Eternity Avowed - Obsidian's first person action-RPG in the Pillars of Eternity setting

[Roguey]

Not being able to kill NPCs is by far the worst thing when it comes to the RP.

You can't kill NPCs. Any form of roleplay is gone already.

There are loads of RPGs where you can't kill random NPCs: nwn and nwn 2 and all their expansions, kotor 1 and 2, Mass Effect trilogy, all the Dragon Age games, Divinity 2, The Witcher games (I recall you can kill guards in 2 where the consequence is either paying a fine or getting insta-killed), the Pathfinders, Greedfall, Disco Elysium. You can try to kill randos in KCD but they just come back like nothing. It's nice to have, but not necessary.

Ultima V had NPC schedules back in the 80s, solo devs were coding whole games in assembly (Rollercoaster Tycoon) in the 90s.

What Obsidian game has ever had NPC schedules? New Vegas, which they inherited from Bethesda. Seems odd to think of this as a "gaming has fallen" thing when they've never done it in their 20 year history. Never been a priority of theirs, Bioware's either.

It might have been something they planned back when this was Chris Parker's Skyrim, but that was too hard, so we got this instead, Greedfall: Enhanced Edition.

@Roguey you cuck

That's a preview from four months ago. What does it look like now?

 

[La vie sexuelle]

There's nothing new about that both being too backward, or just being slightly ahead of your time, can sink you. But I find your convoluted rationalisation about Veilguard and Trump being heralds of our times quite ridiculous. There's nothing progressive about Veilguard. It's just the product of a particular writer's mindset, one that didn't gel with most people. Nothing else. No big conspiracy of "The Libs" soon taking over the world. Just Trick Weekes being... himself.

I'm also not being intimidated by Trump and his boyz trying to create a particular herd mindset through social media about what's good, and what's distasteful.

I'll buy Avowed full price regardless of what the online hivemind thinks. I trust Obsidian, they have an excellent track record, I want that game. There's nothing more to it.

Meanwhile, you can waste your time maybe writing a 100 page treatise about the deeper meaning of "barvs" and discuss it with your perpetually offended friends.

Trump's election sealed a certain social movement. And by the word "movement" I mean the widely shared feeling that leftist ideology is exerting enormous pressure on social life. The entire beginning of Trump's candidacy is no longer about pseudo-Reaganism, but about showing "look, I've exceeded your expectations!" Wide, although not full, acceptance of actions such as the exclusion of trans people from women's sports shows not only the need for such figures, but also that they can act. Not everyone likes it, etc., but for now we are moving away from woke. I don't know for how long, but today - yes.


So yes, games and the discussion around them show what is happening in the world.

I don't think this is true, not that I disagree people inform each other on consensus of how to feel about a game (or any piece of media) but more that you are thinking that Veilguard (and now Avowed?) overshoot past the level of acceptable progressiveness or wokeness. I don't think that's true because these things get retroactively justified. Problem with Veilguard is that it's a game that nobody is defending because it feels like a product that is meant to a checklist, with bland writing that fails even to incite controversy and in gameplay following a trend that bioware set 15 years ago making each dragon age more action-oriented than last one which feels out of touch at a time where BG3 is a massive success being more of a traditional pen and paper turn-based RPG and general increased interest in RPG mechanics. It's also not particularly decent with its combat, exploration or anything else. Bioware still acts like it is 2005 and consoles are killing PC gaming and non-action games. Meanwhile BG3 and now seemingly KCD2 gets off the hook because they don't have to prove themselves on the culture war because they are good at what they do as games and playing them feels good in moment to moment approach. Mind you before BG3's release and massive critical acclaim a lot of similar culture war stuff was leveled against it as well and KCD2 also just has straight up ahistorical nonsense Malian black guy in Kingdom of Bohemia for some reason talking about Ottoman Empire or whatever (and not actually mentioning historical stuff that Czech soldiers and mercenaries were involved in like war against Ottomans in 1396)

