do with level of enemies.
And I don't recall seeing enemies that "sniff you out" in BG1.
Anyway, anyone should be able to "sniff out" someone who prances before their eyes unless there is a total darkness.

It was scripted. Certain high lvl NPC would just initiate dialog so stealth didn’t work. I don’t remember if BG had stealth proof magic and wards but later IE did. So even at high lvls stealth was no panacea. I didn’t have much of an issue with daytime stealth. I saw it as a decent simulation of spying and subterfuge. Your lvl was too low to use it over much ground and you always wanted an escape path so you didn’t want to get too deep into enemy territory.

It was still a huge net gain over the altnernative which are usally no stealth at all or an really more broken system like DA’s.

To me there is no comparison. If I’m deving any combat I start with the tenets of Sun Tzu.

Win without fighting BG virtually eliminated random encounters, using weapon speed instead of initiatives boosted the efficiency of ranged weapons. With stealth, certain spells and ranged weapons you could avoid combat or defeat enemies without fighting them. The Gold Box games whisked you to battle world.

Avoid Strength Attack weakness. With BG you had the ability to enter and exit combat. If you were fighting a wizard that was surrounded by henchmen you could attack-- quickly kill henchmen and leave. You could attack from different angles. You could attack from behind the defense.

Know your enemy. That’s the value of stealth, invisibility, and in later games you had scrying spells. This added a whole layer of battle planning.

Deception. When you aren’t whisked into battle world you can do things like faint attacks, or attack or split your party. You can send a weak force of summoned creatures to the head then attack from behind. You can have an invisible mage cast charm person etc etc


Terrain. Again this was one of Tzu’s most important precepts and it’s practically eliminated when an RPG uses battle world.

BG clubs the Gold Box games with depth and strategy.

also I dont know what PorkaMorka is talking about as a whole the Gold Box games were not tougher than BG. PoD surely was. It was the toughest RPG ever IMO, The Dark Queen of Krynn was and a couple battles in Azure Bonds and at least the last battle in Treasures was tougher than anything in BG but the rest of the games were right around or below BG’s difficulty. PoD, and DQoK were tough because they were cheap. You faced encounters that only a party of duel classed humans could hope to defeat.

 

[Emotional Vampire]

I'll give you some pointers: you say "BG" and then list Melf's Minute Meteors which are not in the game

Irrelevant for the spirit of the argument. They are in BG 2, which I've played a few times, unlike BG, which I played once. It is the same combat system with much better encounters in BG 2 anyway.

(nor there is any wizard of high enough level to use them);

No 6th level wizard for the 3rd level spell?

you try the whole DURRRR HUYRRR IS SO SIMPLE but then admit that you still need to debuff and cast AoE fucking up your entire pathetic abortion of an argument;

In a small minority of the total fights. Pressing an icon for breach (against a wizard) OR an icon for Fireball (against a group of Orcs) doesn't constitute deep level of involvement. Even in that case, you spend much more time twiddling your thumbs and watching the combat play itself. Particularly if you exploit Monster Summoning.

you clumsily force the point you tried to make(ITZ ALL JUST WATCHING), and then you deliver the punchline(our punchline, you thought that was a perfectly logical conclusion ) by stating that if encounters in "BG" are too easy/simple, ALL games which use rtwp are too easy/simple.

Only a moron like you would call that sentence "a conclusion". Let me give you a clue: it as an observation. I guess they don't teach reading comprehension at 4chan. Your mind reading abilities are unimpressive as well.

Since you've breached the subject, I am very interested in RTWP RPGs with deeply involved tactical combat. I'm sure that you'll be able to provide many examples.

Of course, I'd prefer that you get your worthless hide back to 4chan, and take Ch1ef, Clockwork Knight, sheek and the rest of the dumbfuck menagerie with you.

Do you watch anime, perchance?

No, so keep your recommendations to yourself.

whoa dude, I already had to insult my intelligence by addressing your bullshit first time around. I'll let someone with bigger tolerance for stupidity follow up.

