Decline Your Most Hated Gameplay Elements? (poll)

[Hobo Elf]

Going to new towns is effortlessly my least favorite (gameplay) element in an RPG. Most of the time it's just a giant chore where all you do is walk around looking for NPCs to exhaust dialogue options with in hopes that they have a quest for you. Sometimes I just wish more games took the Wizardry 1 route of making towns a quick menu based screen so you can do your business and move on to the interesting stuff (dungeon exploration and combat). Maybe it's less immersive, but so far the only thing exploring big towns has immersed me in is the tourist experience of walking around aimless and lost.

 

[Apostle Hand]

encumbrance

 

[mondblut]

But the assumption, that many devs seem to have, that it always should be done, regardless of gameplay impact, is dumb.

What "many devs"? Most devs don't bother, and the few games that actually dared to are constantly attacked for not having every button cause something awesome to happen.

Even bethesda itself went on to do spoonfed theme parks 20 fucking years ago, yet people are still hurt that Daggerfall has happened. Not every house is a source or target of a quest, how dared they?

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

Well, somebody translated this thread's results on russian retarded reddit-like website called dtf.

First, here's the poll's results sorted by votes: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...ge-DRvlHTa4cuFHiis2wViBefmLHgqJYoWULG/pubhtml

Secondly, these redditors left 170 comments. Here's some of them, put on your protective glasses or other gear, gentlemen:

Tldr - "we hate everything that makes RPGs RPGs"

> "17: Timers that punish exploration"
> "37: Quests with timers"
That's why I dropped Fallout 2.

I've read half the list and it looks like the ideal rpg is an online arena shooter, like unreal tornament

[The thing I hate most in RPGs] is a magic system that lets you cast something a number of times, and then you have to rest.

Cubes! Where's a mention of d20 and all that shit in the list?

...

I didn't bother translating it, but worth mentioning: there was also a long gibberish post defending level scaling.

 

[Wunderbar]

The average DTF poster thinks that Disco Elysium is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

The average DTF poster thinks that Disco Elysium is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

And it is.

 

[Darth Canoli]

The average DTF poster thinks that Disco Elysium is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

What a coincidence!
Are they from the Codex?

 

[Larianshill]

And it is.

Disco Elysium has a lot of things from this very poll, such as railroading and false choices.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

And it is.

Disco Elysium has a lot of things from this very poll, such as railroading and false choices.

Can you give some examples?

 

[Larianshill]

It doesn't really matter what you do, the game will follow the exact same story beats. You can tell the Hardie Boys that you'll side with the tribunal, but you can't. You can become an unwitting pawn to Claire, feeding Joyce information - or not, but the outcome is the same (Joyce leaves, Claire wins). You can never catch the real killer until it's too late, because the game arbitrarily forbids you from exploring every possible point the shot could have originated from. You can not retrieve your gun through any other means that working with Claire - but I suppose it would be foolish for the protagonist to do any detective work in a detective game. You can make a variety of builds, lean into being a cold, soulless logic machine, or a hobo who is attuned to the soul of the city, but then you are railroaded into the Shivers check that mandatorily makes your character a city shaman - again, doing any actual detective work is not an option. You will always get shot in the leg and fall during the Tribunal, which is why the armored pants don't exist in the game - because then you wouldn't be shot.
Do I need to keep going?

There is one sole thing that matters in DE, and it's whether or not you make the Authority check during the tribunal - the ending can be slightly different depending on whether you succeed or fail. Everything else is just an illusion of choice.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

The average DTF poster thinks that Disco Elysium is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

What a coincidence!
Are they from the Codex?

We need more rus)) on the 'dex to repel the Polish menace.

 

[Larianshill]

One more example, one of the biggest false choices in the game concerns the Racist Lorry Driver. When you talk to him, you can pretend (or "pretend") to be racist in order to get on his good side, because your skills will suggest you might fish for information that way. The only purpose for the Racist Lorry Driver is to be an NPC in the drug trade sidequest, he gives you a lead on Ruby. The only way to get this information from him is to intimidate him with Half-Light together with Kim - although the game gives you a dialogue option to press on your racist bond and remind him that you're brothers in arms, it doesn't work, and you're railroaded into the intimidation route.
So, doing this doesn't actually result in any gameplay changes whatsoever, and the game lies to you about your options.

 

[Darth Canoli]

We need more rus)) on the 'dex to repel the Polish menace.

Wait, did I miss something?
Are the poles the ones threatening to use nuclear weapons now?

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Wait, did I miss something?
Are the poles the ones threatening to use nuclear weapons now?

Nah, just spamming the Shoutbox as usual and fapping to gore in the war thread.

