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Vapourware WOTC restricting content creation in new OGL - Paizo launches competing OGL - lol cancelled
- Thread starter Acrux
- Start date
goddamn their website fucking collapsed
full support for paizo's smithian crusade against the wotc landlords
Fuck Paizo and their Marxist bullshit. You don't need a goddamn OGL to make games or stuff for existing games. I wish morons would learn that.
Delterius
Arcane
Paizo only realizes that having a ton of fans working for you (for free!), making content and advertising your brand, is an extremely good deal. They want to seize the golden goose before the landlords of the coast can kill it. Wotc/Hasbro are/were the kings of the pumpkin patch. All they had to do was churn out licenses for games and movies and roll in the dough. But they probably can't stand the idea that somebody else is making money with their own labor. They'd rather be kings of the swamp rather than the biggest player in the city. Let them.
That's not butthurt moron, but then you were always on the slow side.
Delterius
Arcane
That's not butthurt moron, but then you were always on the slow side.
You don't need a goddamn OGL to make games or stuff for existing games. I wish morons like you would learn that.
That's not butthurt moron, but then you were always on the slow side.I'm a fucking retard.
Can you read that retard?
Delterius
Arcane
nurse, we have a flaring butthurt. do you think he'll start writing in bold letters before surgery?You don't need a goddamn OGL to make games or stuff for existing games. I wish morons like you would learn that.
That's not butthurt moron, but then you were always on the slow side.I'm a fucking retard.
Can you read that retard?
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2014
- Messages
- 14,194
https://paizo.com/community/blog
Paizo Announces System-Neutral Open RPG License
Thursday, January 12, 2023
For the last several weeks, as rumors of Wizards of the Coast’s new version of the Open Game License began circulating among publishers and on social media, gamers across the world have been asking what Paizo plans to do in light of concerns regarding Wizards of the Coast’s rumored plan to de-authorize the existing OGL 1.0(a). We have been awaiting further information, hoping that Wizards would realize that, for more than 20 years, the OGL has been a mutually beneficial license which should not–and cannot–be revoked. While we continue to await an answer from Wizards, we strongly feel that Paizo can no longer delay making our own feelings about the importance of Open Gaming a part of the public discussion.
We believe that any interpretation that the OGL 1.0 or 1.0(a) were intended to be revocable or able to be deauthorized is incorrect, and with good reason.
We were there.
Paizo owner Lisa Stevens and Paizo president Jim Butler were leaders on the Dungeons & Dragons team at Wizards at the time. Brian Lewis, co-founder of Azora Law, the intellectual property law firm that Paizo uses, was the attorney at Wizards who came up with the legal framework for the OGL itself. Paizo has also worked very closely on OGL-related issues with Ryan Dancey, the visionary who conceived the OGL in the first place.
Paizo does not believe that the OGL 1.0a can be “deauthorized,” ever. While we are prepared to argue that point in a court of law if need be, we don’t want to have to do that, and we know that many of our fellow publishers are not in a position to do so.
We have no interest whatsoever in Wizards’ new OGL. Instead, we have a plan that we believe will irrevocably and unquestionably keep alive the spirit of the Open Game License.
As Paizo has evolved, the parts of the OGL that we ourselves value have changed. When we needed to quickly bring out Pathfinder First Edition to continue publishing our popular monthly adventures back in 2008, using Wizards’ language was important and expeditious. But in our non-RPG products, including our Pathfinder Tales novels, the Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, and others, we shifted our focus away from D&D tropes to lean harder into ideas from our own writers. By the time we went to work on Pathfinder Second Edition, Wizards of the Coast’s Open Game Content was significantly less important to us, and so our designers and developers wrote the new edition without using Wizards’ copyrighted expressions of any game mechanics. While we still published it under the OGL, the reason was no longer to allow Paizo to use Wizards’ expressions, but to allow other companies to use our expressions.
We believe, as we always have, that open gaming makes games better, improves profitability for all involved, and enriches the community of gamers who participate in this amazing hobby. And so we invite gamers from around the world to join us as we begin the next great chapter of open gaming with the release of a new open, perpetual, and irrevocable Open RPG Creative License (ORC).
The new Open RPG Creative License will be built system agnostic for independent game publishers under the legal guidance of Azora Law, an intellectual property law firm that represents Paizo and several other game publishers. Paizo will pay for this legal work. We invite game publishers worldwide to join us in support of this system-agnostic license that allows all games to provide their own unique open rules reference documents that open up their individual game systems to the world. To join the effort and provide feedback on the drafts of this license, please sign up by using this form.
