Age of Wonders 4

[Zboj Lamignat]

Combat is very good - better than aow3 (hero dont dominate battle, skill matters),

How? Maybe I should try it after all.

Even PF's combat is easily better than 4. The only noticeable improvement over 3 is casting being separate from hero/leader action. But that was already a thing in PF.

 

[Reality]

Stacking persistent enchantment/mutations is all good and fun in the master of magic tradition

But theres also mid combat stacking (strengthen/fortune/mystic) which feels out of line for this genre especially taken to the absurd degree of getting 13 buffs off at once which is achievable with some starting AoE spells.

 

[Suicidal]

I'll play it when they stop working on it and the complete edition is 50% off or something.

 

[Hydro]

Man these Paradox games are a distilled mediocrity, IKEA of PC gaming

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Man these Paradox games are a distilled mediocrity, IKEA of PC gaming

They're Swedish after all))

 

[Lacrymas]

I'm playing this right now and a lot of things have been changed. F.e., the leader/hero skill trees have been made into actual skill trees you can grasp the complete picture of. However, there is still something off-putting about the whole thing that I can't quite put my finger on. The setting is just too high magic for me and every unit is overdesigned into the ground. Cultures having replaced predefined factions I'm still not on board with. AoW4 is just too random in everything, nowhere will you find any coherency, even neutral stacks are literally just random units taken from literally anywhere. Like there's a Nemesis Mage creature with 3 units with the angelic transformation, 1 small magma elemental and 1 crow. Or a human knight with an undead ratling, a gargoyle and a lightbringer (the strange fish creature that can dominate). While I understand this can lead to varied challenges, the fact you autoresolve 80% of neutral stacks means it's moot anyway and it just servers to showcase how random everything is.

I'm not willing to put a bunch of hours into this game tomorrow and on Monday to properly get into it to see whether these initial impressions are warranted and whether they've at least tried to tackle the balance issues it has (I know for a fact that the Feudal and Dark cultures are unplayably underpowered). All the time while I'm playing there's a nagging thought in the back of my mind saying I could be playing any other AoW title or Conquest of Eo instead and it will be a much better experience for me. The deluge of DLC doesn't make any of this better because it just adds moar random into the mixer instead of adding meaningful content. Oh, and the game is still lacking singleplayer content, it's random maps all the way down.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Yeah, the last time I tried running it (when pseudo-lovecraft expansion dropped) I had the exact same impression. Samey boring mishmash that doesn't pull you in at all and still no interesting mechanics even if you were inclined to ignore the mind warping lack of flavor. I shat on PF so much and still se it as a yuge decline from 3, but I've checked now and I have almost 300h clocked on steam lol. This shite I did like 2 or 3 runs on release, then not even one map when "final" dlc hit and I really don't feel like ever getting back to it. Even the post-launch support went complete ass, PF dlc at least tried to bring some of 3 quality back, in a very limp effort, but still. Here, it's just more of the same crap, because now you will have Spineless Corruptors of Incline on your map, but monkeys instead of moles, fucking yaaaaay. I also have this feeling bordering on certainty that the road map for the dlc (before it turned out it will be more than one "season", because paradox lel) promised doing "something" with water and underground play and is seems fuck all actually happened?

 

[rumSaint]

They obviously want to make it Stellaris-like in the long run, where you can craft your own race of "whatever" and roll with it. Mechanically it's all over the place, but roleplay wise it has it's potential. Feels really shallow tho, as they flattened map, underground is ass, no fucking water combat c'mon.

 

[Fedora Master]

Playing this afflicts me with this sort of "Paradox malaise". The games are all the same and the gameplay is so trite most of the time.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

They obviously want to make it Stellaris-like in the long run, where you can craft your own race of "whatever" and roll with it. Mechanically it's all over the place, but roleplay wise it has it's potential. Feels really shallow tho, as they flattened map, underground is ass, no fucking water combat c'mon.

Then again just because you have the options to create a "completely customized faction" it doesn't mean that everything you face in the game should also be a "big pile of random" as it now.
The issue here isn't really that you don't have traditional dwarves and dark elves, as someone was bitching about, but that you don't have pretty much anything with a distinctive identity.
Every faction you cross in the game is a randomized AND incoherent amalgamation of building blocks.

How friendly they can be toward your race? What type of alignment they tend to go for? How do they look? What type of magic they use? What culture they embrace?
The answer to ALL these questions is "Whatever".
As a result NOTHING of what you come across has any sensible grounding in the lore and setting nor a "gameplay identity".
On top of it, add all the problems with the game simply letting too much stuff stack and hardly ever forcing any faction to any mutually exclusive choice and the end result is that everything you come across feels generic as hell.

