Game News AoD Gameplay Video - Carrinas Assassination

[Lennie]

The stealth system sounds kind of lame. I was hoping for something that took into account lighting, noise, LOS, and the guard's perception. It should also allow you to create diversions and hide using objects in the enviroment.

 

[shihonage]

Expecting the same amount of intricacy from a stealth subsystem in an RPG as in a game that fully revolves around a stealth system, is kind of retarded.

 

[zeitgeist]

The music is a perfect fit for the combat. Beat after beat going hand in hand with thrust after thrust, each a pseudoclimactic stroke with no release in sight. Monotonous grunts, grating screams, neverending sighs, an ingenious postironic deconstruction of the genre and its audience.

 

[Lennie]

Expecting the same amount of intricacy from a stealth subsystem in an RPG as in a game that fully revolves around a stealth system, is kind of retarded.

I disagree. We expect some complexity and challenge in the combat system, so why shouldn't we expect the same of the stealth system? Stealth isn't a huge part of AOD, but neither is combat, so why should combat get a ton of attention while stealth is left as some mediocre time waster.

 

[Esquilax]

Lennie, while I would love to see lighting, noise, perception, etc. into account (Thief I and II are my all-time favourite games), and I am positive that Vince has thought about it, I would much rather the game be released some time this century. IIRC, it took nearly a year of polishing to get the combat up to the quality it is now, so to put together a stealth system with all those things you mentioned (and testing it so it isn't broken) on top of that would take a huge amount of time. The simplistic, rudimentary system will do - besides, there's probably plenty of fun opportunities for sneaking in text adventures.

A more in-depth, complex stealth system can wait for a sequel or a future ITS game, I just want the fucking thing in my hands at this point.

Vince, I know that your team has been purposely tight-lipped about release dates to avoid disappointing people, but regardless, do you see a 2011 release as likely?

 

[nihil]

It's true. RPGs are about music. The rest is just a candy wrapper. A true connoisseur will grind for hours to enjoy a delightful midi tune.

Actually, in the case of FF7, that is almost entirely true. Best combat music ever, although not a fitting style for AoD, I suppose.

 

[Silellak]

why should combat get a ton of attention while stealth is left as some mediocre time waster.

For the same reason they released a "combat" demo rather than a "stealth" demo - combat has always been a bigger part of the game than stealth for pretty much any game in any genre with the exception of those specifically designed around stealth as a gameplay feature. This is a turn-based isometric RPG and it's doing stealth the same way other turn-based isometric RPGs do. Like most other games in that genre, things like "stealth" are abstracted as much as possible, so that the primary determiner of success is the character's skills, not the player's ability.

VD has also said that having good combat was a goal because so many of his favorite RPG's don't have very good combat, and those games are often panned for that very reason. He doesn't want people to speak of AoD the same way they speak of Arcanum - "it's good - if you can stomach the awful combat." When was the last time a turn-based RPG was panned for not having good enough stealth?

 

[visions]

The music's pretty good actually. The posts in this thread describing the music as too fast or aggressive puzzle me, tbh.

 

[Admiral jimbob]

Lennie, while I would love to see lighting, noise, perception, etc. into account (Thief I and II are my all-time favourite games), and I am positive that Vince has thought about it, I would much rather the game be released some time this century. IIRC, it took nearly a year of polishing to get the combat up to the quality it is now, so to put together a stealth system with all those things you mentioned (and testing it so it isn't broken) on top of that would take a huge amount of time. The simplistic, rudimentary system will do - besides, there's probably plenty of fun opportunities for sneaking in text adventures.

A more in-depth, complex stealth system can wait for a sequel or a future ITS game, I just want the fucking thing in my hands at this point.

Vince, I know that your team has been purposely tight-lipped about release dates to avoid disappointing people, but regardless, do you see a 2011 release as likely?

NOOOOO AOD MUST BE THE PERFECT GAME IN EVERY WAY WHAT KIND OF GAME WOULD FALLOUT HAVE BEEN WITHOUT A LIGHTNING AND NOISE SUBSYSTEM

 

[Esquilax]

NOOOOO AOD MUST BE THE PERFECT GAME IN EVERY WAY WHAT KIND OF GAME WOULD FALLOUT HAVE BEEN WITHOUT A LIGHTNING AND NOISE SUBSYSTEM

A banalshitboring one. Which it is.