In addition to Paizo, Kobold Press, Chaosium, Green Ronin, Legendary Games, Rogue Genius Games, and a growing list of publishers have already agreed to participate in the Open RPG Creative License, and in the coming days we hope and expect to add substantially to this group.
The ORC will not be owned by Paizo, nor will it be owned by any company who makes money publishing RPGs. Azora Law’s ownership of the process and stewardship should provide a safe harbor against any company being bought, sold, or changing management in the future and attempting to rescind rights or nullify sections of the license. Ultimately, we plan to find a nonprofit with a history of open source values to own this license (such as the Linux Foundation).
Of course, Paizo plans to continue publishing Pathfinder and Starfinder, even as we move away from the Open Gaming License. Since months’ worth of products are still at the printer, you’ll see the familiar OGL 1.0(a) in the back of our products for a while yet. While the Open RPG Creative License is being finalized, we’ll be printing Pathfinder and Starfinder products without any license, and we’ll add the finished license to those products when the new license is complete.
We hope that you will continue to support Paizo and other game publishers in this difficult time for the entire hobby. You can do your part by supporting the many companies that have provided content under the OGL. Support Pathfinder and Starfinder by visiting your local game store, subscribing to Pathfinder and Starfinder, or taking advantage of discount code OpenGaming during checkout for 25% off your purchase of the Core Rulebook, Core Rulebook Pocket Edition, or Pathfinder Beginner Box. Support Kobold Press, Green Ronin, Legendary Games, Roll for Combat, Rogue Genius Games, and other publishers working to preserve a prosperous future for Open Gaming that is both perpetual AND irrevocable.
We’ll be there at your side. You can count on us not to go back on our word.
Forever.
–Paizo Inc
Delterius
Arcane
Found the text elsewhere:
For the last several weeks, as rumors of Wizards of the Coast’s new version of the Open Game License began circulating among publishers and on social media, gamers across the world have been asking what Paizo plans to do in light of concerns regarding Wizards of the Coast’s rumored plan to de-authorize the existing OGL 1.0(a). We have been awaiting further information, hoping that Wizards would realize that, for more than 20 years, the OGL has been a mutually beneficial license which should not–and cannot–be revoked. While we continue to await an answer from Wizards, we strongly feel that Paizo can no longer delay making our own feelings about the importance of Open Gaming a part of the public discussion.
We believe that any interpretation that the OGL 1.0 or 1.0(a) were intended to be revocable or able to be deauthorized is incorrect, and with good reason.
We were there.
Paizo owner Lisa Stevens and Paizo president Jim Butler were leaders on the Dungeons & Dragons team at Wizards at the time. Brian Lewis, co-founder of Azora Law, the intellectual property law firm that Paizo uses, was the attorney at Wizards who came up with the legal framework for the OGL itself. Paizo has also worked very closely on OGL-related issues with Ryan Dancey, the visionary who conceived the OGL in the first place.
Paizo does not believe that the OGL 1.0a can be “deauthorized,” ever. While we are prepared to argue that point in a court of law if need be, we don’t want to have to do that, and we know that many of our fellow publishers are not in a position to do so.
We have no interest whatsoever in Wizards’ new OGL. Instead, we have a plan that we believe will irrevocably and unquestionably keep alive the spirit of the Open Game License.
As Paizo has evolved, the parts of the OGL that we ourselves value have changed. When we needed to quickly bring out Pathfinder First Edition to continue publishing our popular monthly adventures back in 2008, using Wizards’ language was important and expeditious. But in our non-RPG products, including our Pathfinder Tales novels, the Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, and others, we shifted our focus away from D&D tropes to lean harder into ideas from our own writers. By the time we went to work on Pathfinder Second Edition, Wizards of the Coast’s Open Game Content was significantly less important to us, and so our designers and developers wrote the new edition without using Wizards’ copyrighted expressions of any game mechanics. While we still published it under the OGL, the reason was no longer to allow Paizo to use Wizards’ expressions, but to allow other companies to use our expressions.
We believe, as we always have, that open gaming makes games better, improves profitability for all involved, and enriches the community of gamers who participate in this amazing hobby. And so we invite gamers from around the world to join us as we begin the next great chapter of open gaming with the release of a new open, perpetual, and irrevocable Open RPG Creative License (ORC).
The new Open RPG Creative License will be built system agnostic for independent game publishers under the legal guidance of Azora Law, an intellectual property law firm that represents Paizo and several other game publishers. Paizo will pay for this legal work. We invite game publishers worldwide to join us in support of this system-agnostic license that allows all games to provide their own unique open rules reference documents that open up their individual game systems to the world. To join the effort and provide feedback on the drafts of this license, please sign up by using this form.
