Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 RELEASE THREAD

[Fedora Master]

Just to be clear, that's not just some "fake poster fanart".
Someone is actually organizing a "BG3-themed burlesque" and the only comments you are allowed to make about it is "stunning, brave and beautiful".

People apparently enjoy this trash.

Please don't call them people.

 

[I eat frozen vegetables]

They seriously gave the bear sex game a Hugo award, as if awards are nothing but giant circlejerks already due to the Sad Puppies debacle.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

You guys were not playing honor mode I reckon. You should try it, it does improve the game a lot.

I don't dispute that.
I was just mentioning that one fight was harder than the rest. Not really a complaint since I don't spend too much time on optimum approach and whatever.

 

[Fedora Master]

They seriously gave the bear sex game a Hugo award, as if awards are nothing but giant circlejerks already due to the Sad Puppies debacle.

Receiving a Hugo Award is like getting a free membership at the gay club.
Meaning Swen must be very happy right now.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

You guys were not playing honor mode I reckon. You should try it, it does improve the game a lot.

I died a lot too, due to bad rolls or just by making mistakes. I can never get used to the fact that there's only 1 concentration slot - it's shit & decline. Anyway, I can't beat this game in honor mode, I'll die a couple hours in.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Anyway, I can't beat this game in honor mode, I'll die a couple hours in.

Planning on giving it a go once the extra tactics get uncoupled from the single save.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

I can never get used to the fact that there's only 1 concentration slot - it's shit & decline.

it's literally one of the best ideas they introduced in the entire 5th edition, as it implicitly made the plague of the "pre-buffing" phase mostly redundant.

If anything I'd be open to debate that it's occasionally put as a pre-requirement on spells that shouldn't really need it, so it can limit your options.

Anyway, I can't beat this game in honor mode, I'll die a couple hours in.

I thought we were all talking about Honor Mode here, otherwise any debate on the top difficulty becomes basically pointless.

Anyway, if you die in Honor mode you CAN continue your playthrough from a previous checkpoint (still on a single saveslot). You just miss out the achievement for its completion.

 

[Fedora Master]

Ah yes, reducing careful preparation with "Pick what's obviously the best option at all times always"

 

[Cael]

Take no risks, do not innovate, just do the one thing that is safest.
- the computer game ironman motto

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Ah yes, reducing careful preparation with "Pick what's obviously the best option at all times always"

"Careful preparation" as "resting just on the doorstep of the battle and then blowing your load of spellslots and casting literally every fucking buff available on the entire party" is not exactly something that I'm going to mourn.

And there are plenty of cases where “the obvious best option” happens to be something else, rather than “always the same thing”.

 

[MjKorz]

it's literally one of the best ideas they introduced in the entire 5th edition, as it implicitly made the plague of the "pre-buffing" phase mostly redundant.

It's a dogshit idea that massively handicaps spellcasting synergy and makes niche spells even less useful, because now they have to constantly compete for that concentration with far more powerful/useful spells. Without concentration, you'd have cast those less useful spells after you cast the more useful ones, now you just ignore their existence.

Elimination of pre-buffing has already been solved in Pillars - you just prohibit the casting of combat buffs outside of combat. Concentration introduces way more problems than it solves.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

It's a dogshit idea that massively handicaps spellcasting synergy and makes niche spells even less useful

Ah, yes, because spellcasting in D&D is obviously WEAK and in dire need of a buffing.

because now they have to constantly compete for that concentration with far more powerful/useful spells.

This is LITERALLY addressed on the concession I made in this sentence:

"If anything I'd be open to debate that it's occasionally put as a pre-requirement on spells that shouldn't really need it, so it can limit your options."

Which in the end makes it a matter of fine tuning rather than a problem with the feature in its entirety.

 

[Fedora Master]

"Careful preparation" as "resting just on the doorstep of the battle

Then make the area rest restricted. This isn't an issue of buffing.

 

[MjKorz]

Ah, yes, because spellcasting in D&D is obviously WEAK and in dire need of a buffing.

