Game News Age of Decadence Released on Steam Early Access

[Zeriel]

Holy shit the comments on that 1/5 review are starting to get really good.

Now I'm really interested in this game. This game has to be fucking sharp to make a casual bleed this much.

 

[Infinitron]

If skill checks didn't eventually require 10s, why would you even be able to raise your skills to 10 in the first place?

Some would. Not all. The game has three different cities, and AFAIK the game is open and you can visit them in any order. So, if you've grown powerful in Teron and Maadoran and the final stretch of your game is in Ganezzar, I would assume the skill checks there haven't been "scaled to your level". Some of them will be easy for you.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Eh, I hacked the demo a while back to see how easy it would be with 10 in every stat and I still died if I didn't think. I rather doubt the last 40% of the game will suddenly turn a cakewalk. BG and Geneforge get you so powerful that it was almost impossible to lose a fight. Heck, in BG EACH CHARACTER could beat the game singlehandedly and you have a party of 6. :O

I'm not talking just about the fights though. Actually, more about the skill checks. Are the late game skill checks "inflated" so you always need straight 10s despite it not making sense? If not, your character may eventually reach a point where he can pass every check of a skill he's invested in without any worries. Then he can start expanding into other skills. Etc.

Ah, I thought you meant combat difficulty. Skillchecks aren't even an issue for me. If you fail, you fail. Move on and accept the consequences or try and find some other way around it. Like the Feng streetwise check, or not being able to become the chosen one because you lack intelligence - whatever, so sad, move on. It teaches them to plan ahead next time. Want to not be conned? Streetwise. Want to be a master manipulator? Well, maybe you should be smart, hmm? Accept the fact that one character can't do everything and live with it. "Maybe next time.", is a good way of looking at it.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

I think the difficulty of the first town is about right. Players who have built a crappy character (eg, 10 strg, 10 dex, 4con...and everything into the merchant skill, cuz I'm a merchant!) should see early on that their character sucks my balls and needs to be redone. It's not like they have to get halfway through the game for it.

People don't like redoing their character. It's like saying their choices were wrong, and in that case where's the freedom???

I'd suggest hints in the chargen screen telling you what skills a class would be expected to have, and such.

Really, so long as players are told beforehand how hard it will be, I don't see a problem. Just communicate it in all your marketing.

It just needs to be sold as a retro Dark Souls. Reviewers were told that they were supposed to die in Dark Souls, all the cool kids were having fun dying, then suddenly dying all the time became a plus.

Hmmm...

Spoiler

I just wanted to post this ad. It's so cheesy, I love it

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

I think the difficulty of the first town is about right. Players who have built a crappy character (eg, 10 strg, 10 dex, 4con...and everything into the merchant skill, cuz I'm a merchant!) should see early on that their character sucks my balls and needs to be redone. It's not like they have to get halfway through the game for it.

People don't like redoing their character. It's like saying their choices were wrong, and in that case where's the freedom???

Their choices were wrong and they are free to die and start again. :D

I'd suggest hints in the chargen screen telling you what skills a class would be expected to have, and such.

I agree.

edit: There should be a pop up when you first choose your background and also come with an "automatically distribute my skill points" button.

 

[Black]

Holy shit the comments on that 1/5 review are starting to get really good.

Now I'm really interested in this game. This game has to be fucking sharp to make a casual bleed this much.

Even /v/ managed to have a decent (for its standards) thread about AoD and how ridiculous that review is.
AoD is going places!

 

[Metro]

Sure, sure, he's a big purist now but just give it ten years when Age of Decadence 3 comes out as an FPS ARPG.

 

[Irenaeus]

As long as it have collar-grabbing action I promise not to abandon the franchise!

 

[Lhynn]

Sure, sure, he's a big purist now but just give it ten years when Age of Decadence 3 comes out as an TP-ARPG QTE fest.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

As long as it have collar-grabbing action I promise not to abandon the franchise!

As long as it have collar-grabbing action I promise not to abandon the franchise!