In case of Avowed, culture war stuff aside, the game looks like it has genuinely enjoyable combat and exploration but it gets conflated with Veilguard and its criticisms instead because it is riding off the coat tails of its failure. People treat this as playoffs of Veilguard in the culture war and it is obviously not a massive breakthrough of a game like BG3 was else meticulously crafted at what it does like KCD2 so it starts with skepticism and doubt at square one. It just looks like a smaller game attempting something more limited in scope and playing off things like Dark Messiah and not the latest front in culture war. You can even see this when you compare the reviews to this as opposed to ones Veilguard got, which were great across the board because it's Bioware and dragon age. I actually think at least from what I have seen though I haven't yet played it myself that this game is not at all like either Veilguard or Andromeda, as it is neither a flagship game that has massive cost that bombs and falls flat with cringy writing nor technically bad in any way as most people who play it and even critics seem to acknowledge its combat and exploration is fun.

I had a good feeling about this game since I saw most of the recent content since two months ago and it might sell badly still but considering Outer Worlds got a sequel on its mediocre sales and lukewarm reception then this one might be considered to have done well on surprisingly small amount of sales too since it is simply not a massive flagship title nor really a technical failure the way others are, just sort of a collateral to Veilguard.

'm not sure I understand you correctly, but you're arguing that the quality of the game itself is independent of its status in the culture war? If so, I cannot agree. Like it or not, the culture war is a war over the shape of a broad social consensus, or perhaps rather that the presence of the front line is an ersatz of the consensus itself. In that case, games are hostages to this fight, and the interpretation of their non-political/non-politicizable elements depends on the broader context anyway.
In other words, consensus about a specific game is preceded by consensus about similar, previous games, and then it takes effect automatically and lives until someone is interested in the game, always depending on the external situation. I don't know anything about KC2 except that its status is strongly dependent on the previous game and yet different from what most RPGs look like. In fact, it even proves what I wrote earlier, that in 2015 it was possible to create a game with white people and without female knights, and now not, but because Hans doesn't barve for pronouns, many people see this game as "based".

I'm afraid to think what it will look like in KC3, when they introduce transsexuals and same-sex marriages in the 15th century Czech Republic. Then they will also be based, because they don't have custom neovaginas, a mandatory minute of silence for an hour of gameplay to honor homosexual suicides and no hererosexual characters?

 

[GentlemanCthulhu]

There are loads of RPGs where you can't kill random NPCs

Yes but it's a problem in Avowed, when you put the fact that you can't do that next to every other thing that you can't do. Obsidian is the lil studio who couldn't. They literally throw up their arms as soon as they face implementation challenges nowadays, as admitted by both Sawyer and Cain.

 

[Roguey]

They literally throw up their arms as soon as they face implementation challenges nowadays, as admitted by both Sawyer and Cain.

Obsidian spent two years trying to make Skyrim happen when they should have ended that excursion much sooner.

 

[Morgoth]

Trump's election sealed a certain social movement. And by the word "movement" I mean the widely shared feeling that leftist ideology is exerting enormous pressure on social life. The entire beginning of Trump's candidacy is no longer about pseudo-Reaganism, but about showing "look, I've exceeded your expectations!" Wide, although not full, acceptance of actions such as the exclusion of trans people from women's sports shows not only the need for such figures, but also that they can act. Not everyone likes it, etc., but for now we are moving away from woke. I don't know for how long, but today - yes.


So yes, games and the discussion around them show what is happening in the world.

The only people capable of exterting enormous pressure on social life are billionaires - they then chose leftists as their scapegoats to keep you distracted and disempowered.

Oh and I believe you that Trump can act, just in a really bad way. Looking at his models, such as Hungary or Russia, you can clearly see where the journey will end. Have fun with that.

 

[GentlemanCthulhu]

They literally throw up their arms as soon as they face implementation challenges nowadays, as admitted by both Sawyer and Cain.

Obsidian spent two years trying to make Skyrim happen when they should have ended that excursion much sooner.

btw sawyer has an entire talk about the importance of UCD but i couldn't find it on YT anymore.

i don't care about what they tried to do, i care about what they put out, and their statements about how they don't know how to do anything.