 

[Blutwurstritter]

I'm playing this right now and a lot of things have been changed. F.e., the leader/hero skill trees have been made into actual skill trees you can grasp the complete picture of. However, there is still something off-putting about the whole thing that I can't quite put my finger on. The setting is just too high magic for me and every unit is overdesigned into the ground. Cultures having replaced predefined factions I'm still not on board with. AoW4 is just too random in everything, nowhere will you find any coherency, even neutral stacks are literally just random units taken from literally anywhere. Like there's a Nemesis Mage creature with 3 units with the angelic transformation, 1 small magma elemental and 1 crow. Or a human knight with an undead ratling, a gargoyle and a lightbringer (the strange fish creature that can dominate). While I understand this can lead to varied challenges, the fact you autoresolve 80% of neutral stacks means it's moot anyway and it just servers to showcase how random everything is.

I'm not willing to put a bunch of hours into this game tomorrow and on Monday to properly get into it to see whether these initial impressions are warranted and whether they've at least tried to tackle the balance issues it has (I know for a fact that the Feudal and Dark cultures are unplayably underpowered). All the time while I'm playing there's a nagging thought in the back of my mind saying I could be playing any other AoW title or Conquest of Eo instead and it will be a much better experience for me. The deluge of DLC doesn't make any of this better because it just adds moar random into the mixer instead of adding meaningful content. Oh, and the game is still lacking singleplayer content, it's random maps all the way down.

Did you play the story realms? Its not a proper campaign but they worked well enough and actually had somewhat coherent settings. But I don't know if that got messed up by the new content and changes since release.

 

[Lacrymas]

Did you play the story realms? Its not a proper campaign but they worked well enough and actually had somewhat coherent settings. But I don't know if that got messed up by the new content and changes since release.

I played them when the game first came out and I was thoroughly unimpressed. It's random maps again with preset victory conditions.

 

[Lacrymas]

Here's w0t I think from the limited time I spent on a small map with 2 other leaders on the highest difficulty today. If you don't savescum, the game is pretty challenging. You can get into a situation in which the opponent hardcounters your army and you can lose bad even if the AI doesn't use its troops to the fullest extent. It still has a tendency to blob up and you can decimate it with AoE attacks, but it's doing that less frequently than before. I didn't play enough to find out what the AI's glaring weakness in tactical combat is, so YMMV. However, is this worth slogging through the entire rest of the game? I don't think so. A lot of 4X games are very challenging if you don't savescum, including AoW3, so playing one with 0 identity isn't my idea of time well spent. There are just more coherent 4X games out there imo, but this one offers a create-your-own-experience style that you won't find anywhere else, so it's up to you.

For what's it worth, I don't think it's done very well because mixing and matching tomes and cultures leads to aesthetic clashes first of all and second of all there is an incentive to stack the same kinds of damage and modifiers because a lot of effects are triggered only from certain damage types. I don't see how a rainbow build can work well. There are just too many damage types and too many tome types that add very specific mechanics that only work with themselves or tomes of the same affinity, so taking others makes it harder to get a build going. Conquest of Eo does this better because magic isn't so myopic and there are only 4 damage types (physical, death, white and elemental), so a lot of units go together and spell schools support a variety of armies. If you want a modern AoW-like focused on singleplayer and good tactical combat, I recommend Conquest of Eo over AoW4.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I recommend Conquest of Eo over AoW4.

Disgusting. All you can play as is mages.

 

[Lagi]

Lacrymas Whats your opinion about Fallen Enchantress?
https://store.steampowered.com/app/228260/Fallen_Enchantress_Legendary_Heroes/

 

[Lacrymas]

Lacrymas Whats your opinion about Fallen Enchantress?
https://store.steampowered.com/app/228260/Fallen_Enchantress_Legendary_Heroes/

I've never played it because I've seen only negative opinions and reports that the AI is broken iirc.

 

[rumSaint]

Lacrymas Whats your opinion about Fallen Enchantress?
https://store.steampowered.com/app/228260/Fallen_Enchantress_Legendary_Heroes/

Despite all it's flaws it's pretty good. I replay it from time to time.

There are multiple ways to play and 3 type of cities approach is really cool. Towns for money, Fortresses for military and College (i think it was called like that) for magic and magic enchanted units and research. The combat is rather fast and tactical battles doesn't take ages. The way the world is built also encourages exploration and fighting neutrals. It remind me a bit of HoMM3. It has it cozy approach to fantasy with light and dark.

