Any game that does spell-casters right?

[laclongquan]

Make spells need regents which are not abundant.

until players found a loophole that allow unlimited supply of regents, either by buying or grinding or whatever. Tell me one game use that feature to that effect and I can tell you the loophole of that.

Isle of the Xenkian Monks, U7SI, the search for mandrake: Players can only find mandrake when the salt tides are in. Mandrake is limited, and only found at certain intervals. (Ok, this was for the player spellbook, but could work to ration strongest components.)

Fens of the Dead, U4, Nightshade: Players can only find Nightshade by searching on a moonless night on the area east of Britain (this kept the number of uber spells down, and Nightshade wasn't for sale anywhere.)

It is possible to keep players from getting too powerful. Low and mid-level spells are usable with mana and components, mega spells are only usable here and there.

You are talking about fucking PnP systems right? We are not talking about fucking PnP, but computer games. I care not a pfft about PnP.

Anyway, if we talk about a game using mages well, there always is Baldur's gate 2. IT's not particularly balanced but it's real fun to play magic users.

 

[sser]

There needs to be more mechanics that handle the fact a mage is handling the natural elements from or around his own body. For instance, you eat a bunch of ice cream and it tastes great but then a few hours later and you are shitting something awful. In a lot of games magic is handled without any real consequence. You can really have your cake and eat it too. And then go shit a perfect log.

 

[deuxhero]

On the subject of fun mages, Final Fantasy Tactics has mages that are useful as soon as you get them (white mage less so than Black Mage because items are really cheep and effective early, while White Mages can miss a resurrection and make you ), and has a notable difference between mages and archers (Mages have cast times)

Also: Calculators have a neat idea, though broken as a very broken thing (gahaha, my White Mage kills everyone on her first turn with holy with no MP cost or charge time), and the main point is lost thanks to auto battle making the CPU do it for you, does present a neat idea for casting.

D&D based cRPGs do it wellish as well, with spells that do more than damage/heal/buff.

 

[Rogue]

@Thread: If mages bother you so much, just go play as a standard fighter. Each time you swing, something awesome happens!

 

[Archibald]

But i won`t something awesome to happen when i fart!

 

[Gord]

OTOH, who says each and every class has to be balanced perfectly to the others?

A lot of PnP systems, and that's what many cRPGs are based on, have classes that are more or less useful than others. Mostly for roleplaying reasons. As in RPG.
Ever wondered why Realms of Arkania doesn't have clerics as playable class? Because they were pretty much useless outside of roleplaying (esp. in the old edition RoA is based on).

I admit that it becomes a problem in the mostly combat-centric cRPGs, but thats more than everything an issue of game design.

 

[Daemongar]

Isle of the Xenkian Monks, U7SI, the search for mandrake: Players can only find mandrake when the salt tides are in. Mandrake is limited, and only found at certain intervals. (Ok, this was for the player spellbook, but could work to ration strongest components.)

Fens of the Dead, U4, Nightshade: Players can only find Nightshade by searching on a moonless night on the area east of Britain (this kept the number of uber spells down, and Nightshade wasn't for sale anywhere.)

It is possible to keep players from getting too powerful. Low and mid-level spells are usable with mana and components, mega spells are only usable here and there.

You are talking about fucking PnP systems right? We are not talking about fucking PnP, but computer games. I care not a pfft about PnP.

No, U4 is Ultima 4. U7SI is Ultima 7 Serpent Isle. Both of them are notable for this reason or that. We were talking about a magic system with reagents. Both of these games had ways of limiting very powerful spells, and did reagents quite well, or at least included interesting mechanics to make spellcasting a little more balanced. U7SI (not the pnp rpgs U7SI, the computer based one) eventually added a magical "Ring of Reagents" which made spellcasting overpowered, but that came out in an expansion long after people finished the original game.

Anyway, if we talk about a game using mages well, there always is Baldur's gate 2. IT's not particularly balanced but it's real fun to play magic users.

This I will agree.

 

[sser]

@Thread: If mages bother you so much, just go play as a standard fighter. Each time you swing, something awesome happens!

 

[laclongquan]

Cleric is an useful class for both combatcentric and storycentric games, provided it's designed right.

In combat, their buffing spell and healing spells are of great utility. They dont get used much because of the overabundance of healing potions. An working economy got little potions so clerics will have more use. But so far every game's economy got broken with plenty of potions to buy.

IN story they could play the role of doctors healing people, judges in court, polices (with their blunt weapons) etc... Most games have them playing doctor in temple and potionseller only. That is poor game designs.