"We don't know how to do fun minigames, so we don't do them"
"We don't know how to do companion romances, so we don't do them"
"I've lost touch with how to make RPGs for the core audience, if I ever knew how", or something to that effect
"People throw temper tantrums when you try to hold them accountable for features"
All things stated by either Cain or Sawyer.

 

[Roguey]

"We don't know how to do fun minigames, so we don't do them"
"We don't know how to do companion romances, so we don't do them"

Sounds like the correct approach. You want to endure the shitty minigames we had to put up with in the 00s/10s? Annoying/box-ticking romances?

 

[Fedora Master]

They literally throw up their arms as soon as they face implementation challenges nowadays, as admitted by both Sawyer and Cain.

Obsidian spent two years trying to make Skyrim happen when they should have ended that excursion much sooner.

btw sawyer has an entire talk about the importance of UCD but i couldn't find it on YT anymore.

i don't care about what they tried to do, i care about what they put out, and their statements about how they don't know how to do anything.

"We don't know how to do fun minigames, so we don't do them"
"We don't know how to do companion romances, so we don't do them"
"I've lost touch with how to make RPGs for the core audience, if I ever knew how", or something to that effect
"People throw temper tantrums when you try to hold them accountable for features"
All things stated by either Cain or Sawyer.

If only they came to the logical conclusion of "We don't know how to make good games"

 

[GentlemanCthulhu]

"We don't know how to do fun minigames, so we don't do them"
"We don't know how to do companion romances, so we don't do them"

Sounds like the correct approach. You want to endure the shitty minigames we had to put up with in the 00s/10s? Annoying/box-ticking romances?

What is the actual point you're trying to make? That Obsidian makes great RPGs and that Avowed is one of them?

 

[luj1]

Morgoth is the proof why you shouldn't electrocute children with high voltages

 

[Camel]

The guy posting in 2008.

When was the last time Obsidian made a good game? Seriously.

 

[Roguey]

What is the actual point you're trying to make? That Obsidian makes great RPGs and that Avowed is one of them?

A number of people seem to be enjoying the combat and exploration.

 

[La vie sexuelle]

The only people capable of exterting enormous pressure on social life are billionaires - they then chose leftists as their scapegoats to keep you distracted and disempowered.

Society is never divided into people with power and people without power. Therefore, even the powerful must fear the crowd. Why do you think Trump won? Because he was allowed to. Why was he allowed? Because the powerful corrected their course, fearing the contradictions that would tear the plebs apart.

Oh and I believe you that Trump can act, just in a really bad way. Looking at his models, such as Hungary or Russia, you can clearly see where the journey will end. Have fun with that.

I'm not an American, so he's not my president. My purpose was only to demonstrate that the American people elected him (with the permission of the real rulers of this country) because that is the general social dynamic. At least today.
Because Avowed, as a game of the Biden era, may also show something else (we will evaluate it in a few years) - the burnout of a certain cultural model, and its tolerance today, is the result of the proximity of this period.

If that's the case, I'd really like to see Vavra try to pose as Chud again during the KC3 premiere :D

 

[GentlemanCthulhu]

What is the actual point you're trying to make? That Obsidian makes great RPGs and that Avowed is one of them?

A number of people seem to be enjoying the combat and exploration.

Mate some people enjoy inserting metal rods down their urethra.

 

[Litmanen]

Stop being part of the problem.

The problem is that this board is increasingly made of material that's been recycled wholesale from /v/.

Pretty soon the only person actually talking about playing games will be ol'willy posting his builds in the underrail thread.

The rest will be people using Grok to try and figure out how light a shade of purple can be before it becomes woke.

Maybe stop releasing shitty woke ass games and we will play them, yes?

Nobody is forcing you to play a fucking game. These are not your games. These are their games, and they put whatever the fuck they want in them. If you don’t like it, don’t play it, but also stop pissing off those who just want to hear about the game from people who actually play it. Take your fucking political battles to your own drama thread, not in a thread dedicated to a game you won’t even play.

