Armored Core VI: Fires of Rubicon

[KIss My Ass]

The increasing focus on bullshit bosses is part of the decline.
I enjoyed Sen's Fortress for the fortress, Iron Golem was a good boss after a great level, same with Blighttown and Quelaag etc.. nowadays everything in From games is banal except the bosses, which are bullshit.
Excuse the hyperbole. Still good games compared to the rest of the industry.

Am a hopeless lover of From Software but I agree with you. The series at its peak, for me, was about excellent and atmospheric level design topped off with a good boss. People meme on the difficult bosses like O&S, Malenia and Gael so the devs think people want more of that because some big mouths won't shut up. Its the same bullshit where people act like the draw to the series is the difficulty.


Also I'm glad you mentioned Blighttown becasue it was a damn good level that people moan about too much. It sucked on the original hardware due to slowdown but once that was fixed it easily became one of the best zones in the game. The swamp = bad Dark Souls meme is trash. Lets look...

Demons Souls - Valley of Defilement. Peak incline, best swamp level ever.

Blight Town - Awesome, great verticality and fun in general.

The Gutter - Kind of annoying but I enjoyed the atmosphere plus any level involving the torch mechanic is great in DS2.

Farron's Keep - I liked this level somehow but I don't know why.

I agree that the world and level design in Dark Souls 1 is what made the game, all though i wouldn't go so far as saying the boss design didn't matter.

However, if you are going to make an argument that loss of focus on level design is "decline", wouldn't that apply to Bloodborne as well?

Because i think that's when the "decline" in question begun, especially since a lot of what was in Bloodborne got carried over into Dark Souls 3.

At that point, one might say something like "well, Bloodborne was a different kind of game, didn't need big interconnected maps like Dark Souls 1", but then, we aren't talking about decline specifically anymore, but different and apparently legitimate directions. In which case, big focus on bosses and less focus on level design is appropriate for games like Bloodborne or Sekiro, but not Dark Souls.

When i first played Dark Souls 3, i made a similar argument, that the focus on boss design at the expense of level design was taking the series in the wrong direction and i even blamed Bloodborne for it. Turns out the issue was that they were super lazy when they made Dark Souls 3 which was really just a Bloodborne total conversion if you really want to get down to it.

Now compared to Dark Souls 3, Elden Ring was a return to form if we consider the legacy dungeons, and it's only the gargantuan open world filler that gets in the way of that special Dark Souls 1 experience, but then Elden Ring is a different beast from either Bloodborne or Sekiro so i'm not sure we can talk about a single, general decline here that basically amounts to bosses at the expense of map design. As much as we all hated the open world, it isn't exactly that. Elden Ring also offers a great deal of customization, build possibilities and lots of "toys" to play around so again you can't say there's a general trend to turn Souls into Bloodborne. Apparently, Dark Souls 3 was a single case here.

This brings us up to Armored Core, because this is a game where the kind of Dark Souls 1 style of world building wouldn't fit. The only way you could expand on the map design here is by making them larger with multiple militarized objectives etc (and i certainly wished they had done that). The introduction of Sekiro bosses into the AC formula is again a different matter than the focus on bosses at the expense of world design that one might see as a degeneration when applied to Souls. I don't know how elaborate maps were in later Armored Core entires but i can't imagine the design was much different than this.

But you agree Dark Souls 2 + it's DLCs is better than Dark Souls 1 overall, right?

 

[Vyadhis]

I wish I had a way to record my times with Vanquish in the early days, when I was in the top 10 or top 5 on the challenge leaderboards among the japs and ching-chongs, aka the best of the best. I was that good at this speedy action shit. Now I'm a hollow shell of what I once was. It's depressing as fuck. Games like these bum me out. Just reminds you that you're slowly dying.

What I miss is when I had loads of energy to play all these games, I feel so drained anymore in my age and it frustrates me. I hydrate, take vitamins, try to be healthy but I just can't beat aging I guess. Gone are the days of me marathoning Warcraft 3 for 16 hours without sleep.

