Wrath of the cringefinder compilation thread

[NecroLord]

Who is that Camellia chick?

 

[perfectslumbers]

Who is that Camellia chick?

Elf noble who gets sexually aroused by murdering people

 

[NecroLord]

Let me guess. You can bang her?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

You can bang her?

99% of the characters you meet are fuckable

including the feces demon

 

[NecroLord]

Dear Lord...

This game has absolutely dogshit dialogue. P0rn games literally are not as pretentious or take themselves so seriously.

 

[Alex]

Not the main feature, but ignoring for a second the whole issue of being immaterial (which, to be fair, is something no RPG gets right, as far as I know); what is a bit of cutting and punching compared to the tortures of hell (which, I would argue, they should carry with them wherever they go)?

You're still conflating the two. It's a demon that's afraid of torture in that screenshot. And also, demons aren't immaterial beings.

Although mortals cannot recall a time when they were not haunted and tormented by demons, the strange truth is that demonkind is one of the youngest races to rise in the Outer Planes, for they are the direct result of the interaction between sinful mortal souls and the Abyss itself. In essence, demons are the ultimate “evolution” of sins born of mortal choice, a final scourge upon existence and a necessary price to pay for free will.

When the first sinful mortal souls were judged and sent on to their ultimate fates, those sent into the Abyss did not manifest as the Damned and enter the remorseless machine that is Hell, nor did they rematerialize in their living bodies on Abaddon to become prey for the daemonic host. Those who came to the Abyss manifested as larvae—worm-like creatures with pale, glistening bodies and twisted human faces stretched over the pulpy and chitinous masses that now passed as their heads. These larvae gathered on the rims of the Abyssal rifts, and as the countless worlds of the Material Plane continued to offer up sinful souls as grist for the Abyss, vast seas of larvae began to choke the realm. It wasn’t until a now-forgotten daemon lord, one of the first Horsemen of the Apocalypse, came upon a fatal idea that true demons came into existence. This lord had long held a strange interest in the qlippoth of the deepest Abyss, and in his realm kept many as stock for experiments and investigation. Intrigued by the potency of larvae, the ancient Horseman began to conduct experiments with larvae and qlippoth—experiments that showed immediate promise. Over time, the nameless Horseman perfected his methods, and at last was able to trigger a most unholy transformation. The amalgamation of sinful soul-stuff and living matter birthed eons ago by the Abyss convulsed and transformed from the inside out, making something entirely new: the first demon.

Legends vary on the subject of who this first demon may have been. While many believe the creature born that fateful moment would eventually become herself, much evidence suggests otherwise. It seems likely that this first demon has long since been slain and reworked into some strange new form by the Abyss—apocalyptic scholars and explorers believe that the first demon may still exist in some deep and undiscovered node in the Abyss or beyond, and that its reemergence into the multiverse will presage a new age of transformation in the Outer Rifts.

Yet the nature and fate of that first demon are overshadowed by a much greater event that occurred a moment after its creation. For the creation of that first demon, that first transformation of mortal soul into demonic life, did not go unseen or unknown. The Abyss itself felt the transformation, and almost as if the act were akin to plucking a load-bearing pebble from the fractured expanse of a vast dam, the transformation spread explosively. Across the Abyss, spasms of birth shuddered through the squirming seas of larvae. Waves of undulant flesh flowed over the edges of the rifts as individual larvae—their guts gorged upon Abyssal plants or flesh, filth, and decay—transformed into demons by the millions. This chain reaction filled the Outer Rifts with a violent new form of life in the span of a few heartbeats, and in an eyeblink demons became the most populous of the fiendish races.

Ok, I am not trying to argue that the game is not following pathfinder lore. I am arguing that this draws attention to a silly part of the lore, whether it is warranted by the setting or not.

Still, thanks for the in depth explanation.

 

[Pink Eye]

It's a dumb explanation if you ask me. Demons, devils, whatever. They shouldn't be scaredy wattle cats. "Oh no, please don't torture me, waaah, I need my momma!" The forces of evil are supposed to be, well, evil and shit. They're the epitome of man's greatest sins made manifest into tangible form. Taken shape in the most maleficent way possible.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

It's a dumb explanation if you ask me. Demons, devils, whatever. They shouldn't be scaredy wattle cats. "Oh no, please don't torture me, waaah, I need my momma!" The forces of evil are supposed to be, well, evil and shit. They're the epitome of man's greatest sins made manifest into tangible form. Taken shape in the most maleficent way possible.

