Interview "A lot of faith, and a good head for risk": How two men risked their livelihoods for a new Torment

[Sodafish]

Can someone post it on BSN? I wanna see the butthurt flow.

Done
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/13/index/15532880/4#16325925

Wow, a whole hour and no end of rine yet.

 

[Roguey]

No one cares. Not even Laidlaw. https://twitter.com/Mike_Laidlaw/status/313869738776334336

 

[Infinitron]

No one cares. Not even Laidlaw. https://twitter.com/Mike_Laidlaw/status/313869738776334336

Hey, Roguey. If DA3 gets cancelled by the new EA management, do you think we might see some of the remaining Bioware veterans spinning off their own company, same way as Obsidian was founded from the exiles of Black Isle? "Pulling an Avellone", as TUN calls it.

 

[Roguey]

No one cares. Not even Laidlaw. https://twitter.com/Mike_Laidlaw/status/313869738776334336

Hey, Roguey. If DA3 gets cancelled by the new EA management, do you think we might see some of the remaining Bioware veterans spinning off their own company, same way as Obsidian was founded from the exiles of Black Isle? "Pulling an Avellone", as TUN calls it.

Beats me. Maybe some of them would, like the Banner Saga people. Edmonton has over 300 employees so it's not like most of them are going to stick together. The Sith Lords was made by about 30 people.

 

[tuluse]

Oh man, I would love to see a Gaider/Laidlaw kickstarter.

 

[Infinitron]

Oh man, I would love to see a Gaider/Laidlaw kickstarter.

Hey, if Gaider promised to make a BG2 spiritual successor I'd even donate. Romances and all. Let's see what the man can do, unshackled by consoles and voice acting.

 

[Stabwound]

Gaider already promised to make a BG2 spiritual successor, and it was Dragon Age.

He's done some good writing, but I feel like he's way too far into the Bioware pit now for there to be any hope. Dragon Age is a turd in every way, right down to the setting itself.

 

[Zed]

Let's see what the man can do, unshackled by consoles and voice acting.

A shitty, silent, PC-exclusive romance sim?

 

[Western]

Oh man, I would love to see a Gaider/Laidlaw kickstarter.

Hey, if Gaider promised to make a BG2 spiritual successor I'd even donate. Romances and all. Let's see what the man can do, unshackled by consoles and voice acting.

No thanks good sir. http://goldenpigsy.blogspot.com.au/2011/11/dragon-age-calling-review.html

 

[FeelTheRads]

Oh man, I would love to see a Gaider/Laidlaw kickstarter.

Hey, if Gaider promised to make a BG2 spiritual successor I'd even donate. Romances and all. Let's see what the man can do, unshackled by consoles and voice acting.

No thanks good sir. http://goldenpigsy.blogspot.com.au/2011/11/dragon-age-calling-review.html

As readers of The Stolen Throne will recall, the Deep Roads were already the location for the most boring portion of David Gaider’s first novel.

What the fuck is with those Deep Roads? Why can't they let them go? Apparently they suck whether they're in a game or in a book.

Is it the roads or is it Gaider?

 

[Roguey]

The Deep Roads weren't worse than any other location in DA2. They had some nice colors too. Volourn loves 'em cause dwarves.

 

[jiujitsu]

My gametes won't stop flowing. Their intermolecular forces are strong.

 

[evdk]

The Deep Roads weren't worse than any other location in DA2.

That's still a nadir of creativity.

 

[Roguey]

The Deep Roads weren't worse than any other location in DA2.

That's still a nadir of creativity.

Why do you think I phrased it like that?

The combat was still more enjoyable than Torment's though.

 

[Moribund]

I'm shocked roguey didn't point out that the funding level ground to a halt as soon as they put mitsoda up as a goal. It will laugh if it picks up again after the 2.75 million mark is made.

I don't think anyone expected this level of support right off the bat, but I don't think anyone thought it would really fail (thought it might not have been so bad if it had failed, and led to a TB do over). But I wonder too what will be needed for them to really have "success" at funding. And with the talk in this thread about "WE MAY NOT BE ABLE TO MATCH YOUR OFFER FROM ANOTHER COMPANY" I wonder what they are making. Remember this money could go to grimoire or who knows what else might come along.

 

[Roguey]

I wouldn't do that because I know we're in the lull that all of them go through. But it is true that Mitsoda isn't even remotely close to being the kind of cult of personality pledge-increasing name Avellone is and I heard this annoys him.

 

[tuluse]

Does Mitsoda have serious design credits for any completed game besides Bloodlines?