 

[Great Deceiver]

I wish I had a way to record my times with Vanquish in the early days, when I was in the top 10 or top 5 on the challenge leaderboards among the japs and ching-chongs, aka the best of the best. I was that good at this speedy action shit. Now I'm a hollow shell of what I once was. It's depressing as fuck. Games like these bum me out. Just reminds you that you're slowly dying.

What I miss is when I had loads of energy to play all these games, I feel so drained anymore in my age and it frustrates me. I hydrate, take vitamins, try to be healthy but I just can't beat aging I guess. Gone are the days of me marathoning Warcraft 3 for 16 hours without sleep.

I'm 43 and am still able to play 12 hours of nonstop Dota. Get with the times, gramps

 

[Multidirectional]

There are some builds that seem to trivilize bosses and if you don't use those bosses are actually harder than anything in Elden Ring, which to me is clearly hyperbole but since the Sekiro guy was the director of this game there's a possibility they really are that hard (if done the hard way, with no OP builds).

Sounds like you were filtered by Sekiro before even really learning to play it, none of the fights in it were as hard as the most bullshit bosses in Elden Ring for me. Of course I wasn't looking up on the internet how to break these fights, maybe I would think differently if I had. But if played normally end game bosses in ER are way more bullshit than Sekiro in my opinion. All except Demon of Hatred maybe.

 

[Nathir]

I wish I had a way to record my times with Vanquish in the early days, when I was in the top 10 or top 5 on the challenge leaderboards among the japs and ching-chongs, aka the best of the best. I was that good at this speedy action shit. Now I'm a hollow shell of what I once was. It's depressing as fuck. Games like these bum me out. Just reminds you that you're slowly dying.

What I miss is when I had loads of energy to play all these games, I feel so drained anymore in my age and it frustrates me. I hydrate, take vitamins, try to be healthy but I just can't beat aging I guess. Gone are the days of me marathoning Warcraft 3 for 16 hours without sleep.

I'm 43 and am still able to play 12 hours of nonstop Dota. Get with the times, gramps

Spoiler alert: Vyadhis is 83.

 

[Vyadhis]

The increasing focus on bullshit bosses is part of the decline.
I enjoyed Sen's Fortress for the fortress, Iron Golem was a good boss after a great level, same with Blighttown and Quelaag etc.. nowadays everything in From games is banal except the bosses, which are bullshit.
Excuse the hyperbole. Still good games compared to the rest of the industry.

Am a hopeless lover of From Software but I agree with you. The series at its peak, for me, was about excellent and atmospheric level design topped off with a good boss. People meme on the difficult bosses like O&S, Malenia and Gael so the devs think people want more of that because some big mouths won't shut up. Its the same bullshit where people act like the draw to the series is the difficulty.


Also I'm glad you mentioned Blighttown becasue it was a damn good level that people moan about too much. It sucked on the original hardware due to slowdown but once that was fixed it easily became one of the best zones in the game. The swamp = bad Dark Souls meme is trash. Lets look...

Demons Souls - Valley of Defilement. Peak incline, best swamp level ever.

Blight Town - Awesome, great verticality and fun in general.

The Gutter - Kind of annoying but I enjoyed the atmosphere plus any level involving the torch mechanic is great in DS2.

Farron's Keep - I liked this level somehow but I don't know why.

Every level you listed contains a swamp in one form or another, looks like you're a swamp fetishist.

Guilty as charged. I've loved swamps ever since I was a little kid. My dad use to work at a nature center during summers and he'd take me on lots of hikes. We'd go to swamps too.

 

[jaekl]

Were they poison?

 

[Nathir]

The increasing focus on bullshit bosses is part of the decline.
I enjoyed Sen's Fortress for the fortress, Iron Golem was a good boss after a great level, same with Blighttown and Quelaag etc.. nowadays everything in From games is banal except the bosses, which are bullshit.
Excuse the hyperbole. Still good games compared to the rest of the industry.

Am a hopeless lover of From Software but I agree with you. The series at its peak, for me, was about excellent and atmospheric level design topped off with a good boss. People meme on the difficult bosses like O&S, Malenia and Gael so the devs think people want more of that because some big mouths won't shut up. Its the same bullshit where people act like the draw to the series is the difficulty.