Issue is that if you focus exclusively on their evilness, they you end up with interchangeable caricatures. To draw a parallel, there's a reason people like reading about various chaos space marines (whether the daemon primarchs or other champions like Lucius, Ahriman, Kharn etc etc) rather than pure daemons who are more or less devoid of personality and could be better characterized as forces of nature rather than proper characters.

 

[Pink Eye]

Issue is that if you focus exclusively on their evilness, they you end up with interchangeable caricatures.

Which is the point. Evil and Good is black and white. Helps make things clear when you go out in fantasy land and beat them up for daring to be evil. We don't need moral conundrums for smiting the baddies - sometimes simple is fine. This is something that I feel modern writers constantly mess up on. Not everything needs to be gray or require a philosophical argument.

rather than pure daemons who are more or less devoid of personality and could be better characterized as forces of nature rather than proper characters

I disagree because countless writers are able to achieve the simple premise of making evil interesting without turning it into some multi-layered pretentious farce.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Issue is that if you focus exclusively on their evilness, they you end up with interchangeable caricatures.

Which is the point. Evil and Good is black and white. Helps make things clear when you go out in fantasy land and beat them up for daring to be evil. We don't need moral conundrums for smiting the baddies - sometimes simple is fine. This is something that I feel modern writers constantly mess up on. Not everything needs to be gray or require a philosophical argument.

rather than pure daemons who are more or less devoid of personality and could be better characterized as forces of nature rather than proper characters

I disagree because countless writers are able to achieve the simple premise of making evil interesting without turning it into some multi-layered pretentious farce.

It's not about morality, but about individuality. All saints are good, but each saint is unique in his embodiment of metaphysical goodness (at least in Orthodox theology, sainthood representing the positive fulfillment of one's individuality in the image and likeness of God rather than through the leveling of one's personhood) which in turn makes hagiographies worth reading since each saint has his own individual temptations to tackle and he tackles them in his own personal way. And the same thing applies to fiction writing, characters that embody metaphysical goodness (or evilness) have to be well defined as individuals in order for them to be interesting. Otherwise you're left with boring tropes in which the lawful stupid protagonist #777 is fighting the stupid evil antagonist #666 (or even worse, the stupid good protagonist #777 who manages to defeat the baddie solely due to plot contrivances), at which point if you've experienced one fantasy story - you've experienced them all.

Demons and devils in D&D and D&D-derivate settings are embodiments of metaphysical evil, but they can be interestingly so due to their individual temperament, proclivities and so on.

 

[Pink Eye]

Ah, so then, do I take that as acknowledgement in which evil beings crying for their mommy for fear of being tortured is some weak ass shit that is neither interesting both in individuality or morality?

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Ah, so then, do I take that as acknowledgement in which evil beings crying for their mommy for fear of being tortured is some weak ass shit that is neither interesting both in individuality or morality?

Depends on how it's written. After all, cowardice is likewise a metaphysically negative thing which a demon could embody.

 

[Pink Eye]

Depends on how it's written.

Well duh. A well written piece of entertainment can transcend any medium as long as it's good and entertaining to read. However, I'm going to off on a foot here and say, Wrath of the Righteous is none of this.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Depends on how it's written.

Well duh. A well written piece of entertainment can transcend any medium as long as it's good and entertaining to read. However, I'm going to off on a foot here and say, Wrath of the Righteous is none of this.

Games don't tend to be high art, no. WotR is serviceable when it comes to its narrative design though. And unlike some other RPGs, at least it isn't too wordy.

 

[lightbane]

I could see a weak demon be afraid of torture... But only if you use some shit such as blessed weapons. Regular knives and fists would be beneath most demons, devils and such as they suffered far worse from where they came from.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

gygax is rolling over in his grave at the thought of a demon begging for mercy at the prospect of being tortured

 

[Nortar]

Not the main feature, but ignoring for a second the whole issue of being immaterial (which, to be fair, is something no RPG gets right, as far as I know); what is a bit of cutting and punching compared to the tortures of hell (which, I would argue, they should carry with them wherever they go)?

