Beamdog working on a new D&D CRPG (cancelled)

[santino27]

Why would anyone do that to Mazzy?

Did you read the post?

I recall reading that the Baldur's Gate 2 portrait artist was kind of derpy (BELTS AND EARRINGS EVERYWHERE), not so surprising that his WIP versions were prosperous.

I did, yes. There were original shitty WIP black and white concept pics, and then the community decided in their infinite wisdom to make them full day-glow, anime specials.

 

[Transfiguring Roar]

This shit id totally fuck up!

 

[LESS T_T]

Daivd Gaider updated his blog: https://medium.com/@davidgaider/learning-to-love-the-pain-1a95cd6d4b47

He talks about how game writers, especially new writers to "make the most of job" they're assigned but not necessarily excited about. With the example of how he should make 'evil horde' in Dragon Age setting by Lead Designer James Ohlen's demand.

Learning to Love the Pain

A Bit of Background

I remember back in the early days of working on “Dragon Age: Origins” (before that was even its title) when I was asked to make the new game’s setting. It’s not the sort of task one gets assigned very often, and in this case it didn’t come with a lot of direction beyond ‘make something fantasy-ish…but your version of fantasy’. Lead Designer James Ohlen and I had chatted about some of the possibilities, after which I went off and made a world in the time-honored fashion of any nerd who grew up playing D&D: with a bunch of crudely-drawn maps on napkins and reams of text filled with enough twee-sounding proper nouns to make your head spin.

I’d really warmed up to the task, after some initial trepidation. This was going to be my subversion of the fantasy genre, a world that was in the aftermath of its ‘Lord of the Rings’ era where dragons were dead and magic was waning. I could take all the tropes I disliked about fantasy as a genre and turn them on their head, say something about the genre itself! I was psyched.

James was less psyched, as it turned out. “Where’s the magic?” he asked, after which I quickly learned the difference between creating a setting that made for interesting reading on the page and one that made for something you could build an interesting game around. I grudgingly began to iterate based on his feedback, inching towards the version of the Dragon Age setting fans are familiar with today…but there was one change he wanted which didn’t sit very well with me: he wanted an “evil horde”, some ubiquitous enemy like the standard fantasy orcs which the player wouldn’t feel bad about killing. Dragon Age fans will recognize this role as what eventually became the darkspawn — but, back then, they simply didn’t exist. There was no such thing in the world I’d created.

I’ll admit: I balked. It ran smack against the very theme I’d tried to establish. I didn’t want to figure out how to do it, I just didn’t want to do it. I made arguments, I whined, I even made a couple of proposals which were so obviously stupid I was inwardly hoping they’d illustrate why the entire idea was bad. You know, the sort of things which undoubtedly made James question both my professionalism and my competence, and which he rightfully dismissed out of hand.

So I tried. I sat down and, rather than imagining how adding orcs was the worst decision in all of human history, I instead tried to figure out if there was a version of orcs that…maybe I wouldn’t mind so much. Eventually I thought of an idea where these weren’t sentient monsters so much as a plague, a reoccurring event that threatened the world on an irregular basis in the same manner the Thread threatened Anne McCaffrey’s Pern (my nerd roots are showing, pardon me). That…that wouldn’t be so bad, would it? In fact, I could think of several spin-offs that would be kind of interesting for the setting’s history, a sort of periodic “purge” which would make for more interesting reading than a litany of “king X did Y” entries.

So I asked James: would it be okay if, instead of orcs, I did this “living plague” idea I was more excited about? I don’t remember his actual response, but it boiled down to “yes, I am indeed okay with you doing an implementation you will make interesting rather than the one you would make boring and crappy.”

I was startled, but it seemed obvious in retrospect. Do my job well rather than do my job poorly? That’s what you want from me? In my defense, I was pretty new at the whole Lead Writer gig.


The Lesson Learned

What lesson did I learn from that? It’s one that I continued to learn throughout my career as a writer and narrative designer, which is that — despite this being a creative position — you don’t always get your druthers. You won’t always be handed choices you personally would have opted for, or be given assignments you find inspiring or even all that interesting.