 

[Kz3r0]

why should combat get a ton of attention while stealth is left as some mediocre time waster.

For the same reason they released a "combat" demo rather than a "stealth" demo - combat has always been a bigger part of the game than stealth for pretty much any game in any genre with the exception of those specifically designed around stealth as a gameplay feature. This is a turn-based isometric RPG and it's doing stealth the same way other turn-based isometric RPGs do. Like most other games in that genre, things like "stealth" are abstracted as much as possible, so that the primary determiner of success is the character's skills, not the player's ability.

VD has also said that having good combat was a goal because so many of his favorite RPG's don't have very good combat, and those games are often panned for that very reason. He doesn't want people to speak of AoD the same way they speak of Arcanum - "it's good - if you can stomach the awful combat." When was the last time a turn-based RPG was panned for not having good enough stealth?

Fair point, a pity tho.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I must admit that the lack of a noise meter bugs me.

Had to prioritize. Our focus was on the combat and choices/multiple solutions.

About the combat I too felt it was too long, but is just a demo ,right?

Not sure what you mean by "demo". This isn't a promo video. It's an actual piece of the game. As for the complaints that the combat feels long, I think it's because you're watching it instead of playing it.

Did you play the demo? If yes, does the fight vs the triarii feel long and tedious? If yes, the game isn't for you. If no, then you don't have to worry about it.

The stealth system sounds kind of lame.

The stealth system won't win any awards or praises, but it has a bit more depth than most RPG stealth systems where you simple go stealthy and can run in front people and stab them in the face, materializing out of nowhere.

I was hoping for something that took into account lighting, noise, LOS, and the guard's perception. It should also allow you to create diversions and hide using objects in the enviroment.

Easier said than done.

Expecting the same amount of intricacy from a stealth subsystem in an RPG as in a game that fully revolves around a stealth system, is kind of retarded.

I disagree. We expect some complexity and challenge in the combat system, so why shouldn't we expect the same of the stealth system?

Expectations should be realistic. Expecting something awesome because you deserve only the best is kinda silly.

Stealth isn't a huge part of AOD, but neither is combat, so why should combat get a ton of attention while stealth is left as some mediocre time waster.

Because combat has been an integral part (and in most cases the core part) of RPGs for decades while stealth hasn't been.

Anyway, I had a really good (imo) idea for a TB stealth system, but we don't have the luxury to fuck around with the game any longer. If AoD sells enough to warrant another game, I can promise you that a stealth system is the next on the list. We will do it right and it will have all the bells and whistles you can think of.

Vince, I know that your team has been purposely tight-lipped about release dates to avoid disappointing people, but regardless, do
you see a 2011 release as likely?

Yes.

 

[denizsi]

Anyway, I had a really good (imo) idea for a TB stealth system.

Please elaborate.

 

[circ]

Because combat has been an integral part (and in most cases the core part) of RPGs for decades while stealth hasn't been.

To be fair, that's because it took over a decade for the systems to become advanced enough to portray even basic stealth. Meanwhile PnP has had no problems doing stealth.

Anyway, I listened to the combat music again, and I still think it's bad. Let me elaborate. It's badly mixed, so the various instruments get drowned in it. You can barely make out the bongos half the time, which by the way was a strange choice in this case. The cymbal and crash uses seem largely random and as someone mentioned earlier, there's far too much treble in the mix. In fact, there's hardly any bass or midrange to speak of. And finally, the chords of the so called melody don't make any sense. At one point they even sound like some experimental jazz, which I hate, but hey.

 

[Johannes]

Will the final game have more complete hotkeys than shown here/present in combat demo?

 

[Azrael the cat]

Expecting the same amount of intricacy from a stealth subsystem in an RPG as in a game that fully revolves around a stealth system, is kind of retarded.

This is what happens when we criticise every single thing we can think of in a modern crpg, rather than just criticising all the bountiful supply of genuinely shite and gamebreaking flaws. Folks start expecting crpgs to match the magical game in their heads, rather than the games that were actually released during the great eras (even FO wasn't 'typical' of that era).

 

[Tycn]

Noise meter? What the fuck? This better be a weak troll aimed at tacking a few more years onto AoD dev time.

 

[Murk]

2011 seems likely? oh my, perhaps I'll have something other than Witcher 2 to play in the coming year...