IIRC, Icewind Dale got a potion scarcity coupled with gold scarcity so clerics got used very often.

 

[Johannes]

Since you didn't pay attention to research: in Aleshar using magic is powerful. However it comes with a semi-hidden cooldown, random type. If you do it too much your heart explodes and you die.

Best part of a horribly simple rpg.

Edit: well, second best. Best was getting lost in a storm and dying of hunger because you didn't have a map or a compass.

Casting spells just exhausted you, like anything you do in the game. The more powerful spell, and less skilled character in the magic element(s) used, the more it exhausts. I don't really get what you mean with semi-hidden cooldown.


It's a good system I htink, to draw magic from ones hp or fatigue points. BaK, Aleshar, and Arcanum (spells were too cheap in Arc though, and fatigue easy to replenish) are the ones to do that which I can think of now. And ADOM to an extent, after you've run out of PP you can cast from hp, which also drains your mana stat.

 

[Sergiu64]

It's a good system I htink, to draw magic from ones hp or fatigue points. BaK, Aleshar, and Arcanum (spells were too cheap in Arc though, and fatigue easy to replenish) are the ones to do that which I can think of now. And ADOM to an extent, after you've run out of PP you can cast from hp, which also drains your mana stat.

Crappy BaK "clone", Betrayal in Anatara, also used this sytem.

 

[dextermorgan]

Any game that does spell-casters right?

 

[thesheeep]

I don't like pure component based magic systems.
The problem is that if this would be implemented in a video game, you'd always be running around, collecting shit. Which is NOT fun, not at all. And if it's not fun, screw it, it sucks.
And if you run out of items, your character will be completely useless. Congrats. Yes, I know this also happens in DnD when you have no time to rest. And yes, that is also why that system is retarded, too. You're either very strong or utterly useless as a mage there.
All of this only considering combat, of course.

It would be okay, though, if only the more powerful spells would require you to do that. Speaking in DnD terms, say you can cast magic missiles all day long, but to cast a fireball or that banshee scream, you need some expensive and/or rare items. And probably a round more to cast those due to preparation.
But even then, people would either not have the items when they need them, or they value them so much that they never cast the spell.

Or one could just use the Shadowrun rules for magic - unlimited spellcasting, but possibly hurting/knocking out the mage and/or giving mali the more you cast, especially with spells that have a duration. The Legend Of Kyrandia system described earlier in this topic sounded somehow similar.
Then create some spells that fit to your setting and be done with it. There you go, balanced mages without any component requirements.
And the SR system is actually pretty video game friendly.

 

[Gord]

It would be okay, though, if only the more powerful spells would require you to do that. Speaking in DnD terms, say you can cast magic missiles all day long, but to cast a fireball or that banshee scream, you need some expensive and/or rare items. And probably a round more to cast those due to preparation.

Resurrection required use of a diamond, but I don't know about others in DnD.

 

[thesheeep]

There are others in DnD that normally require reagents.
But in all PnP D&D rounds I played, we did not make use of components as everyone felt they were just annoying. We probably would have used them for stuff like ressurection, though.

Still, I think systems that manage balance without having to resort to components are better.

 

[Claw]

I wonder why balancing casters is so difficult.

Personally, I don't feel there is any need for a complicated regulatory system to balance caster power. I like my casters to be very flexible, able to do many things other classes can, just less effectively. Developers may need to just resist the temptating to put in super-powerful spells.

Also, for powerful abilities there's obviously cooldowns, although I personally feel a warm-up delay would work even better. With cooldowns the caster is always running around with some powerful ability at his commands except when he just used it, and then he's spent and needs to rest or something. It tends to work out pretty lame in many games.
I believe charging up a spell while a horde of ogres is charging at you is more interesting than fireballing them first and then waiting for your mana to regen.


I recall one indy-RPG in development has an interesting system where a caster has mana, but doesn't spend it, but rather has to distribute it on his spell effects, so having a powerful active spell effect would limit his ability to use offensive spells, for instance. I feel that should really allow for good balancing, while traditional mana tends to invite swalloing a ton of potions after casting powerful spells.
Does anyone know which one it was? Broken Hourglass maybe?

 

[Stalin]

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Make spells need regents which are not abundant.

until players found a loophole that allow unlimited supply of regents, either by buying or grinding or whatever. Tell me one game use that feature to that effect and I can tell you the loophole of that.

Isle of the Xenkian Monks, U7SI, the search for mandrake: Players can only find mandrake when the salt tides are in. Mandrake is limited, and only found at certain intervals. (Ok, this was for the player spellbook, but could work to ration strongest components.)