I’m sure this is something writers in almost any field where collaboration is required would recognize, though it’s doubly important in gaming where the limitations come at you from numerous directions. Not only will you have creative directives from your boss (or your boss’s boss), there are technical limitations applied by the game itself. There are requirements demanded by the fact this is a game and not just a story, one which must include gameplay and player agency. Many of these will appear after you’ve already done a bunch of work creating your perfect narrative, in fact. A full 75% of a game writer’s job is hacking and suturing their own story to solve problems which have nothing to do with narrative quality, to make the best of issues even when the result is less than ideal. Even when it makes you want to flip tables in rage and declare the entire project a lost cause. You get over it and figure out the best way to proceed because the rest of the team desperately needs you to. You have your part to play, just like they do.

This applies to the individual game writer in a lot of ways, even if they’re further down the chain of command — indeed, perhaps especially so. A new writer is likely to receive tasks nobody else wants to do, or have parts of the story assigned to them they had no hand in creating. Ideally one gets to form content right from the get-go, but things are rarely ideal. Often you work with the hand you’re dealt, and the point of you being a professional writer as opposed to an amateur (or someone on the Internet who looks at the finished product and opines how they would have done better — I, too, wish I could make all my decisions based on knowledge of how they’d turn out in the end, that would be fantastic) is figuring out how to be creative on demand.

Is this a long-winded, writerly version of “when given lemons, make lemonade”? Perhaps, but allow me to impart some of the things I often tell new writers I’ve hired on:

• Find a way to make the task your own. Figure out how much leeway you have to change things and make the tweaks — even if they’re small ones — which will turn it into something you love. Maybe a character becomes a type you’ve always wanted to write, maybe it’s a change to the theme, or a scene is inserted which makes it more interesting.
• From my perspective as the boss, I want my writers to figure out how to get excited about their task. I don’t want them to wait for me to get them excited. If they come to me with proposed changes that will make their task more interesting for them, I’m always willing to let them do it so long as the requirements of that task (the things which can’t change) are met. It is always a challenge to get new writers to the point where they feel brave enough to do this, however. Most will take a task they don’t understand or don’t like and do it exactly as offered, without question, ending in a mediocre result because they think that’s what I want. It’s not. I don’t want strict obedience, I want good work.
• Sure, not every boss is like me, and you’ll find some are micro-managers who want control over every minute aspect of the work. That might mean your leeway to make changes is less, but shouldn’t stop you from finding ways to express yourself. Play with the cadence of the dialogue, the language, make the writing itself the thing in which you find joy.
• Can it be hard sometimes? Yes, absolutely. The point is to not spend all your time trying to figure out how to get around your limitations. Focus on what you love rather than what you don’t, or you will spend more time whining than actually writing. If you want to really annoy your lead, spend as much time as possible telling them how you can’t do the task you’re assigned. It’s an excellent way to get less of those tasks in the future.

Perhaps all of this seems really obvious to folks out there…but a big part of me doubts that. So many people seem to assume that a creative job on a game means it is one of creative control, that the narrative in the end product is that way because you as the creative person deemed it must be so, when the reality is that your job is one of creative management. You take a vision and you nurture it through all the hurdles of game development. You act as the champion for the narrative, one it sorely needs because everyone else on the team is focused on their own areas, and each one of their solutions is likely to drop yet another problem in their lap.

But you work with it, because — at the end of the day — a good writer or narrative designer separates themselves from the rest because they managed to keep alive something creative and good in the game even after all the bruising it receives. Have I always been successful at that, personally? Not always, but I’ve succeeded often enough to know a good end result is worth the challenge.

 

[santino27]

I thought his darkspawn concept sucked. And most everyone just called them orcs anyway.

Edit: Also, if he'd been hired by Beamdog earlier, he might have shared this lesson with Amber before she decided to go full revisionist character writer on everything.

 

[Durian Eater]

There's a reason why the Darkspawn were almost completely ignored after the first game, and it wasn't because they were remotely interesting. (And yeah, I know the article is largely pinning this on Ohlen, and that Gaider's "subversion of the fantasy genre" idea was undoubtedly far more interesting.)

"Let's make the primary antagonist Unreasoning Monsters That Exist Only To Be Killed" is the royal road to a shit story (at least outside of pulp horror). Of the two types of antagonists Bioware was capable of writing, UMTEOTBK are even worse than Guy Corrupted By Power. At least Guy usually has a motivation, even if it's always shit like revenge or more power/immortality/godhood.

