X-COM XCOM 2 + War of the Chosen Expansion Thread

[ArchAngel]

Nice edit. That was only for later game Xcom1 with 6 members in team. At start you have one rocket guy, maybe two. And we still don't know if we are going to have 6 member teams in Xcom 2, I don't remember that being mentioned.
And still it changes nothing, in original Xcom you could just lay waste to whole map from outside of your skyranger and then move out and have easier time fighting. Here you will only use explosives to blow up enemies AFTER you find them and never tactically just to make passages or remove cover, that is a waste of limited weapons that can normally kill enemies.

 

[Zombra]

Nice edit. That was only for later game Xcom1 with 6 members in team. At start you have one rocket guy, maybe two. And we still don't know if we are going to have 6 member teams in Xcom 2, I don't remember that being mentioned.
And still it changes nothing, in original Xcom you could just lay waste to whole map from outside of your skyranger and then move out and have easier time fighting. Here you will only use explosives to blow up enemies AFTER you find them and never tactically just to make passages or remove cover, that is a waste of limited weapons that can normally kill enemies.

So are we talking about meaningful gameplay, or are we just complaining about XCOM and X-COM not being identical?

 

[anus_pounder]

 

[ArchAngel]

So are we talking about meaningful gameplay, or are we just complaining about XCOM and X-COM not being identical?

I don't know what you are talking about, I am talking about how that change is just a marketing trick that means little tactically if you don't have access to enough explosives to use them even if you don't do any damage. Or better to say, the value of explosives and building destruction will not change much between nuXcom1 and nuXcom2 as people will still only be using explosives to kill aliens first and destroy buildings/cover second.

 

[Raghar]

They do, but it still looks a bit off.
I thought the maps in EU looked better. Maybe its only the Advent city maps that are like that; it could be that they are meant to look off.
Then again, I prefer my future cities to look like below, so ymmv

C'mon. What about realistic future cities?

 

[Space Satan]

For all the shit Firaxis did to X-Com, art design is the least of my complains. If they want a setting with clean and sterile cities - it's their right. Like I said - they are consistent artisticly, with angel-like aliens, who have to aapeal to human population etc. My main concern is overall mechanic. Interception, missions, pace of the game and level of difficulty on the field, plus rebelanced skills.

 

[Zombra]

I don't know what you are talking about

Then shut the fuck up and stop replying to me.

I am talking about how [destructible terrain] is just a marketing trick that means little tactically if you don't have access to enough explosives to use them even if you don't do any damage.

XCOM 2012 starts you with 4 grenades in the first mission. There is a grenade icon on the screen in the first instant of gameplay. The ability to change the tactical situation 4 times in 20 minutes is not "meaningless".

Or better to say, the value of explosives and building destruction will not change much between nuXcom1 and nuXcom2 as people will still only be using explosives to kill aliens first and destroy buildings/cover second.

Oh, so now you're not only an expert on how "people" play the 2012 game (just like you I guess, huh?), you're also an expert on how "people" will play the sequel when new mechanics are introduced (they'll "only" use the old mechanics, because you don't plan to ever change your tactics).

 

[Mozg]

I think it's true you very rarely use cover destruction in XCOM2012 to modify the terrain, as opposed to destroying the cover an enemy is using at this very moment so you can crit the shit out of him. You could probably count the times I used explosives solely to open up a sightline or pre-emptively deny the enemy some cover with two digits even though I played the shit out of Long War.

That's partly because the way activation worked in 2012 having longer sightlines is almost always bad. You generally want to fight in closets, and using explosives that would incidentally open sightlines was usually a tradeoff, not an advantage.

 

[ArchAngel]

Then shut the fuck up and stop replying to me.


XCOM 2012 starts you with 4 grenades in the first mission. There is a grenade icon on the screen in the first instant of gameplay. The ability to change the tactical situation 4 times in 20 minutes is not "meaningless".


Oh, so now you're not only an expert on how "people" play the 2012 game (just like you I guess, huh?), you're also an expert on how "people" will play the sequel when new mechanics are introduced (they'll "only" use the old mechanics, because you don't plan to ever change your tactics).

I think you have no clue what you are talking about. Grenades mean shit for destroying cover. They were used to finish off enemies, only on impossible difficulty where you cannot kill 4 HP sectoid with 3 damage grenade you would use them to destroy some weak cover so another soldier could get a flanking shot. Grenades without additional perks could not even destroy most cover. That is why I didn't really count them, only rockets were reliable to be used for destroying cover.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

I think you have no clue what you are talking about. Grenades mean shit for destroying cover. They were used to finish off enemies, only on impossible difficulty where you cannot kill 4 HP sectoid with 3 damage grenade you would use them to destroy some weak cover so another soldier could get a flanking shot. Grenades without additional perks could not even destroy most cover. That is why I didn't really count them, only rockets were reliable to be used for destroying cover.

What? Are we playing the same game, because in my games, unmodded, grenades can destroy most cover.
And I don't mean alien grenades, I mean the shitty 3 damage grenades.
And yes, they are useful for exposing a tough enemy.

In fact, earlier in this thread I do believe that I lamented that cover was too easy to destroy, with any non explosive weapon having a damage value of at least 5 being able to wreck anything from stone walls to UFO hulls.
Any explosive weapon can destroy any bit of destructible terrain.

In Enemy Within you have MEC troopers, who can destroy cover at will as well.
Only needs about half its ammunition.