 

[Inanity]

I would agree that they saved the genre,but they have been going down the Bethsoft route of player mashing button over and over equals better RPG game.

Witness Dragon Age.

Once i read that they decided to do away with weapon stats affecting hit rate i knew they caved into the tween crowd that believes Twilight is the bestest/darkest monster movie ever made..and that the Sci-Fi RPG action game is going to be now an action RPG with emphasis on action and the RPG element being delegated to question and answer between loading sessions.

I'm still going to buy the game cause i got a save from the last one taking up precious 360 harddrve space.

Sometimes i wonder if the same people who whined and cried on the Beth forums to make their games less RPG and more action-adventure,are the same ones screaming on the Bioware forums for the same type of gameplay.

 

[Volourn]

BG > POR

Period.

 

[PorkaMorka]

PorkaMorka??

What was your issue with player archery?

With a properly built party BG1 archery is exceedingly strong, and trivializes many encounters.

Especially problematic is the mindless, select all, point and click nature of archery in that game.

Bioware was aware of this, and made sure that in BG2 archery was far less capable of winning fights on auto pilot.

also I dont know what PorkaMorka is talking about as a whole the Gold Box games were not tougher than BG. PoD surely was. It was the toughest RPG ever IMO, The Dark Queen of Krynn was and a couple battles in Azure Bonds and at least the last battle in Treasures was tougher than anything in BG but the rest of the games were right around or below BG’s difficulty. PoD, and DQoK were tough because they were cheap. You faced encounters that only a party of duel classed humans could hope to defeat.

They were still a heck of a lot more difficult than BG1, pre expansion there were very few challenging fights in unmodded BG1.

And no offense, but most of the stuff you mention in BG1 isn't really needed or useful at all. I always avoided scouting as the forced dialog scripts would trigger on your stealther and mess everything up.

And one of the weakest aspects of the infinity engine is how poor the ability to use terrain was, compared to a proper tile based game. Positioning was unclear as was pathfinding, and the terrain consisted of... a painting with passable and impassible areas. Pretty, but many, many many RPGs did terrain better as far as the effect on combat.

I seriously think you guys are confusing BG2 combat and TOTSC combat with BG1 combat, BG1 had little to distinguish it besides the Saverok fight.

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

Sometimes i wonder if the same people who whined and cried on the Beth forums to make their games less RPG and more action-adventure,are the same ones screaming on the Bioware forums for the same type of gameplay.

People flooded Beth because realtime single player games without parties are usally boring. That was the knock on Morrowind. A lot of people wanted KOTOR to be an action RPG. Other than that you dont hear that talk on Bioware's forums. You hear more people calling for 6 man parties.

BG > POR

Period.

Why dont ya take out your Biophone and ask them to do a remake after Atari loses the D&D license. Tell them I speak for PC and console gamers. Tell them I want ME dialog, BG 2 combat, and at least DA's C&C.

The problem with PoR is its age so we need a remake. At its core its pure greatness. It had a good story that was told beautifully, with the best encounters in RPG history. I do have beef with all of those orcs in the Temple but then again if we lived in a world where the gods were as active as they were in the FR before Wotc killed most of them you would see more church goers. Anyhoo break out the Biophone.

With a properly built party BG1 archery is exceedingly strong, and trivializes many encounters.

Especially problematic is the mindless, select all, point and click nature of archery in that game.

Bioware was aware of this, and made sure that in BG2 archery was far less capable of winning fights on auto pilot.

Thats an area where I can agree to disagree witch is kinda hard for me because I'm an asshole. Oh its true that ranged weapons were spanking in BG and IWD but me, I liked it. If you ask me ranged weapons dont get enough love in most RPGs. In DA I swear you shoot Q-tips instead of arrows. Besides a lot of the enemies took advantage of it too, especially those Kobolds with their fire arrows.

They were still a heck of a lot more difficult than BG1, pre expansion there were very few challenging fights in unmodded BG1.