That said, while Gaider's writing sucks, he was the most talented member of Bioware's B-team, so a two-bit studio that's produced some truly awful original writing is lucky to have him.

 

[laclongquan]

Why not get an Cursed-to-be-Hungry Orcs. They will eat the world if left alone. You dont have anyway at all to cure them (materialization of hunger impulse or the like). You can only kill them and end their suffering or predation.
Real world example is the locust. You will flamethrower them down by millions with not a shred of mercy.

Or hell, Horny-and-Fertile Orc who will impregnant females and birth ORCs instead of halfs. Like a locust in the making. Kill Them All!

Lots of other idea. Living plague is bleh.

 

[Sizzle]

"And ran he did."

 

[pippin]

walking cowboy style?

 

[Azarkon]

Daivd Gaider updated his blog: https://medium.com/@davidgaider/learning-to-love-the-pain-1a95cd6d4b47

He talks about how game writers, especially new writers to "make the most of job" they're assigned but not necessarily excited about. With the example of how he should make 'evil horde' in Dragon Age setting by Lead Designer James Ohlen's demand.

Gaider was the lead writer on Dragon Age, yet complains he had no creative control over the setting, and had to consult James Ohlen over every decision? Sounds like a pretty terrible work process. Lead designers should be responsible for the main concept behind the game, yet it sounds as though all Ohlen had was fantasy world with magic and orcs.

 

[Harry Easter]

Daivd Gaider updated his blog: https://medium.com/@davidgaider/learning-to-love-the-pain-1a95cd6d4b47

He talks about how game writers, especially new writers to "make the most of job" they're assigned but not necessarily excited about. With the example of how he should make 'evil horde' in Dragon Age setting by Lead Designer James Ohlen's demand.

Gaider was the lead writer on Dragon Age, yet complains he had no creative control over the setting, and had to consult James Ohlen over every decision? Sounds like a pretty terrible work process. Lead designers should be responsible for the main concept behind the game, yet it sounds as though all Ohlen had was fantasy world with magic and orcs.

It does sound terrible, but the idea could have still worked, if DA:O had some kind urgency.

Question is: can he now act more freely? If yes, do we get a good narrative? I am not sure. The man can write Characters (at least Characters you remember ... god, I still hate Fenris with a vengeance), but I always asked myself, if it wasn't Jennifer Hepler, who hold the narrative in DA 2 together. I read a comic by Gaider and it was so average, I was bored from the start. But maybe the rest of the staff can balance it out.

As for setting, I still of a game around Luskan (Sword Coast Legends doesn't count), with connection to the snowy north. Pirates, Yetis, Giants and evil mages and maybe a little trip to somewhere else via pirateship. Maybe PoE2 can fill the gap until then^^.

A game completely in the Underdark would also be very cool. There is enough monsters down there, that nobody will ever get bored.

And I wouldn't complain about an original setting with the same creatures (let's be honest they are the most important part, besides the combat mechanics), just to see, what they would do, if they have no one to hold them back.

 

[abnaxus]

 

[Iznaliu]

Why didn't InXile photoshop the face onto the fourth woman?

 

[Heretic]

3 out of 4 are overweight.

 

[Lacrymas]

...who make Beamdog games great. Yeah, you might want to rethink that statement. I might have said that the C&C in Dorn's quest isn't bad, but don't push it.

 

[santino27]

3 out of 4 are overweight.

Welcome to the software industry. It's not just the women.

 

[Bohrain]

Or hell, Horny-and-Fertile Orc who will impregnant females and birth ORCs instead of halfs. Like a locust in the making. Kill Them All!

Behold, this is the next level!

 

[Bohrain]

That being said, I think it tells a lot about Gaider's ability as a writer that when he is given a chance to do a new setting it's just generic D&D clone that "subverts the tropes" on a very shallow level.
Is it really that hard to do something like imagining some series of alternate historical events and adding some fantasy twist to make it more marketable? Like what if Cesare Borgia stayed healthy after the death of his papal papa, continued his conquest and one of the Italian city states was occupied by a fantasy race with culture and technology that awfully resembles Ming China?