Also I'm glad you mentioned Blighttown becasue it was a damn good level that people moan about too much. It sucked on the original hardware due to slowdown but once that was fixed it easily became one of the best zones in the game. The swamp = bad Dark Souls meme is trash. Lets look...

Demons Souls - Valley of Defilement. Peak incline, best swamp level ever.

Blight Town - Awesome, great verticality and fun in general.

The Gutter - Kind of annoying but I enjoyed the atmosphere plus any level involving the torch mechanic is great in DS2.

Farron's Keep - I liked this level somehow but I don't know why.

I agree that the world and level design in Dark Souls 1 is what made the game, all though i wouldn't go so far as saying the boss design didn't matter.

However, if you are going to make an argument that loss of focus on level design is "decline", wouldn't that apply to Bloodborne as well?

Because i think that's when the "decline" in question begun, especially since a lot of what was in Bloodborne got carried over into Dark Souls 3.

At that point, one might say something like "well, Bloodborne was a different kind of game, didn't need big interconnected maps like Dark Souls 1", but then, we aren't talking about decline specifically anymore, but different and apparently legitimate directions. In which case, big focus on bosses and less focus on level design is appropriate for games like Bloodborne or Sekiro, but not Dark Souls.

When i first played Dark Souls 3, i made a similar argument, that the focus on boss design at the expense of level design was taking the series in the wrong direction and i even blamed Bloodborne for it. Turns out the issue was that they were super lazy when they made Dark Souls 3 which was really just a Bloodborne total conversion if you really want to get down to it.

Now compared to Dark Souls 3, Elden Ring was a return to form if we consider the legacy dungeons, and it's only the gargantuan open world filler that gets in the way of that special Dark Souls 1 experience, but then Elden Ring is a different beast from either Bloodborne or Sekiro so i'm not sure we can talk about a single, general decline here that basically amounts to bosses at the expense of map design. As much as we all hated the open world, it isn't exactly that. Elden Ring also offers a great deal of customization, build possibilities and lots of "toys" to play around so again you can't say there's a general trend to turn Souls into Bloodborne. Apparently, Dark Souls 3 was a single case here.

This brings us up to Armored Core, because this is a game where the kind of Dark Souls 1 style of world building wouldn't fit. The only way you could expand on the map design here is by making them larger with multiple militarized objectives etc (and i certainly wished they had done that). The introduction of Sekiro bosses into the AC formula is again a different matter than the focus on bosses at the expense of world design that one might see as a degeneration when applied to Souls. I don't know how elaborate maps were in later Armored Core entires but i can't imagine the design was much different than this.

For me what makes souls games is also art design and atmosphere. And Elden Ring I think is really exceptional in that regard. So despite the open world faults, it's still an amazing game for me.

 

[Lyric Suite]

There are some builds that seem to trivilize bosses and if you don't use those bosses are actually harder than anything in Elden Ring, which to me is clearly hyperbole but since the Sekiro guy was the director of this game there's a possibility they really are that hard (if done the hard way, with no OP builds).

Sounds like you were filtered by Sekiro before even really learning to play it, none of the fights in it were as hard as the most bullshit bosses in Elden Ring for me. Of course I wasn't looking up on the internet how to break these fights, maybe I would think differently if I had. But if played normally end game bosses in ER are way more bullshit than Sekiro in my opinion. All except Demon of Hatred maybe.

I'm going by what i heard i never actually tried Sekiro. Every time i made an attempt i got cock blocked by something else, last one being Elden Ring.

I could have tried it right now but i opted for AC because i'm sort of sick of swords for the moment.

 

[KIss My Ass]

There are some builds that seem to trivilize bosses and if you don't use those bosses are actually harder than anything in Elden Ring, which to me is clearly hyperbole but since the Sekiro guy was the director of this game there's a possibility they really are that hard (if done the hard way, with no OP builds).

