Mod News WTF - Baldur's Gate complete remake for NWN2 released

[MasPingon]

If nothing else, this mod highlights how pretty '98 graphics were compared to '06 graphics.

Yes, I agree Baldur's Gate's pre-rendered graphics are better than Neverwinter Nights 2's but an important advantage that most people are overlooking and that I've been thinking about a lot lately is that Neverwinter Nights 2's engine makes it much easier for characters to emote and actually do things. A big problem with Baldur's Gate is that characters just stand there even when the game makes it clear they're working or doing something. The lack of an ability to show action limits the kinds of dialogue and scenes that can be in a game. When the game does show action, it's limited to people fighting or walking. This is a problem with Baldur's Gate's graphics and ones that the designers had to write around. If Baldur's Gate was capable of showing a wider range of emotes and actions, something that Neverwinter Nights 2 can do, it would have had potentially huge consequences on the breadth of the game's content. Whether or not this mod takes advantage of that feature is something I'll see when I play it, but I think it's an important distinction in the capabilities of 2D and 3D graphics.

It's all about style and quality of narration, if done good - those 'wider range of emotes and action' are compeletely unnescessary. I think bigger problem is player lack of imagination.

 

[ikarinokami]

I would be more impressed if this was a Mod for TOEE

 

[Grunker]

cboyardee: Are you trolling? That shit was evoked through writing - a much more powerful tool than all the uncanny valley shit we get from NWN2. I'm not pulled out of Baldur's Gate by this, because there is nothing. NWN2 constantly remind me that the characters are just badly animated dolls.

 

[Infinitron]

cboyardee: Are you trolling? That shit was evoked through writing - a much more powerful tool than all the uncanny valley shit we get from NWN2. I'm not pulled out of Baldur's Gate by this, because there is nothing. NWN2 constantly remind me that the characters are just badly animated dolls.

I generally agree with this, but I also think you can't evoke everything through writing. There were things that the Infinity Engine games' plots simply could not do due to choosing not to animate anything but walking and fighting. And they were written to avoid those things or work around them.

That had its advantages, of course. Creativity through limitation, etc.

 

[eric__s]

cboyardee: Are you trolling? That shit was evoked through writing - a much more powerful tool than all the uncanny valley shit we get from NWN2. I'm not pulled out of Baldur's Gate by this, because there is nothing. NWN2 constantly remind me that the characters are just badly animated dolls.

I was talking specifically about the gameplay implications of being able to convey movement other than walking. I was playing a game, I think it was the first Drakensang game, and you could walk in front of a guy carrying a box. If he bumped into you, he'd drop and break the box. In Baldur's Gate, people can't carry boxes (or do anything other than stand up straight) because the game uses a modular sprite system that would require either every piece of armor in the game to be rendered in the box holding position or for there to be a special sprite of a guy holding a box, meaning that only this one guy could hold the box. The designers had to write the game within the limitations of a graphical system that only supports standing. Neverwinter Nights 2 allows you to give any model any action, meaning that any model can perform anything you tell it to do. Anyone can pick up a box and drop it. Because you can convey any kind of movement, you can also build narrative and gameplay around any kind of movement, not just walking and fighting. This is the crucial advantage a 3D Baldur's Gate has over a 2D one, whether or not it looks worse.

BUT because you and a couple other people mentioned specifically dialogue, like people moving around during it or whatever, I don't see why it needs to be a one or the other dichotomy. I like strong narrative and writing. If movement can supplement it, that's good too. It shouldn't take the place of it. That said, I don't think Baldur's Gate's writing was that good and it made very little attempt to justify what a million people standing in place were doing.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

I am not a fan of DnD, but some great cRPGs in that setting and mechanics, so I bear with it.
But, to the dedication for making this mod possible.
RTwP really pisses me off though. It would be really glorious if all the IE games are remade in the Turn Based D:OS toolset or something similar (not sure about DnD rule implementation there, but Swen said its heavily data driven.. so might be possible?). Yeah I am over RTwP. Either have action combat like Dark Souls, or have TB.

So much in the works. Can't wait for Shadowrun Returns.

 

[Infinitron]

You are not Commissar Draco

 

[Scruffy]

This gives me mixed feelings. On one hand, I respect this guy for the massive amount of work done and for the dedication demonstrated. On the other hand, NEVERWINTER NIGHTS 2 IS SHIT MAN WHY DID YOU DO IT?

Seven Years? You know what he could have done in seven years? Developed a completely new, NON SHITTY engine. And then be able to, I don’t know, SELL IT. Seriously, this is like those people whose hobby is write minuscule books you can’t read without a microscope. WHY?

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Infinitron not sure what that was supposed to imply.. you know being a newfag and all.