BG had its share of tough encounters. There was just more ways to avoid them or cheat a bit. At lvl 1 you faced a mirror imaged wizard that could cast lighting bolt. The thing is though you could run into a temple when he started casting and make him waste his spells which is kinda realistic and kinda cheap at the same time.

And no offense, but most of the stuff you mention in BG1 isn't really needed or useful at all. I always avoided scouting as the forced dialog scripts would trigger on your stealther and mess everything up.

True in most encounters but just about every major encounter required something like that to avoid reload.

And one of the weakest aspects of the infinity engine is how poor the ability to use terrain was, compared to a proper tile based game. Positioning was unclear as was pathfinding, and the terrain consisted of... a painting with passable and impassible areas. Pretty, but many, many many RPGs did terrain better as far as the effect on combat.

It wasnt just passable and impassible, sometimes there were narrow passages that could be used. This was especially useful when leading enemies into ambushes.

 

[Volourn]

"The problem with PoR is its age so we need a remake. At its core its pure greatness. It had a good story that was told beautifully, with the best encounters in RPG history."

POR was good for whatn it was. Buit, it wans't that great. It had a capable story that moved the action on. That's it. And, no, it didn't have the best encvounters in RPG history. That's poppycock. It's time has passed.

I wouldn't mind a remake so it could be a REAL RPG.

POR was a fun game... when I was a kiddie. As an adult, no. If a kiddie like me could beat it, it can't be THAT hard.

R00fles!

 

[random_encounter]

Gave it a shot in the arm, sure, but saved the genre from certain death? Before this turns into another thread mythologizing Bioware, let me say fuck no. There was nothing "certain" about it.

RPGs have always been something of a niche with infrequent releases and with lower than expected returns (at the time) compared to other genres. BG was a remarkably good CRPG based on a popular license that didn't stink up the genre as Descent to Undermountain did later.

Bioware made a great contribution to CRPGs...until they started moving into the console space. The comment by Casey Hudson on leveraging the shooting mechanics to draw in the MW2 crowd is somewhat surprising because they shouldn't even be thinking about that game if they were developing an RPG. Funny, though, how he mentions MW2 and not Borderlands which actually shares more in common RPG-wise with the genre.

But their secret Imperial plans have succeeded beyond their wildest dreams with indoctrinating a new generation of console-RPG players to a specific style that will be accepted as the norm by many more while sounding like geniuses when quoting Campbellian structure. So I guess for them, the sex has been good.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Because it gives more connection to what PC does - it's active, unlike watching the character attack by himself.

Then just set it to pause every round. No matter what you are going to watch. Even in an action game you press the button and watch. FO was nothing but watching. As much as I like FO the worse combat encounter in that game sticks with me more than anything. It was when I had to guard Brahmin against a pack of Wolves. Halfway through the battle the Wolves flee and I spend almost a half an hour watching 2 or 3 dumb NPCs waste rounds shooting and mostly missing zigzagging Wolves that for whatever reason cant flee off of the screen. That’s what I call watching. Then the mission glitched and failed. The guy told me I let all of the Brahmin died. Luckily FO gives you the choice to wait until nightfall sneak into the lying cheats house and kill him. I also killed his Brahmin. Too bad we couldnt put them in bed with him.

Fallout's combat was full of fail, it lost a lot when they lost the GURPS licence. Also, yeah, exploits and glitches were pretty awful.
Still, I have found playing a fighter much more enjoyable in Fallout than in IE games (maybe with an exception of ID2).
Mainly, because my character was able to do interesting stuff like shooting people in the groin and shooting people in the eyes.
I want games where I have a PC and a party of cNPCs to allow me to enjoy combat from perspective of my character. Which means making my character do interesting things to opponents, while cNPCs aren't my mindless slaves.

It was scripted. Certain high lvl NPC would just initiate dialog so stealth didn’t work.

Not high level NPCs. NPCs that wanted to deliver their speech. The worst example of that design philosophy was going into the Gromnirs palace and getting forced into a cutscene where the PC actually intiated conversation.