 

[Spectacle]

That being said, I think it tells a lot about Gaider's ability as a writer that when he is given a chance to do a new setting it's just generic D&D clone that "subverts the tropes" on a very shallow level.
Is it really that hard to do something like imagining some series of alternate historical events and adding some fantasy twist to make it more marketable? Like what if Cesare Borgia stayed healthy after the death of his papal papa, continued his conquest and one of the Italian city states was occupied by a fantasy race with culture and technology that awfully resembles Ming China?

Do you really think marketing would give a writer free reign?

 

[Lacrymas]

It's debatable whether he wants to do generic fantasy settings or it's being forced from the outside somewhere.

 

[Bohrain]

That being said, I think it tells a lot about Gaider's ability as a writer that when he is given a chance to do a new setting it's just generic D&D clone that "subverts the tropes" on a very shallow level.
Is it really that hard to do something like imagining some series of alternate historical events and adding some fantasy twist to make it more marketable? Like what if Cesare Borgia stayed healthy after the death of his papal papa, continued his conquest and one of the Italian city states was occupied by a fantasy race with culture and technology that awfully resembles Ming China?

Do you really think marketing would give a writer free reign?

Not completely of course. But to me it seemed like Gaider didn't even attempt to be novel in any shape or form.

 

[hexer]

They're working on BG3 in DnD Next?

 

[Lhynn]

They're working on BG3 in DnD Next?

God no.
Probably some winter wolves tier crap, but isometric.
What i am wondering if these people even know how to make anything outside of IE modding.

 

[ArchAngel]

They're working on BG3 in DnD Next?

We don't know at this point. They got more than one project in the works. One of these is using a 3d engine. Hopefully one is a D&D game. At least they proved they can make good and fun encounters with SoD even if they are not great with story. Hopefully Gaider helps with story part, he only needs to make it BG2 level story, nobody expects PST out of their classic D&D cRPG.

 

[Lilura]

At least they proved they can make good and fun encounters with SoD

Let's hope aVENGER is in charge of both encounter design and itemization drafting. Guy is good at it.

 

[ArchAngel]

I found this https://www.beamdog.com/jobs/8

Lead Artist

If you work at Beamdog, you can have the cubicle next to me! It's full of candy wrappers, though. I'm so sorry.

Job Type: Full-time permanent

Beamdog, the game developers behind Baldur’s Gate: Enhanced Edition, Baldur’s Gate II: Enhanced Edition, Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition, and the Baldur’s Gate: Siege of Dragonspear expansion pack are looking for a Lead Artist to join their creative team.
Responsibilities

The Lead Artist is responsible for leading and managing a team of up to 10 artists, which includes the assigning and tracking of tasks, the providing of feedback and direction, and the encouragement of skill development. They are also responsible for establishing, refining, and communicating the artistic vision of their projects, in collaboration with the rest of the development team, and ensuring a high level of artistic quality and consistency from their artists all the way from initial project conception through to release and beyond.

- Clearly communicate that artistic vision to the rest of the project team
- Manage all documentation for the art team, in particular the style guides
- Review work produced by the art team and be aware of their day-to- day schedule as determined by the Art Coordinator
- Review art produced by outsourced partners, to keep quality consistent with the rest of the project
- Understand the technical art requirements of Beamdog’s projects, and ensure thoserequirements are being met
- Work closely with 3D modeling teams to ensure artistic vision translates into in-game content

Qualifications

- Strong leadership and communication skills
- The ability to personally participate in the creation of quality art content, as the candidate will not only be leading fellow artists on the project, they will also be producing it
- Knowledge of game development art processes, from pre-production to post-release, with preference given to a candidate credited on at least one released title
- A preference is given to candidates familiar with Unreal Engine 4 and Adobe Creative Suite.
- Familiarity with ConceptShare and JIRA is a definite bonus
- You must be authorized to legally work in Canada, and willing to work locally in Edmonton, Alberta (relocating, if necessary)
- A related University or College degree is also preferred but not required

How to Apply

Email a portfolio of artwork showcasing your ability (3D content is preferable), your c.v., and cover letter to todd@beamdog.com

Up to 10 artists.. how big is their team now? This 3d game they are making, someone gave them a lot of money for it.