Spellcasting power can be nerfed by nerfing the spells themselves. Concentration does something far different: it handicaps spellcasting synergy.

Take the most basic example: a conjurer wizard who can cast web and cloudkill. You AoE web your targets then gas them with cloudkill while they're immobilized. You combine separate effects of two spells to create synergy and produce a more powerful resultant effect, providing the player with the opportunity to creatively adapt to tactical scenarios and increasing the tactical depth of the game. What happens when you introduce concentration? You massively handicap this creative player adaptation to tactical challenges, because now you suddenly need two casters to combine concentration spell effects and few people are going to run two wizards in a party.

The problem with concentration is not that it nerfs spellcasting, but the fact that it massively reduces the opportunities for spell interaction, simplifying the entire spellcasting aspect of the game.

That's one problem. The other problem can be described like this: assume you have two tiers of spells - tier 1 with the most useful spells and tier 2 with less useful spells. Without concentration, you'd naturally cast the most useful spells first and then consider whether you need to cast the less useful spells on top. With concentration, you suddenly cannot cast tier 2 spells on top of tier 1 spells and the result is such that tier 2 spells will never get cast or will be cast in extremely limited niche scenarios.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

That's one problem. The other problem can be described like this: assume you have two tiers of spells - tier 1 with the most useful spells and tier 2 with less useful spells. Without concentration, you'd naturally cast the most useful spells first and then consider whether you need to cast the less useful spells on top. With concentration, you suddenly cannot cast tier 2 spells on top of tier 1 spells and the result is such that tier 2 spells will never get cast or will be cast in extremely limited niche scenarios.

Because the point, BY DESIGN, is precisely that you are supposed to pick the ONE concentration spell that you consider situationally more useful and then everything else you cast (with the same character) should be your non-concentration ones.

If you are a cleric, for instance, you'll probably make your initial choice between bless, spirit guardian or Hold person (depending on what spell slots are unspent at that point and what you are facing) and then you are left with guiding bolt, spiritual weapon and whatever else your specific vocation offers.

You are talking as if this was an unintended consequence, when the goal is SPECIFICALLY to not make some synergies too trivially easy to pull off and pile on top of each other.
Sure, you can use Web and Cloudkill together at the price of having two different casters occupying their concentration slot for it, otherwise you'll be content to pick the one you prefer and then use every other spell that doesn't ask for concentration as a requirement.

We could argue that some spells asking for it are highly questionable. (i.e. Hunter mark, which is so core to a hunter? True strike, that already borders on useless even without it? Etc) but as a general design principle it's absolutely solid.

 

[MjKorz]

the goal is SPECIFICALLY to not make some synergies too trivially easy to pull off

Then it's a shit goal. Reducing opportunities for spell interaction simplifies the spellcasting system. Let the players cook and creatively adapt to tactical encounters, balance the individual spells themselves.

but as a general design principle it's absolutely solid

It is a design principle that leads to the simplification of the system and results in reduction of tactical depth by hindering the ways you can adapt tactically. I disagree with the very principle of this design choice.

 

[Fedora Master]

Remember when Haste would actually age your character by a few years?
It's almost as if spells can have pros and cons to them by themselves.

 

[Cael]

Remember when Haste would actually age your character by a few years?
It's almost as if spells can have pros and cons to them by themselves.

One year.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Remember when Haste would actually age your character by a few years?
It's almost as if spells can have pros and cons to them by themselves.

Yeah, that was the second edition and it never actually applied to any videogame that implemented it, anyway.

 

[Cael]

Remember when Haste would actually age your character by a few years?
It's almost as if spells can have pros and cons to them by themselves.

Yeah, that was the second edition and it never actually applied to any videogame that implemented it, anyway.

Gold Box had it, too. I have yet to hear of anyone actually dying of old age in a GB game, though...

 

[Fedora Master]

Remember when Haste would actually age your character by a few years?
It's almost as if spells can have pros and cons to them by themselves.

Yeah, that was the second edition and it never actually applied to any videogame that implemented it, anyway.