 

[POOPERSCOOPER]

Hacking minigames by far. It's one of the things that ruined the new Deus Ex games, completely stops the game so you can play an inferior mobile game. I want to sneak and fuck shit up not take a pause and play some time waster bull shit.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

It doesn't really matter what you do, the game will follow the exact same story beats. You can tell the Hardie Boys that you'll side with the tribunal, but you can't. You can become an unwitting pawn to Claire, feeding Joyce information - or not, but the outcome is the same (Joyce leaves, Claire wins). You can never catch the real killer until it's too late, because the game arbitrarily forbids you from exploring every possible point the shot could have originated from. You can not retrieve your gun through any other means that working with Claire - but I suppose it would be foolish for the protagonist to do any detective work in a detective game. You can make a variety of builds, lean into being a cold, soulless logic machine, or a hobo who is attuned to the soul of the city, but then you are railroaded into the Shivers check that mandatorily makes your character a city shaman - again, doing any actual detective work is not an option. You will always get shot in the leg and fall during the Tribunal, which is why the armored pants don't exist in the game - because then you wouldn't be shot.
Do I need to keep going?

There is one sole thing that matters in DE, and it's whether or not you make the Authority check during the tribunal - the ending can be slightly different depending on whether you succeed or fail. Everything else is just an illusion of choice.

Can Kim be killed or maybe more minor characters during the tribunal?

You make it sound like there's no choice anywhere, but I'm disinclined to think that.

All CYOA or RPGs work in the same way:

(I drew this myself in Miro, it's a dope tool)

So you're describing it like it's ONLY false choices in DE. But is it, really?

I can name any game, like say PST, and say "You promise to save Dionara, or you can LIE to her saying that you'll save her, or you can refuse. But in the end, you can't do any of those". It doesn't make PST a bad game, there's C&C *elsewhere* in it.

Wouldn't you say that DE has C&C *elsewhere*?

 

[Larianshill]

Kim can be wounded during the tribunal, which results in him being potentially replaced by another character during the final sequence. Even then, the ending is not that different - the second tribunal is just a bit meaner to you. A bunch of other characters can also potentially die during the tribunal, but they are so minor and irrelevant, they're not even worth mentioning.

So you're describing it like it's ONLY false choices in DE. But is it, really?

In my opinion, the only real choice that impacts the game in a meaningful way only came in the Complete Edition or whatever - your political alignment determines what kind of an optinal sidequest you can get. If this was in the base game, and instead of one mutually exclusive quest there would be a couple, and if they impacted the ending in some way, it would be even better - but alas.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

your political alignment determines what kind of an optinal sidequest you can get

Sounds like cringe. The "communism" in this game is presented as "rob everyone and divide everything equally". It made me butthurt, but I survived. Now there's SIDE QUESTS to deepen that misguidance?

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Now there's SIDE QUESTS to deepen that misguidance?

The side quest deals with some students who are a mix between Western Maoists and New Age retards (the latter aspect of their ideology being an allegory on steroids for Lysenkoism).

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

I don't see pretentious writing.

Maybe OP is an Avellone alt.

 

[Larianshill]

If you want some actual choices and consequences, you better strap yourself in for Baldur's Gate 3. Here are just some of the possibilities when it comes to resolving just the druid-goblin quest in the early access: do you side with the druids or the goblins? Do you save the archdruid or get him killed? Do you kill him yourself, because casting Speak with Dead on his corpse is the fastest way to get the information you want? Do you expose his scheming second in command? If so, do you kill her or redeem her? Do you kill the goblin army through violence, or do you assassinate their leaders while pretending to be their ally? Do you lure them out in the open to attack the druids, only to help the druids in the battle? All of those moving parts interact with each other, creating your narrative.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

• Wrestles control of the camera away from you to show what new path was opened by activating a switch

OMG I hate this so much.

• Inventory space being too low when the gameplay expects you to pick up tons of stuff
• Inventory/Encumbrance requiring frequent trips back to town
• Encumbrance

These are all really the same thing.

I would also add forced stealth missions and mandatory minigames.

 

[Larianshill]

I would also add forced stealth missions

Kingdom Come Deliverance represent

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

and New Age retards (the latter aspect of their ideology being an allegory on steroids for Lysenkoism).

So yet another another comrade is besmirched by the supposed "commie game". Reading about politics in this game is like reading wikipedia or reddit. Looks like I'll pass.

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

If you want some actual choices and consequences, you better strap yourself in for Baldur's Gate 3. Here are just some of the possibilities when it comes to resolving just the druid-goblin quest in the early access: do you side with the druids or the goblins? Do you save the archdruid or get him killed? Do you kill him yourself, because casting Speak with Dead on his corpse is the fastest way to get the information you want? Do you expose his scheming second in command? If so, do you kill her or redeem her? Do you kill the goblin army through violence, or do you assassinate their leaders while pretending to be their ally? Do you lure them out in the open to attack the druids, only to help the druids in the battle? All of those moving parts interact with each other, creating your narrative.

An interesting example of a game that offers you C&C, but you just can't bring yourself to give a single f*ck about all that shit.