Fens of the Dead, U4, Nightshade: Players can only find Nightshade by searching on a moonless night on the area east of Britain (this kept the number of uber spells down, and Nightshade wasn't for sale anywhere.)

It is possible to keep players from getting too powerful. Low and mid-level spells are usable with mana and components, mega spells are only usable here and there.

You are talking about fucking PnP systems right? We are not talking about fucking PnP, but computer games. I care not a pfft about PnP.

Jesus Fucking Christ .

 

[Azarkon]

Fantasy RPGs should either be entirely about mages being demigods or about barbarians being huge, oiled and muscular manly men with mages being demigod boss fights.

Personally, I prefer my tabletop DnD as relatively high level all arcane spellcasters campaigns.

This. Well, not really. But this.

There are two kinds of people who play mages:

The first kind fancies himself the thinking type. He plays a mage because mages have high Int and, in his eyes, so does he. At the end of the day, though, the "thinker" is really just a story fag who wants more dialogue options to validate that he's a deep and sensitive man. He could do with less combat, and prefers simple auto-win spell chains that are "hard to figure out" (but aren't). When that doesn't work he whines on forums about how the game is poorly balanced and looks for a rest crack.

The second kind likes to blow shit up. The digital equivalent of the pyromaniac. Plays for the fancy spell graphics and feeling of raw cosmic pixel power. Shit blowing up on screen is a form of sexual release, especially if he caused it. Being a demi-god of destruction isn't just about killing stuff, though, it's about killing stuff with style. Prefers spells like "Rain of Fucking Chainsaws" and "Sphere of Annihilation." Will power game to maximize the explosions. A variant of this type: the Pokemon master, for whom you replace "blowing shit up" with "having a horde of minions that blow shit up for you" as you casually stroll through a level.

Then there's the third kind, which doesn't actually exist but which people who don't play mages think exist: the type who'd enjoy being a liability with a lot of annoying upkeep such as spell regeants and random misfires that cause you to reload because they get fucking old after the, oh, first two dozen times they happen.

Mages should be demi-gods of destruction, or they should be story fags with ezmode combat. Either way, making them overpowered is a decent first step, unless you're making a shitty MMO with "class balance," in which case you are beyond help.

 

[Stalin]

JUST ABOUT RIGHT

Fantasy RPGs should either be entirely about mages being demigods or about barbarians being huge, oiled and muscular manly men with mages being demigod boss fights.

Personally, I prefer my tabletop DnD as relatively high level all arcane spellcasters campaigns.

This. Well, not really. But this.

There are two kinds of people who play mages:

The first kind fancies himself the thinking type. He plays a mage because mages have high Int and, in his eyes, so does he. At the end of the day, though, the "thinker" is really just a story fag who wants more dialogue options to validate that he's a deep and sensitive man. He could do with less combat, and prefers simple auto-win spell chains that are "hard to figure out" (but aren't). When that doesn't work he whines on forums about how the game is poorly balanced and looks for a rest crack.

The second kind likes to blow shit up. The digital equivalent of the pyromaniac. Plays for the fancy spell graphics and feeling of raw cosmic pixel power. Shit blowing up on screen is a form of sexual release, especially if he caused it. Being a demi-god of destruction isn't just about killing stuff, though, it's about killing stuff with style. Prefers spells like "Rain of Fucking Chainsaws" and "Sphere of Annihilation." Will power game to maximize the explosions. A variant of this type: the Pokemon master, for whom you replace "blowing shit up" with "having a horde of minions that blow shit up for you" as you casually stroll through a level.

Then there's the third kind, which doesn't actually exist but which people who don't play mages think exist: the type who'd enjoy being a liability with a lot of annoying upkeep such as spell regeants and random misfires that cause you to reload because they get fucking old after the, oh, first two dozen times they happen.

Mages should be demi-gods of destruction, or they should be story fags with ezmode combat. Either way, making them overpowered is a decent first step, unless you're making a shitty MMO with "class balance," in which case you are beyond help.

or you could be a utility mage setting the battlefield buffing/debuffing hasting etc and never actually killing anything

 

[Azarkon]

Nobody likes playing healers, dude. Nobody but women and drama queens.

 

[Stalin]

mages don't heal noob

 

[Azarkon]

White mages do

 

[Stalin]

just like in any army the smartest people get sent to do the actual killing right? or do they step back and decide when and where and how it goes down. i think you need few more types in that list of yours

 

[Azarkon]

I've got that covered:

A variant of this type: the Pokemon master, for whom you replace "blowing shit up" with "having a horde of minions that blow shit up for you" as you casually stroll through a level.