So your ridiculing the dialog is not based on the rules or the setting, but your personal idea of how demons should behave?
Well, okay then.
It's not the most objective take, but once again, I can relate, - not nearly enough RPG settings get the elves right and portray them as pansy faggots they are.
Good thing we figured out that your criticims is basically baseless though.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

gygax is rolling over in his grave at the thought of a demon begging for mercy at the prospect of being tortured

Paging JamesDixon (& Zed Duke of Banville) to confirm.

 

[JamesDixon]

gygax is rolling over in his grave at the thought of a demon begging for mercy at the prospect of being tortured

Paging JamesDixon (& Zed Duke of Banville) to confirm.

A demon would be wanting to be tortured as that's their kink. They love pain in both giving and receiving it. So rusty_shackleford is right that Gary would be turning over in his grave.

 

[perfectslumbers]

Demons being afraid of torture isn't as bad as them being converted to good after a single unconvincing speech from Ember

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Issue is that if you focus exclusively on their evilness, they you end up with interchangeable caricatures.

Which is the point. Evil and Good is black and white. Helps make things clear when you go out in fantasy land and beat them up for daring to be evil. We don't need moral conundrums for smiting the baddies - sometimes simple is fine. This is something that I feel modern writers constantly mess up on. Not everything needs to be gray or require a philosophical argument.

rather than pure daemons who are more or less devoid of personality and could be better characterized as forces of nature rather than proper characters

I disagree because countless writers are able to achieve the simple premise of making evil interesting without turning it into some multi-layered pretentious farce.

It's not about morality, but about individuality. All saints are good, but each saint is unique in his embodiment of metaphysical goodness (at least in Orthodox theology, sainthood representing the positive fulfillment of one's individuality in the image and likeness of God rather than through the leveling of one's personhood) which in turn makes hagiographies worth reading since each saint has his own individual temptations to tackle and he tackles them in his own personal way. And the same thing applies to fiction writing, characters that embody metaphysical goodness (or evilness) have to be well defined as individuals in order for them to be interesting. Otherwise you're left with boring tropes in which the lawful stupid protagonist #777 is fighting the stupid evil antagonist #666 (or even worse, the stupid good protagonist #777 who manages to defeat the baddie solely due to plot contrivances), at which point if you've experienced one fantasy story - you've experienced them all.

Demons and devils in D&D and D&D-derivate settings are embodiments of metaphysical evil, but they can be interestingly so due to their individual temperament, proclivities and so on.

 

[Nortar]

gygax is rolling over in his grave at the thought of a demon begging for mercy at the prospect of being tortured

Paging JamesDixon (& Zed Duke of Banville) to confirm.

A demon would be wanting to be tortured as that's their kink. They love pain in both giving and receiving it. So rusty_shackleford is right that Gary would be turning over in his grave.

I still would like to see some rules (btw, how is Gygax related to Pathfinder, except being the inspirational All-Father figure or something) mentioning all demons or devils being immune to pain.
Another point is that demons, being chaotic evil creatures, revel in causing pain and suffering to everyone around them.
And so it happens, most of the time they are surrounded by other demons, lower and higher in status.
Would not it suck if they could not hurt each other, coz if they all have no fear of pain, it kind of makes toturing each other pointless.
Why would lower demons submit to the will of the higher ones?

 

[Heroic Liberator]

I do agree with that statement of his. I just don't think that entities being of a particular metaphysical alignment somehow implies them being cardboard copies of one another.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

btw, how is Gygax related to Pathfinder

"how is the person who created this thing I made a derivative of relevant when it's being critiqued?"

maybe in contrast it can show how shitty pathfinder is?

 

[Nortar]

btw, how is Gygax related to Pathfinder

"how is the person who created this thing I made a derivative of relevant when it's being critiqued?"

maybe in contrast it can show how shitty pathfinder is?

"Author would like to thank the alphabet for the kindly provided letters".

Do you have any substantial response to my arguments?