 

[denizsi]

Down with the "x element can't be as good as in a game solely about x" bullshit! You thought stealth in Thief was good? Bullshit! Thief is a good game overall, there is a very coherent direction in general design and the game satisfies all the goals it aims at in a very balanced manner. Doesn't overpromise and underdeliver; doesn't attempt to overdo. It has nothing to do with Thief having oh such advanced sneaking mechanics because it's as basic as it gets.

With stealth out of the way, name one nonRPG that does one element better than in RPGs. This is all illiterate bullshit you convince yourself to believe because it has been repeated enough times.

 

[shihonage]

Down with the "x element can't be as good as in a game solely about x" bullshit! You thought stealth in Thief was good? Bullshit! Thief is a good game overall, there is a very coherent direction in general design and the game satisfies all the goals it aims at in a very balanced manner. Doesn't overpromise and underdeliver; doesn't attempt to overdo. It has nothing to do with Thief having oh such advanced sneaking mechanics because it's as basic as it gets.

With stealth out of the way, name one nonRPG that does one element better than in RPGs. This is all illiterate bullshit you convince yourself to believe because it has been repeated enough times.

AOD renderer is about on par with Thief I'd say. So, then, AOD has to implement sneaking mechanics like Thief, and it will catch up to Thief.

But then it also has to implement...

...far more complex user interface
...conditional parsing of branching dialogue trees
...multiple tracking of potentially conflicting objectives
...handling of complex properties and cross-interactions of
.....in-game objects
.....people
.....items

... off the top of my head.

Yeah, that seems fair.

As for your "challenge"... uh... Jagged Alliance 2 is combat oriented and it does combat better than any RPG.

Perhaps for a more pure, obvious example - Fallout: Tactics is not really an RPG either, and it has combat that is much deeper than Fallout combat. of course, it doesn't have to worry about handling much in the way of real quests, dialogue or C&C.

 

[BlaineMono]

The game itself looks kinda not that bad, but considering that it's regarded as a SAVIOR THAT DELIVERS US FROM THE DECLINE one would think it's reasonable to expect something more than clunky poorly designed combat, obsolete graphics, UI lifted from teh fallouts and a general feel of dated mediocrity.

On the other hand, we are talking dev team that spent the last year trying to "put together a gameplay video from photoshopped screenshots", so why do I even bother.

Vince can shove his hype, his thursdays and his screenshots up his forum-dwelling arse, wake me up when something tangible is released.

 

[SimpleComplexity]

On the other hand, we are talking dev team that spent the last year trying to "put together a gameplay video from photoshopped screenshots", so why do I even bother.

Why did they even put together a video from photoshopped screenshots when you can just turn on Fraps or Camtasia or whathaveyou and record the whole thing ? And why is it photoshopped, does that mean they made the game look better than it really looks? Questions over questions.

 

[Lennie]

I'm pretty sure the photoshopped screenshots thing was a joke and I don't think they've been working on making a video for very long. One of them said last month that they'd make a video showing off one of the quests when they had time or something along those lines.

 

[flabbyjack]

Very nice gameplay vid. Even with that NPC stuttering back and forth between tiles the AI looks like it didn't get stuck for more than a turn. Pathfinding's a bitch.

Different areas make things look quite nice. But is the best we can hope that the end of the quest line ends with your character running the guild and collecting gold every week? So far things look very promising, with more sensibile design and creativity in this one quest than a I've seen in entire cities.

Edit: Oh I guess that's not a bug. The NPC is just trying to enter that tile and failing . That's hardcore man!

"Skill Walk failed! You tripped on a dead squirrel. Move back two spaces and try again next turn!"

 

[Ladonna]

The game itself looks kinda not that bad, but considering that it's regarded as a SAVIOR THAT DELIVERS US FROM THE DECLINE one would think it's reasonable to expect something more than clunky poorly designed combat, obsolete graphics, UI lifted from teh fallouts and a general feel of dated mediocrity.

On the other hand, we are talking dev team that spent the last year trying to "put together a gameplay video from photoshopped screenshots", so why do I even bother.

Vince can shove his hype, his thursdays and his screenshots up his forum-dwelling arse, wake me up when something tangible is released.

Great, perhaps DU can 'put you to sleep' then? until something better than AoD is released anyway. This would spare everyone from stupid rants like this in the future.