Sounds like you were filtered by Sekiro before even really learning to play it, none of the fights in it were as hard as the most bullshit bosses in Elden Ring for me. Of course I wasn't looking up on the internet how to break these fights, maybe I would think differently if I had. But if played normally end game bosses in ER are way more bullshit than Sekiro in my opinion. All except Demon of Hatred maybe.

I was filtered by Sekiro at first and then I learned it. Great game but I never finished it. Owl was the final boss to me. After I beat him I didn't feel any drive to continue on. I remember the exact point I lost interest in the game. I was fucking around with that last Bull miniboss running around in circles and I just stopped and asked "why am I doing this?" and dropped the game forever. I have no intention of going back, but it's a great game. I just don't have the energy to deal with demanding action shit anymore. It sucks because From makes the best games ever but I'm nearing the end of my life cycle and getting slow as fuck.

Fighting Owl is what broke me.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I'm nearing the end of my life cycle and getting slow as fuck.

Fighting Owl is what broke me.

I guarantee I'm significantly older than you, bitch tits. Quit whining and making excuses.

 

[TedNugent]

Just bought this game on PS5, got to the Balteus fight, really annoyed, got creamed many times.

I guess what annoys me is that the game seems to want you to rely so heavily on the roadie run booster mode and the auto tracking sword attack on boss fights to do any damage, jesus christ, this is nothing like OG AC. Narrative headgirl literally says you have to break the pulse shield "to do any meaningful damage."

Missing my strafe key.

I'll get it down eventually, just not enjoying the new mechanics.

 

[PapaPetro]

A manly salute.

 

[PapaPetro]

So if this game does well, does that mean they'll start making more Gundam games again?
Really jonzing for a new Gihren's Greed game...

I miss the boxy late 1970s mecha designs:

 

[jaekl]

Just bought this game on PS5, got to the Balteus fight, really annoyed, got creamed many times.

I guess what annoys me is that the game seems to want you to rely so heavily on the roadie run booster mode and the auto tracking sword attack on boss fights to do any damage, jesus christ, this is nothing like OG AC. Narrative headgirl literally says you have to break the pulse shield "to do any meaningful damage."

Missing my strafe key.

I'll get it down eventually, just not enjoying the new mechanics.

Thanks to the hard work of these posters a couple of pages ago, I was able to dump the gay ass sword and shoot all my enemies with guns like a civilized person while floating around like a drone, skidding in circles or bunny hopping.

Spoiler

Okay I'm back to playing this robot game where you stab helicopters, what's the equivalent of Havel's + Greatshield + Greatsword in this as far as making the game extremely easy?

Get quad legs, slap on the generator for 416k, equip plasma rifles on both hands, equip big laser rifles for each shoulder, go to town.

Okay I'm back to playing this robot game where you stab helicopters, what's the equivalent of Havel's + Greatshield + Greatsword in this as far as making the game extremely easy?

small tank legs/quad legs, dual lazorz/songbirds/stuns on shoulder, dual chainguns/zimmermans/bazookas in hands

I don't remember which one balteus is but some combo of those weapons will kill him.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Just bought this game on PS5, got to the Balteus fight, really annoyed, got creamed many times.

I guess what annoys me is that the game seems to want you to rely so heavily on the roadie run booster mode and the auto tracking sword attack on boss fights to do any damage, jesus christ, this is nothing like OG AC. Narrative headgirl literally says you have to break the pulse shield "to do any meaningful damage."

Missing my strafe key.

I'll get it down eventually, just not enjoying the new mechanics.

I used the sword heavily on AC1, so for me this is just the same old mechanic lul:



Literally completed all the arena fights in AC1 and its expansions like this, so this for me feels like the most natural thing in the world.

BTW don't mind me trying to hit his front shield with the sword, i was checking out to see if any damage could go through at all, but guess he is just invulnerable from the front. This boss was just has easy as the Helicopter. Still waiting for the Sekiro-like stuff.

 

[Nathir]

Just bought this game on PS5, got to the Balteus fight, really annoyed, got creamed many times.

I guess what annoys me is that the game seems to want you to rely so heavily on the roadie run booster mode and the auto tracking sword attack on boss fights to do any damage, jesus christ, this is nothing like OG AC. Narrative headgirl literally says you have to break the pulse shield "to do any meaningful damage."