 

[Infinitron]

This gives me mixed feelings. On one hand, I respect this guy for the massive amount of work done and for the dedication demonstrated. On the other hand, NEVERWINTER NIGHTS 2 IS SHIT MAN WHY DID YOU DO IT?

Seven Years? You know what he could have done in seven years? Developed a completely new, NON SHITTY engine. And then be able to, I don’t know, SELL IT. Seriously, this is like those people whose hobby is write minuscule books you can’t read without a microscope. WHY?

Baldur's Gate is the #1 most popular game among game developers (source: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-11-08-game-devs-favourite-is-baldurs-gate) so it's not surprising that it's received these kinds of homages over the years.

Infinitron not sure what that was supposed to imply.. you know being a newfag and all.

You'll see.

 

[TripJack]

Also Kentucky has the best whisky

Fixed

Refixed :patriot:

 

[Scruffy]

Baldur's Gate is the #1 most popular game among game developers (source: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-11-08-game-devs-favourite-is-baldurs-gate) so it's not surprising that it's received these kinds of homages over the years.

Oh, i'm not surprised by the homage, i love BG1 and expansion.
But it's a bad homage. It's like taking your favorite piece of classical music and, as a homage, put it in rap form and have it sung by Pharrell or something (spelling, no idea)

 

[Melcar]

BG with the ToEE engine.

 

[Black]

From one bad engine with terrible combat to another bad engine with terrible combat.

 

[mediocrepoet]

BG with the ToEE engine.

As much as I like ToEE combat and BG overall, I can't even imagine fighting all the 2309473247 xvarts, bugbears and gnolls, etc. in turn based rules. I think I'd poke out my eyes with a pencil unless they adjusted the number of trash mobs and made the encounters more interesting.

I'd much rather see new adventures for ToEE or something ToEE like... or KotC2... or Chaos Chronicles, come to think of it. It's weird having releases to actually look forward to again.

 

[Indranys]

Man even the trailer looks like 15 fps shit with that laggy walking animation and all.
He should remake the game in ArmA engine instead so the game will have 15 fps for real.
And hearing shit like "Troll, 12 o'clock, 5 hundred meters" constantly will disturb one's sanity.

Still his dedication for 7 years to his questionable taste is worthy to be commanded.
A man should have that kind of dedication for things he believe is right.

 

[octavius]

Some guy is doing a video LP

Pretty boring, but you can skip through and have a look at the content I guess.

Hmm...he's using movies and voice files from the original game.
How legally smart is that?
After all Middle-Earth mods for the TES game, not using anything directly from the LOTR movies (AFAIK) have been shut down. Surely BG Reloaded is more "illegal"?

 

[Excidium]

Depends on the owner's stance on it.

 

[Infinitron]

octavius He took assets from one Hasbro game and put them in another Hasbro game. There shouldn't be any issues.

Besides, as I said, the mod is a fait accompli. It's done, it's out there, they can't really do anything about it.

 

[Roguey]

If nothing else, this mod highlights how pretty '98 graphics were compared to '06 graphics.

Yes, I agree Baldur's Gate's pre-rendered graphics are better than Neverwinter Nights 2's but an important advantage that most people are overlooking and that I've been thinking about a lot lately is that Neverwinter Nights 2's engine makes it much easier for characters to emote and actually do things. A big problem with Baldur's Gate is that characters just stand there even when the game makes it clear they're working or doing something. The lack of an ability to show action limits the kinds of dialogue and scenes that can be in a game. When the game does show action, it's limited to people fighting or walking. This is a problem with Baldur's Gate's graphics and ones that the designers had to write around. If Baldur's Gate was capable of showing a wider range of emotes and actions, something that Neverwinter Nights 2 can do, it would have had potentially huge consequences on the breadth of the game's content. Whether or not this mod takes advantage of that feature is something I'll see when I play it, but I think it's an important distinction in the capabilities of 2D and 3D graphics.

Was there any point in NWN2 or its expansions where emoting or actions was particularly noticeable or meaningful?

I remember fighting and walking for the most part. Sometimes there'd be dancers and musicians I think..? but file that under "Who cares?"

 

[Surf Solar]

Why does this shit even make it to the news?

Oh..

 

[Infinitron]

Why does this shit even make it to the news?

Oh..

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?posts/2697262

 

[OSK]

Sweet. Now I might actually finish Baldur's Gate. I'm too retarded to control a full party in real time.

 

[jiujitsu]

The NWN2 engine is NOT an upgrade to the Infinity Engine. It makes everything look like shit. IE looked like art and let your imagination fill in the rest.

 

[Grunker]

Why does this shit even make it to the news?

Oh..

How is a total conversion of Baldur's Gate not relevant to this site? Even though you or I hate that engine, somebody'll get a kick out of that shit.