Feint is pretty much collar-grabbing right now.

 

[hiver]

I'd suggest hints in the chargen screen telling you what skills a class would be expected to have, and such.

I agree.

edit: There should be a pop up when you first choose your background and also come with an "automatically distribute my skill points" button.

Dont attributes align points automatically depending on background you choose?

isnt that enough?

You want skill points to automatically distribute too? whats the point of designing an RPG then at all? Eh?
What if those points arent distributed in the way some popamoler like clocky here would want? What then? Crying and complaints about how the game is intentionally cheating?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I'd suggest hints in the chargen screen telling you what skills a class would be expected to have, and such.

I agree.

edit: There should be a pop up when you first choose your background and also come with an "automatically distribute my skill points" button.

Dont attributes align points automatically depending on background you choose?

isnt that enough?

You want skill points to automatically distribute too? whats the point of designing an RPG then at all? Eh?
What if those points arent distributed in the way some popamoler like clocky here would want? What then? Crying and complaints about how the game is intentionally cheating?

It's probably best to just let the player make his own mistakes. Not anybody's headache if said play is not a learning animal.
Besides, anyone who chooses to go heavy-armour+dodge is definitely getting what's coming to 'em.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I think the difficulty of the first town is about right. Players who have built a crappy character (eg, 10 strg, 10 dex, 4con...and everything into the merchant skill, cuz I'm a merchant!) should see early on that their character sucks my balls and needs to be redone. It's not like they have to get halfway through the game for it.

People don't like redoing their character. It's like saying their choices were wrong, and in that case where's the freedom???

So any choice no matter how retarded should be equally viable? What if you play a fighter but put a single point into a weapon skill? Should we honor that too? After all, it's your choice!

I'd suggest hints in the chargen screen telling you what skills a class would be expected to have, and such.

Jesus Fucking Christ.

Do you need to be told that a merchant should have trading, persuasion, streetwise, and etiquette? Cause these are the main skills. Or that assassin should be good at killing targets fast (CS)? Or that a thief who wants to be a highwayman should be good at fighting and a thief who wants to be minimize combat should have disguise, stealing, sneaking, talking his way out of trouble, and such? It's not exactly rocket science.

The whole meta-gaming thing only become an issue when you want to get more content, content that lies outside of your character's domain. Then you need to know that putting a point here and a point there will unlock something extra for you.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I'm not talking about combat encounters which you can indeed get better at. But all the CYOA sequences which are handcrafted, there's no minigame to get better at there. Only way to improve is to learn by trial and error what thresholds different checks have. This is definitely not a good type of challenge to have as too harsh. Comparing it to a roguelike or Dark Souls is ridiculous. The games strengths are still squarely in the storyfag RPG field.

It really is hard to fail if you put some thoughts into your build. What you gain though are all the options you get and the effect on the gameworld, so you think need to think twice of how to handle things.

For example, letting the IG survivors join House Daratan or have them killed. What's better for your guild, for House Daratan, for the town? Etc.

Yeah, difficulty slider would destroy all your artistic integrity, void all the fun you've had during the creation process, totally not worth the extra sales and increased chances to stay in the business.

It's not about my artistic integrity.

The difficulty level is part of the setting. It defines the setting to a certain degree and contributes to role-playing. If you can kill anything that moves, then you never have a real choice between fighting and walking away or making a deal, never have a reason to regret your decisions, or to think twice when making them.

In most games when bandits stop you, you know that you will kill them all in the blink of an eye. So, when they say 'your money or your life!' you don't take it seriously. It's all make believe. You wink and say "please take my money but don't kill me" if you feel like larping. When you're ambushed, it's Christmas that came early. Your only concern is whether or not they drop good loot.