 

[Roguey]

Does Mitsoda have serious design credits for any completed game besides Bloodlines?

Nope, like Sawyer he has a canceled-game curse. TORN, Seven Dwarves, Alpha Protocol (well, his version of that was axed by Avellone himself)...

 

[Longshanks]

"We put in a lot of pass/fail checks in dialogue menus" doesn't tell me how reactive the story is since one can make a very reactive game without such things (Alpha Protocol) or a very boring game with them (Storm of Zehir).

And I'm telling you that how reactive "the story" is isn't all there is to reactivity. Narrative reactivity/CYOA is just a subset of reactivity.

Checks based on stats/skills are not necessarily better than narrative decisions made by the player (depends on execution), but they are a better starting point for an RPG as they reference the character, which is the central point of an RPG. Putting aside quality of execution, checks that reference the character objectively trump player-centric narrative decisions for an RPG.

 

[Kosmonaut]

[..] During that time [Saunders] received another job offer, and brought it to Fargo to see if inXile could match it. He was told it was dependent on the success of the Kickstarter. The worst case scenario is that he could continue on through the month for health insurance. [...]

[...] McComb hadn’t been taking a salary until the Kickstarter, he was in the project because he wanted to make the game

It's pretty disappointing that Fargo went all Scrooge with several Torment key developers (including, I suppose, Brother None). This isn't a fan-made project, we are talking about a company with another previous successful Kickstarter proyect and with some more money from Bard's Tale sales. Not to mention that Fargo was willing, and in fact did give 100K from his own money to the ToN proyect.

Well, I think that as usual, Fargo gonna Fargo. Sigh... Time to cancel my 5 dorra pledge.

 

[Moribund]

Well it rushed up to george ziet's then stopped dead, which gave me a laugh. I think this time most people must have been ready with their cc # right from the start and it's probably got all it will get for now, though.

I hope he doesn't compare himself to MCA It took a long time for him to get that status, and torment has become that game ever reviewer and dev has to dredge up and call a favorite to get the Kool Kid Kredits.

Also I'm sure guys like Guido Henkel had a lot to do with its success, as well. To bad Henkel seems to be a bit of a weenie as far as wooing the public and figuring out what people are going to fund. I'd be interested to see how much of that torment success was due to him, presumably the whole RoA series mostly was due to him? Or were there other people who did a lot of the ideas, writing, etc. ?

 

[Kosmonaut]

As long as Guido don't make a game as shitty as this, I'm happy.

 

[Brother None]

It's pretty disappointing that Fargo went all Scrooge with several Torment key developers (including, I suppose, Brother None). This isn't a fan-made project, we are talking about a company with another previous successful Kickstarter proyect and with some more money from Bard's Tale sales. Not to mention that Fargo was willing, and in fact did give 100K from his own money to the ToN proyect.

He couldn't pay anyone on the Torment team from the Wasteland 2 budget, that's all for Wasteland 2. The Bard's Tale helped but I don't think that money was there when this team started gathering. And yes, I'm being paid less now than I will be post-Kickstarter too (by about half). I can't speak for Colin, but in my case I proposed that myself, knowing the budget will be pretty tight pre-KS.

 

[jewboy]

Gaider already promised to make a BG2 spiritual successor, and it was Dragon Age.

He's done some good writing, but I feel like he's way too far into the Bioware pit now for there to be any hope. Dragon Age is a turd in every way, right down to the setting itself.

Sadly, this is true. I can sympathize with Infinitron's sentiment though. I'd like to think that Gayder didn't really want to squeeze out the shit that was Dragon Age and Mess Effect and that if he had his own kickstarter project he would like to make a genuine BG2 sequel, perhaps just switching the engine and spinning some shitty new story. Gayder never was much of a writer. Both Baldur's Gate games had truly awful story telling. The story only existed as the glue to hold together the best RtWP combat I've ever seen in a computer game. If he did do a solo kickstarter I would hope he would at least try to hire a real writer to write the dialogue. He's probably a half decent combat designer when he isn't going for twitch popamole, at least if BG2 was any sign.

 

[jewboy]

The Deep Roads weren't worse than any other location in DA2.

That's still a nadir of creativity.

Why do you think I phrased it like that?

The combat was still more enjoyable than Torment's though.

I don't think I've ever really understood the meaning of the word blasphemy until now. How anyone who isn't a vegetable could stand more than a few moments of those boring, repetitive, endless waves of generic_fantasy_mole warping in out of nowhere for no apparent reason is beyond my understanding. Truly the only explanation I can think of us the loss of higher brain functions. Updated my journal.