 

[ArchAngel]

Most covers are cars or heavy walls, Grenades cannot destroy those. They can only blow up low weak cover. Rockets can blow up anything and that is why I only count them. Later you can have 6 guys and alien grenades but that still not close enough to blowing shit up without damaging enemies being a useful tactic because you fight on large maps (big ships, alien bases).

 

[Zombra]

I think you have no clue what you are talking about. Grenades mean shit for destroying cover.

So when they ADD MORE WAYS for explosives to remove cover and open sightlines, as they are talking about doing, that's "meaningless" because those ways didn't exist in the previous game?

I think you have no clue what you are talking about.

I think you have a problem talking about the same thing for 2 posts in a row. You started off by saying cover destruction is meaningless because you won't have enough explosives to waste on it. Then when that was refuted you moved on to how things were different in the original X-COM, as if the existence of another game means that there can't be interesting tactics in this one. Now you're talking about the mechanics in XCOM 2012 as if they will be identical to XCOM 2016, even though the fundamental conversation is about the devs' announcement of NEW mechanics. Each new point you try to make is stupider than the last. What foolery will be next, I wonder? It's horrible to watch, but I must admit I'm fascinated.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Most covers are cars or heavy walls, Grenades cannot destroy those. They can only blow up low weak cover. Rockets can blow up anything and that is why I only count them. Later you can have 6 guys and alien grenades but that still not close enough to blowing shit up without damaging enemies being a useful tactic because you fight on large maps (big ships, alien bases).

Grenades can destroy cars, there's just a 1 turn delay before it explodes. Even when it explodes, the car will still count as cover. This is even if it detonates instantly due to a rocket.
I have never encountered a wall that a grenade can't destroy. If a grenade can't destroy it, neither can a rocket.
Are you sure you aren't thinking of Long War? Apparently that mod changes how terrain destruction works.

 

[Zeriel]

Well, this thread has taught us that ArchAngel definitely deserves his tag.

Throwing in my two cents because I'm almost done with a unmodded Impossible playthrough: explosives are super common once you get your squad developed and I use them all the time. I feel like I use explosives more in nu XCOM than I ever did in old X-COM, perhaps because they are a recharging ability that is effortless to use as compared to explosives being actual items in the old games, not to mention free aim was available to get rid of cover/terrain in old X-COM.

I feel they're fine as-is and maybe are too plentiful/too strong, but that's probably a result of the cover system, not explosives themselves.

 

[ArchAngel]

Well, this thread has taught us that ArchAngel definitely deserves his tag.

Throwing in my two cents because I'm almost done with a unmodded Impossible playthrough: explosives are super common once you get your squad developed and I use them all the time. I feel like I use explosives more in nu XCOM than I ever did in old X-COM, perhaps because they are a recharging ability that is effortless to use as compared to explosives being actual items in the old games, not to mention free aim was available to get rid of cover/terrain in old X-COM.

I feel they're fine as-is and maybe are too plentiful/too strong, but that's probably a result of the cover system, not explosives themselves.

Are you using them to blow holes in walls and destroy cover before meeting aliens or after you meet them but not damaging them at same time?

I finished original Xcom on impossible hardcore multiple times (done it without mind control and blaster launchers), and compared to that game nuXcom use of explosives is pathetic.

 

[Jimmious]

Explore the outskirts of ADVENT territory in our Wilderness environment spotlight.

➜ http://2kgam.es/1HYMK7X

*Graphics look better than Fallout 4.

 

[Zombra]

*Graphics look better than Fallout 4.

**Not saying much.

But that spotlight does have some nice screenshots! I wasn't expecting such a post-apocalypse vibe, but it makes perfect sense. These environments will make a great contrast to the city maps.

 

[Mazisky]

I hope (and i'm pretty sure) this game will have the same huge amount of props as Cities Skyline in terms of new buildings, veichles, and all environmental stuff.

in 2017 we'll basically have a free xpac through mods

and ofcourse a "darker nights" mod 1 week after release, as usual


PS: next and last blog update is "shanty towns", the old xcom cities

 

[Zeriel]

I hope (and i'm pretty sure) this game will have the same huge amount of props as Cities Skyline in terms of new buildings, veichles, and all environmental stuff.

in 2017 we'll basically have a free xpac through mods

and ofcourse a "darker nights" mod 1 week after release, as usual


PS: next and last blog update is "shanty towns", the old xcom cities

I'm hoping they include assets from XCOM 1 in their asset pack. That would be pretty cool. There's a lot of high quality models in EW and the Slingshot DLC that could be reused. The base defense map in particular was criminally underused.

 

[Mazisky]

I'm hoping they include assets from XCOM 1 in their asset pack. That would be pretty cool. There's a lot of high quality models in EW and the Slingshot DLC that could be reused. The base defense map in particular was criminally underused.

They could use classic assets to re-create a classic X-com with the new engine, only problem is the completely changed strategic layer

 

[Mazisky]

CLASSIC TOWNS : Jesus, those look really good, so much X-com classic vibe

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Oooh that does look much better than the ADVENT cities.

 

[lightbane]

The aliens may be world-conquerors that literally assimilate the defeated population into their genome, but they're intelligent enough to know that no-one likes to live in a hive world shit-covered planet.

 

[Alienman]

That is some cool looking areas.

 

[Zeriel]

Oooh that does look much better than the ADVENT cities.

I was saying that the alien city weird art direction was on purpose and the old cities would be very different, but no one believed me.