We went a different way and we don't expect everyone to like what we did.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Also, a lot of gripes seem to come from the many skillchecks and the metagaming required to win them. However, I think that's more of a player mindset problem than anything. People want to pop that mole. They want to win every little challenge. AoD isn't a game like that. AoD is a cruel bitch of a game. You never get the feel of - I'm godlike and can take on anything. It's the complete opposite of power-fantasy games like Geneforge or BG in which the player character ultimately becomes an unstoppable bad ass feared by all.

Precisely.

 

[hiver]

The whole meta-gaming thing only become an issue when you want to get more content, content that lies outside of your character's domain. Then you need to know that putting a point here and a point there will unlock something extra for you.

I just want to make it clear that my suggestions about this issue are basically about making it all better, not less relevant or something else.
Of course i dont really know huge amounts of details of how everything works inside like you guys so i keep myself to just seeing how things play out in the game itself and suggesting what seems like a good idea to me.

I ran into several things i cannot do with my builds - and thats fine. Of course i will try to somehow squeeze a few points more or redistribute them differently to get some skill check that is so maddeningly close... just within my reach - but i dont want this to be removed, made easier or turned into something else.

Ill try and try and try - and try. But if i cannot make it then ill gladly leave it for the next time, next build.

 

[Infinitron]

Vault Dweller I don't think people want "easy". They want "hard, but not TOO hard". Problem is, I think the way your game is designed, that's a balance that's very difficult to achieve. The line between "overwhelmingly difficult" and "cakewalk" may be very thin.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Do you need to be told that a merchant should have trading, persuasion, streetwise, and etiquette? Cause these are the main skills. Or that assassin should be good at killing targets fast (CS)? Or that a thief who wants to be a highwayman should be good at fighting and a thief who wants to be minimize combat should have disguise, stealing, sneaking, talking his way out of trouble, and such? It's not exactly rocket science.

No, but even smart people today are very, very stupid. Some hint as to the point distribution would be better than none. Most people are used to the start of a game being VERY forgiving and not having to pay attention as to what skill goes where - even so called "hardcore RPGers". We can thank Skyrim, BG, and even Fallout for that.

 

[hiver]

That doesnt need to be ingame at all. And stupidity should not be encouraged, especially for smart people.

Im going to write a small, very simple and direct "AoD for absolute beginners" guide and that should be enough to get people going.

 

[Lhynn]

I think the difficulty of the first town is about right. Players who have built a crappy character (eg, 10 strg, 10 dex, 4con...and everything into the merchant skill, cuz I'm a merchant!) should see early on that their character sucks my balls and needs to be redone. It's not like they have to get halfway through the game for it.

People don't like redoing their character. It's like saying their choices were wrong, and in that case where's the freedom???

So any choice no matter how retarded should be equally viable? What if you play a fighter but put a single point into a weapon skill? Should we honor that too? After all, it's your choice!

I'd suggest hints in the chargen screen telling you what skills a class would be expected to have, and such.

Jesus Fucking Christ.

Do you need to be told that a merchant should have trading, persuasion, streetwise, and etiquette? Cause these are the main skills. Or that assassin should be good at killing targets fast (CS)? Or that a thief who wants to be a highwayman should be good at fighting and a thief who wants to be minimize combat should have disguise, stealing, sneaking, talking his way out of trouble, and such? It's not exactly rocket science.

The whole meta-gaming thing only become an issue when you want to get more content, content that lies outside of your character's domain. Then you need to know that putting a point here and a point there will unlock something extra for you.

What this game needs tho, is a small tutorial demostrating all the skills usage, just for the mentally disabled, it will shut up a lot of the stupid complains.
My advice, just offer a 15-20 mins easy, optional tutorial of your arrival to the city, a encounter where you get to use almost every skill in the game, with some ultra easy and easy checks, with success and failures to teach people that putting points into something does reward you, and that failing isnt the end of the world.

What i mean is the learning curve is kind of steep and the difficulty is high for any non specialized characters doing what hes good at (even then, sometimes luck will just fuck you over) or if you truly know what you are doing, and you are asking that from your player within the 15 mins of the game, this can be a bit overwhelming and could lead to someone quitting the game before even truly giving it a chance.