The flaws:
- You can build everything in cities and there is like no reason not to
- AI is sometimes totally retarded, like really really bad, but occasionally it can put up a fight, dunno what it depends on, for sure it cannot play dlc necro race for shit
- Snowballing really breaks game imo, sometimes you get a good item and you can fuck over everybody
- No water gameplay at all
- There is no reason to build other heroes than mage specialization

 

[Seethe]

Man these Paradox games are a distilled mediocrity, IKEA of PC gaming

It's kind of amazing, isn't it? They keep pouring in new stuff into the game, but they still managed to make it all feel the same. Game is rotten to the core with its blandness, I am surprised I've put 80 hours into it but honestly I cannot care anymore. It's all stacking modifiers and numbers, but with different icons and VFX. Paradox clearly had more influence on the game than I initially thought.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

AI is sometimes totally retarded, like really really bad, but occasionally it can put up a fight, dunno what it depends on, for sure it cannot play dlc necro race for shit

I found the tactical ai to be smarter than the strategic one but yeah, it's also easy to design units that completely break the game. Like a full army of wolf riding axemen. They will close fights in a single round.

There is no reason to build other heroes than mage specialization

Warriors are plenty viable though

 

[rumSaint]

I found the tactical ai to be smarter than the strategic one but yeah, it's also easy to design units that completely break the game. Like a full army of wolf riding axemen. They will close fights in a single round.

Yeah tactical is pretty decent, most likely due to less variables. Strategic on the other hand. Additional thing is neutrals usually don't even attack you opponent factions.

Warriors are plenty viable though

Well, to some extent. When you get some nice gear and maul ability they you will rock, but usually you will have super overpowered melee units which are even stronger than heroes.

 

[Lacrymas]

Neutrals do attack your opponents. In the single game I played during the free weekend neutrals even killed one of my opponents once. Also, yes, the game is bland and revolves around stacking modifiers and immunities to hardcounter your opponent, I'd sooner play Planetfall than this.

 

[Lacrymas]

There's so much wrong with this I don't even know where to begin -


First of all, the battlefield is unreadable, the units are so overdesigned it has lost any semblance of coherency and identity. Second of all, his *entire* army is on the same flying mount, it's all the same unit! The map is also so tiny there's barely any room for the army and all they do is blob up. Awful, I don't know how people like this slop.

 

[Rieser]

There's so much wrong with this I don't even know where to begin -


First of all, the battlefield is unreadable, the units are so overdesigned it has lost any semblance of coherency and identity. Second of all, his *entire* army is on the same flying mount, it's all the same unit! The map is also so tiny there's barely any room for the army and all they do is blob up. Awful, I don't know how people like this slop.

All I could think about was the editing stressing me out.

 

[Fedora Master]

Potato also loves Nu-Civ. Must be some sort of neurodivergence in certain people.
These games are really odd somehow. As I said, I get this feeling of tedium when trying to engage with them, despite the games objectively being well made. (Mostly...)
For one, games on a standard map just take way too long to finish. Doubly so on higher difficulties when the AI will just shit out stack after stack after stack. Can you kill them? Sure. But it's like crushing vermin, it's not engaging. Autoresolve is not an option.

Compare this to, say, the Dominions series which ALSO tends to devolve into bonking endless AI armies, yet is somehow more engaging. Plus the nations in Dom all have tons of flavor. In AoW4 (or Stellaris) you have a billion options to create your own playstyle, yet in the end you do the same shit regardless.

 

[Lagi]

I agree that AoW4 is a wearing game. I don't have the will to download aow4, and play it, just to check if the tactical combat is really as bad as you are claiming.


Below (1:12:00 , seems time stamp is not working on dex) is a showcase of a mod to AoW4. Where you create a skirmish combat of more or less equal forces (that you never achieve from normal strategic gameplay). Both dudes are from some community - so they know what they are doing - which is bad, because if there is one thing that i hate in games, it's meta knowledge that kill for me all the desire to play it. They pregenerate 3 full stack (=18 units), obviously mod have some rules that force you to take some lower tier units, or that you cannot cast some spells.

At first look, the presentation of the battlefield looks very inviting. Enough of diverse forces to be able to make some mistake/sacrifices. Yeah looks a bit unreadable when zoom out. But all in all, it makes me want to issue some orders.

This charm disappear immediately when you start the video. The video is speed up (2x?) as you can tell from the pitch of player voices. And it's still boring to follow. That tell you what a snail pace of this game is in multi. A chess game is probably more exciting. but its an issue from playing PvP, not the game itself. When i play in single, i enjoy the game vs AI, because all actions are taken immediately - and it really feels like a battle.

If you look past that, then you notice there are different spells being cast, there is a variety of different attacks going on (oh how i wish to have such sophisticated areal attack in aow1 (and AI)).

And most important, despite different level tier of units, there is no situation when one late tier unit, one shot another. Which is very good, it makes viable to cast debuffs/buffs. I encounter way too often when one elite unit just annihilate turn by turn my whole army (or vice versa, my late tier dragon on all possible steroids is killing all opposition in single turn).

Lacrymas is right: "lost any semblance of coherency and identity". But I still find hex-map minigame, more enjoyable in 4. AOW3 combat have stupidly powerful heroes melee charge, and make lower tiers redundant (i want my blocks of infantry!!).
I didnt play planet fall.