It was scripted. Certain high lvl NPC would just initiate dialog so stealth didn’t work. I don’t remember if BG had stealth proof magic and wards but later IE did. So even at high lvls stealth was no panacea.

Which didn't make sense. Characters casting True Sight just because the script told them, didn't make sense.

I didn’t have much of an issue with daytime stealth. I saw it as a decent simulation of spying and subterfuge. Your lvl was too low to use it over much ground and you always wanted an escape path so you didn’t want to get too deep into enemy territory.

It's hiding in the shadows, not disguise. It can be used as soon as one leaves the enemy field of view. Which means repeated backstabings in a broad daylight.

To me there is no comparison. If I’m deving any combat I start with the tenets of Sun Tzu.

Win without fighting BG virtually eliminated random encounters, using weapon speed instead of initiatives boosted the efficiency of ranged weapons. With stealth, certain spells and ranged weapons you could avoid combat or defeat enemies without fighting them. The Gold Box games whisked you to battle world.

Avoid Strength Attack weakness. With BG you had the ability to enter and exit combat. If you were fighting a wizard that was surrounded by henchmen you could attack-- quickly kill henchmen and leave. You could attack from different angles. You could attack from behind the defense.

Know your enemy. That’s the value of stealth, invisibility, and in later games you had scrying spells. This added a whole layer of battle planning.

Deception. When you aren’t whisked into battle world you can do things like faint attacks, or attack or split your party. You can send a weak force of summoned creatures to the head then attack from behind. You can have an invisible mage cast charm person etc etc


Terrain. Again this was one of Tzu’s most important precepts and it’s practically eliminated when an RPG uses battle world.

Agreed.

 

[BlitzKitchen]

But their secret Imperial plans

About the future...

The future of humanity is very white. It's not like Bioware isn't trying. All other racial looks do get represented. But for some reason there's this general brown look. I mean, you can't tell if the person is supposed to be like Evo Morales or Grace Park, or like Hugo Chavez or Aishwarya Rai because there's only this one general brown look for asians, latinos... heck, even southern europeans. Because in real life their all the same mass of brown people, no? Unfortunate racist implications of the unreal engine I guess.

Player: "Oh hi, Michelle Rodriguez look alike."
NPC: "My name is Fuji Fukomora."

The reason for this could be that except for the main characters, other people aren't designed by hand. Only the main cast is designed by hand. But all the non-alien main cast is white. Only one main character is black. He's also the only black character in the game. The only one that speaks anyway.

Is this guy blind? Where the fuck are these "very white" people he's talking about? Bioware even stated their multikult agenda somewhere "FUTURE IS BROWN MIXED RACE R00FLES" I'm replaying ME1 right now: every where I turn the humans have these shallow, popping-out-of-their-skull, Asiatic/African hybrid eyes with dark brown skin. The reviewer thinks Kaiden and Ashley are white? Stop the lies, start the truths.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

But the future is going to be brown mixed race. At least, it's leading that way

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

Bioware made a great contribution to CRPGs...until they started moving into the console space. The comment by Casey Hudson on leveraging the shooting mechanics to draw in the MW2 crowd is somewhat surprising because they shouldn't even be thinking about that game if they were developing an RPG. Funny, though, how he mentions MW2 and not Borderlands which actually shares more in common RPG-wise with the genre.

Its amazing people dont understand this. They are comparing the game to the elite shooters because they want to make ME 2 an elite shooter. The RPG stuff was covered about as far as it will resonably be covered without removing level scaling, increasing party size, and un-unifying the inventory-- which I would love to see but I'm not expecting after DA. The game is already three times the RPG Borderlands is but it isnt half the shooter MW 2 is.

 

[Inanity]

You can tell that Bioware put alot of effort into the art and dialouge and trying to make sure people who played the first game felt some contiuation.

That said the game focuses around player response combat.

If i wanted to play Halo the RPG i could play HALO..at least the first person combat is better and more intuitive.

 

[Azarkon]

Which genres are still going strong? Let's look at the NPD numbers for 2009!

1. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 (Infinity Ward, Activision), Xbox 360
2. Wii Sports Resort (Nintendo), Wii
3. New Super Mario Bros. Wii (Nintendo), Wii
4. Wii Fit (Nintendo), Wii
5. Wii Fit Plus (Nintendo), Wii
6. Mario Kart Wii (Nintendo), Wii
7. Wii Play (Nintendo), Wii
8. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 (Infinity Ward, Activision), PlayStation 3
9. Halo 3: ODST (Bungie, Microsoft), Xbox 360
10. Pokemon Platinum Version (Nintendo), NDS

I am disappoint.

 

[Junior Boy]

Bioware is like Modest Mouse. They blew up in the last 5 or 6 years and now everyone has heard of them. But *we* liked them when they were cool. Call of Duty MW2 is fucking Nickelback.

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

Which genres are still going strong? Let's look at the NPD numbers for 2009!

1. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 (Infinity Ward, Activision), Xbox 360
2. Wii Sports Resort (Nintendo), Wii
3. New Super Mario Bros. Wii (Nintendo), Wii
4. Wii Fit (Nintendo), Wii
5. Wii Fit Plus (Nintendo), Wii
6. Mario Kart Wii (Nintendo), Wii
7. Wii Play (Nintendo), Wii
8. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 (Infinity Ward, Activision), PlayStation 3
9. Halo 3: ODST (Bungie, Microsoft), Xbox 360
10. Pokemon Platinum Version (Nintendo), NDS

I am disappoint.

Ewww well at least FO 3 would make the top ten if you combined platforms. BG 3 would probably do just as well.

 

[Andhaira]

Baldurs Gate single handidly revived the rpg genre.

 

[Longshanks]

No, they didn't save the genre. But take it if you want it. It's history.


Everyone's talking 'bout ME 2 these days:

Bioware slays the genre with certain death!

All hail the mighty conqueror :!:

 

[GarfunkeL]

BG had much better combat.

ha. ha! Ha! HA! HA!

 

[GarfunkeL]

Because it gives more connection to what PC does - it's active, unlike watching the character attack by himself.

Then just set it to pause every round.

Didn't matter, there was still often a lag between your click and the action - or the character decided it needed to move before casting - or line of sight was blocked which was not apparent to the player and the character, instead of moving sideways, walked into enemies arms...

It was when I had to guard Brahmin against a pack of Wolves. Halfway through the battle the Wolves flee and I spend almost a half an hour watching 2 or 3 dumb NPCs waste rounds shooting and mostly missing zigzagging Wolves that for whatever reason cant flee off of the screen.

That's a bug, not a feature. You cannot criticize a system as "badly designed" and then use a known bug, which was later fixed, as the evidence, dumb fuck.

It was scripted. Certain high lvl NPC would just initiate dialog so stealth didn’t work. I don’t remember if BG had stealth proof magic and wards but later IE did. So even at high lvls stealth was no panacea.

And that's cool? The enemy has no way of spotting your stealth, unless scipted? And on the other hand, you have no way of actually staying hidden if the devs want you to initiate a conversation? And you call that good design?

I didn’t have much of an issue with daytime stealth. I saw it as a decent simulation of spying and subterfuge. Your lvl was too low to use it over much ground and you always wanted an escape path so you didn’t want to get too deep into enemy territory.

'cause you're a dumbfuck and apparently didn't play BG much. It is very possible, around lvl 4-5, to 100% safely sneak across all the zones, no matter was it day or night.

To me there is no comparison. If I’m deving any combat I start with the tenets of Sun Tzu.

Win without fighting BG virtually eliminated random encounters, using weapon speed instead of initiatives boosted the efficiency of ranged weapons. With stealth, certain spells and ranged weapons you could avoid combat or defeat enemies without fighting them. The Gold Box games whisked you to battle world.