These are not your games. Even if the problem were the politicization of games (which it isn’t), they’re doing it with the games they pay for and create. If you’re not interested, go play your fucking games that you actually like and stop filling a thread with your bullshit and that of idiots like you.

That's an incredibly retarded argument that would make any kind of criticism for any kind of medium moot.

You can criticize whatever the fuck you want. But we’re talking about games here, and before criticizing them, you should at least try them or, at the very least, make critiques that are actually relevant to the game in question: well-founded, serious, and properly argued critiques.

Not just endlessly repeating the same points in every thread, on loop, without a shred of critical thinking or common sense.

You're absolutely free to criticize Avowed and say it’s shit. I, for one, already have a feeling it won’t be the game of my dreams. But I’m not here trashing it without ever having played it, nor am I blindly praising it. I’m just following the thread, and I’d actually like to read balanced, serious, and well-reasoned opinions.

Not endless rants from idiots about how purple is somehow gayer than red.

Are you French? I just want to know.

Are you idiot?

Don't answer, I know.

 

[Morgoth]

The only people capable of exterting enormous pressure on social life are billionaires - they then chose leftists as their scapegoats to keep you distracted and disempowered.

Society is never divided into people with power and people without power. Therefore, even the powerful must fear the crowd. Why do you think Trump won? Because he was allowed to. Why was he allowed? Because the powerful corrected their course, fearing the contradictions that would tear the plebs apart.

Oh and I believe you that Trump can act, just in a really bad way. Looking at his models, such as Hungary or Russia, you can clearly see where the journey will end. Have fun with that.

I'm not an American, so he's not my president. My purpose was only to demonstrate that the American people elected him (with the permission of the real rulers of this country) because that is the general social dynamic. At least today.
Because Avowed, as a game of the Biden era, may also show something else (we will evaluate it in a few years) - the burnout of a certain cultural model, and its tolerance today, is the result of the proximity of this period.

If that's the case, I'd really like to see Vavra try to pose as Chud again during the KC3 premiere :D

The powerful these days are mostly anxious about their mortality. They are massive fear spreaders, and it all trickles down to society through X.

Why do I think Trump won? Because the Democrats mostly did badly, not because the Trump electorate expanded.

You're losing me about Avowed being tied to the Biden era. That's a bit far fetched, no?

 

[Brickfrog]

You're losing me about Avowed being tied to the Biden era. That's a bit far fetched, no?

Don't you remember when Trump put an end to woke video games the first time around?

 

[Mikeal]

Stop being part of the problem.

The problem is that this board is increasingly made of material that's been recycled wholesale from /v/.

Pretty soon the only person actually talking about playing games will be ol'willy posting his builds in the underrail thread.

The rest will be people using Grok to try and figure out how light a shade of purple can be before it becomes woke.

Maybe stop releasing shitty woke ass games and we will play them, yes?

Nobody is forcing you to play a fucking game. These are not your games. These are their games, and they put whatever the fuck they want in them. If you don’t like it, don’t play it, but also stop pissing off those who just want to hear about the game from people who actually play it. Take your fucking political battles to your own drama thread, not in a thread dedicated to a game you won’t even play.

These are not your games. Even if the problem were the politicization of games (which it isn’t), they’re doing it with the games they pay for and create. If you’re not interested, go play your fucking games that you actually like and stop filling a thread with your bullshit and that of idiots like you.

There are their games, these are not your games until they flopped hard as fuck then suddenly everyone start crying why white men aren't buying them.

 

[Litmanen]

Stop being part of the problem.

The problem is that this board is increasingly made of material that's been recycled wholesale from /v/.

Pretty soon the only person actually talking about playing games will be ol'willy posting his builds in the underrail thread.

The rest will be people using Grok to try and figure out how light a shade of purple can be before it becomes woke.

Maybe stop releasing shitty woke ass games and we will play them, yes?