Gold Box had it, too. I have yet to hear of anyone actually dying of old age in a GB game, though...

Not my fault games can't use the rules as written.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

Anyway, I can't beat this game in honor mode, I'll die a couple hours in.

Planning on giving it a go once the extra tactics get uncoupled from the single save.

I'm interested too. Larian promised to do it, or you're hoping for a mod?

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

I'm interested too. Larian promised to do it, or you're hoping for a mod?

All the "difficulty enhancement" that are currently available only in Honor mode (Legendary actions and so on) are supposed to become selectable options in "Custom mode" when Patch 7 drops.
Which should be in September.

That should be also when "official mod support" is introduced, but the exact benefits of it are still unclear, in the end.

 

[Barbarian]

That's one problem. The other problem can be described like this: assume you have two tiers of spells - tier 1 with the most useful spells and tier 2 with less useful spells. Without concentration, you'd naturally cast the most useful spells first and then consider whether you need to cast the less useful spells on top. With concentration, you suddenly cannot cast tier 2 spells on top of tier 1 spells and the result is such that tier 2 spells will never get cast or will be cast in extremely limited niche scenarios.

Because the point, BY DESIGN, is precisely that you are supposed to pick the ONE concentration spell that you consider situationally more useful and then everything else you cast (with the same character) should be your non-concentration ones.

If you are a cleric, for instance, you'll probably make your initial choice between bless, spirit guardian or Hold person (depending on what spell slots are unspent at that point and what you are facing) and then you are left with guiding bolt, spiritual weapon and whatever else your specific vocation offers.

You are talking as if this was an unintended consequence, when the goal is SPECIFICALLY to not make some synergies too trivially easy to pull off and pile on top of each other.
Sure, you can use Web and Cloudkill together at the price of having two different casters occupying their concentration slot for it, otherwise you'll be content to pick the one you prefer and then use every other spell that doesn't ask for concentration as a requirement.

We could argue that some spells asking for it are highly questionable. (i.e. Hunter mark, which is so core to a hunter? True strike, that already borders on useless even without it? Etc) but as a general design principle it's absolutely solid.

That is exactly it. 5e actually improved this by a lot.

Just think of the owlcuck games for instance(which are based in "not d&d 3.5" pathfinder). In higher difficulties you would spend tedious minutes applying buffs to the whole party. Hardly ever with any strategy or planning involved - just "more buffs better buffs" and they pretty much included these buffs in the balancing for higher difficulties.

Compared to 5e where the concentration limitation actually makes you have to choose - e.g: haste vs hold person vs fire wall - depending on the situation.

Only buffs you will regularly use in this game is one elixir for each character(you are limited to one elixir effect per effect) and either aid or hero's feast. Also mage armor and mirror image on some characters. And that is great. Most of the strategy and preparation is related to positioning, gear and spell book, not mindlessly clicking 2 dozen buffs in your spellbook as in cuckmaker and wotr. The original baldurs gate games didn't fare too well in this department either.

 

[chaplain_crabtree]

On the subject of abuse, I don't know if I should even say that I beat the game.

For most of the tough fights I did this:
- Darkness on my own party, so the AI can't target us, especially the archers
- When it's my turn: step out, throw a spell / shoot an arrow, step back in

It became boring quickly, too.

Sounds boring not just because it's easy but because it's actively tedious to put in practice.
Frankly you have mostly yourself to blame here.

This reminds me of a friend that when The Witcher 3 launched complained that combat was "too easy to exploit", because he could sit on a boulder and shot the crossbow for 20 minutes at wolves.
I mean, yes, you can. And you are also a bona fide retarded if you do, because there are way simpler and more engaging ways to deal with them.

That said, I do think a few more enemies in BG3 should be able to benefit from the ability to see through darkness.
Also, maybe I'm remembering things wrong but in theory in the core ruleset you are supposed to have a penalty to targeting enemies in magical darkness... not to be unable to do it at all.

I believe you can still melee enemies in magical darkness with a penalty.