Haha no. You had random battles in the zones, you had random batles while traveling. Weapon speed only dictated which of the melee combatants struck first during that turn, which was meaningless in 95% of the game. You HAD to fight every plot related enemy to either A) switch plot-flags or B) get items. You try sneaking through Iron Throne headquarters or Candlekeep in Ch5 or either the bandit camp or the mines OR ANY FUCKING POINT IN THE FUCKING PLOT.

GB didn't whisk you into the "battle world", like JRPG - the battle was played out on the exact same map that you explored in first person. So you could utilize corridors, doorways, narrow positions, terrain features (trees/rocks) as much as you wanted/could.

Avoid Strength Attack weakness. With BG you had the ability to enter and exit combat. If you were fighting a wizard that was surrounded by henchmen you could attack-- quickly kill henchmen and leave. You could attack from different angles. You could attack from behind the defense.

WTF does that mean? That you could exploit the system and that is awesome? You could leave combat in GB-series too, just walk off the edge - IF YOU CAN. You could attack from different angles. You could attack from behind the defence. How did BG improve, except making it more prone to exploiting?

Know your enemy. That’s the value of stealth, invisibility, and in later games you had scrying spells. This added a whole layer of battle planning.

Now this is the thing that BG actually added. Too bad there were many spots where dialog was forced upon the player, though that happened in GB too.

Deception. When you aren’t whisked into battle world you can do things like faint attacks, or attack or split your party. You can send a weak force of summoned creatures to the head then attack from behind. You can have an invisible mage cast charm person etc etc

Eh, you could do that in GB too. Send one party member around, the enemy reacts, dividing their forces. You can have invisible party moving behind the enemy force, decimating their casters before they realize you are there. Nothing new in BG.

Terrain. Again this was one of Tzu’s most important precepts and it’s practically eliminated when an RPG uses battle world.

WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS BATTLE WORLD?! See above, dumb fuck.

BG clubs the Gold Box games with depth and strategy.

Oh, no. You got one thing over it but lose any edge with the stupidity of RTwP and pixel-based map. Turn-based combat in a square-based map is easily the more strategic version, if only for the ease of control and presentation of information it conveys.

also I dont know what PorkaMorka is talking about as a whole the Gold Box games were not tougher than BG. PoD surely was. It was the toughest RPG ever IMO, The Dark Queen of Krynn was and a couple battles in Azure Bonds and at least the last battle in Treasures was tougher than anything in BG but the rest of the games were right around or below BG’s difficulty. PoD, and DQoK were tough because they were cheap. You faced encounters that only a party of duel classed humans could hope to defeat.

Oh grow up you whiny bastard. Only Sarevok was "hard" in vanilla BG. Go play Curse of the Azure Bonds again and tell me how many times you reloaded a fight or brough a new PC into the party? And please, don't try to pass Sarevok as something else but a "cheap" encounter, albeit not nearly as epic as PoD.

 

[Arcanoix]

Over 10 years ago the genre was almost dead, or so they say, but then 2 guys came to the rescue.

Those schmucks don't look like the guys who designed Lands of Lore : Guardians of Destiny nor do I see their names in the credits for Quest for Glory V : Dragon Fire. Although flawed, these two games left an amazing foundation in terms of design, gameplay, c&c, etc. Then came "bloom", "hdr", and games that required 1,000-watt power supplies. Fuck this genre wasn't saved from a swift death - it was raped, beaten, and has slowly been lynched and raped moreso over the last decade.

 

[Volourn]

"Oh grow up you whiny bastard. Only Sarevok was "hard" in vanilla BG. Go play Curse of the Azure Bonds again and tell me how many times you reloaded a fight or brough a new PC into the party? And please, don't try to pass Sarevok as something else but a "cheap" encounter, albeit not nearly as epic as PoD."

Are these the same GB games that 10 or udners could beat easily? R00flkes! Nah. GB games weren't that hard if dumb kiddies could beat them.

 

[AlaCarcuss]

Actually I was screwing your mom for 60 minutes.

You dug her out? :shock:

nasty.

Oh EV you crack me up. Best comeback evar!