Nobody is forcing you to play a fucking game. These are not your games. These are their games, and they put whatever the fuck they want in them. If you don’t like it, don’t play it, but also stop pissing off those who just want to hear about the game from people who actually play it. Take your fucking political battles to your own drama thread, not in a thread dedicated to a game you won’t even play.

These are not your games. Even if the problem were the politicization of games (which it isn’t), they’re doing it with the games they pay for and create. If you’re not interested, go play your fucking games that you actually like and stop filling a thread with your bullshit and that of idiots like you.

There are their games, these are not your games until they flopped hard as fuck then suddenly everyone start crying why white men aren't buying them.

Once they flop, let them cry.

 

[La vie sexuelle]

The only people capable of exterting enormous pressure on social life are billionaires - they then chose leftists as their scapegoats to keep you distracted and disempowered.

Society is never divided into people with power and people without power. Therefore, even the powerful must fear the crowd. Why do you think Trump won? Because he was allowed to. Why was he allowed? Because the powerful corrected their course, fearing the contradictions that would tear the plebs apart.

Oh and I believe you that Trump can act, just in a really bad way. Looking at his models, such as Hungary or Russia, you can clearly see where the journey will end. Have fun with that.

I'm not an American, so he's not my president. My purpose was only to demonstrate that the American people elected him (with the permission of the real rulers of this country) because that is the general social dynamic. At least today.
Because Avowed, as a game of the Biden era, may also show something else (we will evaluate it in a few years) - the burnout of a certain cultural model, and its tolerance today, is the result of the proximity of this period.

If that's the case, I'd really like to see Vavra try to pose as Chud again during the KC3 premiere :D

The powerful these days are mostly anxious about their mortality. They are massive fear spreaders, and it all trickles down to society through X.

Why do I think Trump won? Because the Democrats mostly did badly, not because the Trump electorate expanded.

You're losing me about Avowed being tied to the Biden era. That's a bit far fetched, no?

The games have been in development for years, and Avowed's production coincides largely with Biden's (they started under the first Trump, but you can see from the trailers that it all went to waste).

Don't you remember when Trump put an end to woke video games the first time around?

The first Trump era was different. He was probably an aberration. That's why he was fought so freely, that's why he was so cautious, and that's why he lost. But now it appears in different conditions, in a different style. And it has strong allies within. Their face is Musk, but there are more of these people.

Also, if you don't believe me, why did Disney adopt DEI under Obama and abandon it now, just after Trump's victory? Because only now the course has been changed.

 

[Raghar]

You're losing me about Avowed being tied to the Biden era. That's a bit far fetched, no?

Don't you remember when Trump put an end to woke video games the first time around?

No, I don't.

 

[Morgoth]

The games have been in development for years, and Avowed's production coincides largely with Biden's (they started under the first Trump, but you can see from the trailers that it all went to waste).

And this is where the commonalities end; coincidence. Stop trying to find faults that can fit into oligarch narrative.

 

[Brickfrog]

The first Trump era was different. He was probably an aberration. That's why he was fought so freely, that's why he was so cautious, and that's why he lost. But now it appears in different conditions, in a different style.

Even if the president had the power to make entertainment companies produce content in line with their politics (they don't), do you really think Trump would give a shit?

Do you think Trump is going to lean on Embracer group to get rid of pronoun options and robust hair customizers because people are whining on forums he's never heard of? He doesn't give a shit dude.

 

[Fedora Master]

The first Trump era was different. He was probably an aberration. That's why he was fought so freely, that's why he was so cautious, and that's why he lost. But now it appears in different conditions, in a different style.

Even if the president had the power to make entertainment companies produce content in line with their politics (they don't), do you really think Trump would give a shit?

Do you think Trump is going to lean on Embracer group to get rid of pronoun options and robust hair customizers because chuds on /v/ are mad? He doesn't give a shit dude.

We're going to make RPGs great again!

 

[HumanMech]

At least now there is dedicated area for all that drama which is an improvement for the actual gayming section

ftfy

Because that's what you do by slurping every recent lgbtq goyslop. So don't kid yourself about "actual gaming".