Missing my strafe key.

I'll get it down eventually, just not enjoying the new mechanics.

I just beat Balteus yesterday. I replaced the sword first chance I got, and was using Shotgun + base rifle in the hands, and laser cannon + base missile launcher on the shoulders. I was wiping for like an hour, probably died around 10 times. I thought my build sucked but the last try I completely dumpstered him and still had 1 heal remaining. The key to the fight is that when you deplete his shield he becomes vulnerable. And you can actually stagger him again before his shield comes up again. If you do that you can get him to 50-60% and he does the explosion shield recharge. And then if you deplete his shield and stagger him again he is already dead. So you don't have to remove shield 4 times, only 2 times. Just make sure your weapons are reloaded before you deplete the shield.

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

 

[Lyric Suite]

Time for fashion my dudes:

 

[Axe Father]

 

[Sukhāvatī]

^ Weird that hearts went out of fashion for warriors; it was a common design feature on medieval weapons.

 

[jaekl]

^ Weird that hearts went out of fashion for warriors; it was a common design feature on medieval weapons.

Girls made them gay, like they did with rpgs

 

[TedNugent]

I've been putting along in the game, fuck that spider guy. After that, it started getting fun again.

Are there any real advantages to staying bipedal? I haven't tried anything else, and what made it worse is that I was insisting on having a sword and shield, which made it feel like hard mode with a light build. Am I handicapping myself by using an oldschool build? lol. Shield seems pretty good in AC fights, but it seems totally useless in boss fights to the point where I don't even use it. Why use shield when I can just hit a button and evade death ray. It feels like dead weight. Reverse legs seem to have little point.

Laser seems really good against ACs, except for when they have shields, and then it's literally useless.

Once I switched to dual gun and dual missile, I was much happier. I was scoping out the wheelchair legs, and what gives? It looks like they have better stats in every way compared to my biped legs, including better boost, despite weighing 14k more. Is there honestly any good reason not to just use the wheelchair legs? I just don't want to be a rolly boy, this is a mech game. So I settled with the 10x missile pod since it does good stagger damage with no self root.

Tanky boi legs used to be slow as shit, of course because they were heavy as fuck. Weight seems to actually have very little impact on your movement. Back in the day, I think it had more of a linear relationship with your....well, attachment to gravity. It seems to me that tanky legs or quad legs are kinda the way to go in this game based on what everyone is saying, since you don't get any knockback from your laser/grenade spam when pounding boss stagger bars, and it doesn't seem to affect your mobility much at all, in fact there are benefits with the big stagger resist.

I used the sword heavily on AC1, so for me this is just the same old mechanic lul:



Literally completed all the arena fights in AC1 and its expansions like this, so this for me feels like the most natural thing in the world.

BTW don't mind me trying to hit his front shield with the sword, i was checking out to see if any damage could go through at all, but guess he is just invulnerable from the front. This boss was just has easy as the Helicopter. Still waiting for the Sekiro-like stuff.

The sword didn't have auto tracking and there wasn't any of this boosty shit, shields/breakbars/etc.

I actually had to take it off, it was just straight up ruining the gameplay for me. It also seems to be sort of trash in AC fights, since they can just...keep moving. And you end up standing there, stunlocked if you whiff. I used it on Balteus, had to ditch it on the sea spider.

I hate that autotrack shit. You end up spinning all around. Gives me hand cramps. It's funny how easy Balteus looks with a full tank build.

 

[Frank Capicoli]

Reverse legs seem to have little point.

They have the highest jump rate and good bonus to qb(dodge).

On most fights I couldn't get missiles to reliably hit enough to stagger to ever be able to use the massively heavy weapons that you'd put on a tetrapod from their ability to ignore animation locks, and I never found a situation where the hover ability justified the loss of maneuverability. So I just used reverse legs for the vast majority of the game.

 

[Vyadhis]

I haven't touched much of this game but is it possible to make a cool looking mech that's also efficient or am I going to be stuck with very specific builds? You can paint stuff right?