 

[Irenaeus]

Never compromise, VD, even in the face of Armageddon.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

People don't like redoing their character. It's like saying their choices were wrong, and in that case where's the freedom???

So any choice no matter how retarded should be equally viable? What if you play a fighter but put a single point into a weapon skill? Should we honor that too? After all, it's your choice!

I thought the excess of "?" made it obvious

I'd suggest hints in the chargen screen telling you what skills a class would be expected to have, and such.

Jesus Fucking Christ.

Do you need to be told that a merchant should have trading, persuasion, streetwise, and etiquette? Cause these are the main skills. Or that assassin should be good at killing targets fast (CS)? Or that a thief who wants to be a highwayman should be good at fighting and a thief who wants to be minimize combat should have disguise, stealing, sneaking, talking his way out of trouble, and such? It's not exactly rocket science.

The whole meta-gaming thing only become an issue when you want to get more content, content that lies outside of your character's domain. Then you need to know that putting a point here and a point there will unlock something extra for you.

Yeah, not rocket science, but something like a "This skill is mainly useful for merchants and thieves" note at the end of Streetwise's skill description is not that fucking offensive and should help people to not fall into the trap of neglecting it in favor of others that have more obvious uses, like Trading.

Never compromise, VD, even in the face of Armageddon.

We know how well that worked out for him.

in before

 

[made]

I'll wait for a full version that I can pirate

I don't even wanna play it, but I'll help you seed. xD

 

[Vault Dweller]

Vault Dweller I don't think people want "easy". They want "hard, but not TOO hard". Problem is, I think the way your game is designed, that's a balance that's very difficult to achieve. The line between "overwhelmingly difficult" and "cakewalk" may be very thin.

Here is how I see it.

We've been through it twice - combat demo and the first full demo. People try, people fail, people ask what the fuck is this unbalanced shit (we've lost Skyway this way :never forget: ), people bitch and move on. Some people keep on playing, learn the system, and discover - drum rolls, please - that the game is not TOO hard. Then they go and ironman it to make a point.

So, the issue, as it appears to me, is that some people want to succeed now! As the reviewer said, he doesn't want to master systems, he wants to play! Fucking adorable when you're 8. Not so adorable when you're a bit older.

 

[Fryjar]

Jesus Fucking Christ.

Do you need to be told that a merchant should have trading, persuasion, streetwise, and etiquette? Cause these are the main skills. Or that assassin should be good at killing targets fast (CS)? Or that a thief who wants to be a highwayman should be good at fighting and a thief who wants to be minimize combat should have disguise, stealing, sneaking, talking his way out of trouble, and such? It's not exactly rocket science.

The whole meta-gaming thing only become an issue when you want to get more content, content that lies outside of your character's domain. Then you need to know that putting a point here and a point there will unlock something extra for you.

To be honest, considering that in 99.9% of all rpgs, you can succeed with a jack of all trades that does everything in one playthrough, you will have lots of players that mess up because they go in with the same mindset to AoD.
Sure it is clear where a merchant or loremaster should be good at, but many probably think that they can put enough points in other areas as well, such as combat, which is what other rpgs taught them.
Therefore I also think that it would indeed be a good idea to implement a "recommend" button in char generation for each build + a pop up that clearly states that you should not focus on more than x skills at the beginning, spreading your skills too thinly is not viable, and most importantly, that you can't create a viable combat character which is at the same time a diplomat (which again pretty much every single rpg allows you, so you can't fault people for trying the same thing in AoD).

Same goes for actually walking away from hard fights. This is just something people are not used to and in case they are failing, they think that they are doing something wrong, because surely the game can't expect you to skip a challenging encounter. This would be a good idea for a loading screen recommendation (or maybe a pop up in case you encounter the first time a fight, were many builds are expected to dodge it). Again, the crucial part is here again to communicate to the players what kind of game AoD is and I'm sure, if this is done properly, the goodwill towards a lot of these design approaches would increase alot.