In addition to Paizo, Kobold Press, Chaosium, Green Ronin, Legendary Games, Rogue Genius Games, and a growing list of publishers have already agreed to participate in the Open RPG Creative License, and in the coming days we hope and expect to add substantially to this group.
The ORC will not be owned by Paizo, nor will it be owned by any company who makes money publishing RPGs. Azora Law’s ownership of the process and stewardship should provide a safe harbor against any company being bought, sold, or changing management in the future and attempting to rescind rights or nullify sections of the license. Ultimately, we plan to find a nonprofit with a history of open source values to own this license (such as the Linux Foundation).
Of course, Paizo plans to continue publishing Pathfinder and Starfinder, even as we move away from the Open Gaming License. Since months’ worth of products are still at the printer, you’ll see the familiar OGL 1.0(a) in the back of our products for a while yet. While the Open RPG Creative License is being finalized, we’ll be printing Pathfinder and Starfinder products without any license, and we’ll add the finished license to those products when the new license is complete.
We hope that you will continue to support Paizo and other game publishers in this difficult time for the entire hobby. You can do your part by supporting the many companies that have provided content under the OGL. Support Pathfinder and Starfinder by visiting your local game store, subscribing to Pathfinder and Starfinder, or taking advantage of discount code OpenGaming during checkout for 25% off your purchase of the Core Rulebook, Core Rulebook Pocket Edition, or Pathfinder Beginner Box. Support Kobold Press, Green Ronin, Legendary Games, Roll for Combat, Rogue Genius Games, and other publishers working to preserve a prosperous future for Open Gaming that is both perpetual AND irrevocable.
We’ll be there at your side. You can count on us not to go back on our word.
Forever.
–Paizo Inc
We believe that any interpretation that the OGL 1.0 or 1.0(a) were intended to be revocable or able to be deauthorized is incorrect, and with good reason.
We were there.
Paizo owner Lisa Stevens and Paizo president Jim Butler were leaders on the Dungeons & Dragons team at Wizards at the time. Brian Lewis, co-founder of Azora Law, the intellectual property law firm that Paizo uses, was the attorney at Wizards who came up with the legal framework for the OGL itself. Paizo has also worked very closely on OGL-related issues with Ryan Dancey, the visionary who conceived the OGL in the first place.
Paizo does not believe that the OGL 1.0a can be “deauthorized,” ever. While we are prepared to argue that point in a court of law if need be, we don’t want to have to do that, and we know that many of our fellow publishers are not in a position to do so.
We have no interest whatsoever in Wizards’ new OGL. Instead, we have a plan that we believe will irrevocably and unquestionably keep alive the spirit of the Open Game License.
As Paizo has evolved, the parts of the OGL that we ourselves value have changed. When we needed to quickly bring out Pathfinder First Edition to continue publishing our popular monthly adventures back in 2008, using Wizards’ language was important and expeditious. But in our non-RPG products, including our Pathfinder Tales novels, the Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, and others, we shifted our focus away from D&D tropes to lean harder into ideas from our own writers. By the time we went to work on Pathfinder Second Edition, Wizards of the Coast’s Open Game Content was significantly less important to us, and so our designers and developers wrote the new edition without using Wizards’ copyrighted expressions of any game mechanics. While we still published it under the OGL, the reason was no longer to allow Paizo to use Wizards’ expressions, but to allow other companies to use our expressions.
We believe, as we always have, that open gaming makes games better, improves profitability for all involved, and enriches the community of gamers who participate in this amazing hobby. And so we invite gamers from around the world to join us as we begin the next great chapter of open gaming with the release of a new open, perpetual, and irrevocable Open RPG Creative License (ORC).
The new Open RPG Creative License will be built system agnostic for independent game publishers under the legal guidance of Azora Law, an intellectual property law firm that represents Paizo and several other game publishers. Paizo will pay for this legal work. We invite game publishers worldwide to join us in support of this system-agnostic license that allows all games to provide their own unique open rules reference documents that open up their individual game systems to the world. To join the effort and provide feedback on the drafts of this license, please sign up by using this form.
In addition to Paizo, Kobold Press, Chaosium, Green Ronin, Legendary Games, Rogue Genius Games, and a growing list of publishers have already agreed to participate in the Open RPG Creative License, and in the coming days we hope and expect to add substantially to this group.
The ORC will not be owned by Paizo, nor will it be owned by any company who makes money publishing RPGs. Azora Law’s ownership of the process and stewardship should provide a safe harbor against any company being bought, sold, or changing management in the future and attempting to rescind rights or nullify sections of the license. Ultimately, we plan to find a nonprofit with a history of open source values to own this license (such as the Linux Foundation).
Of course, Paizo plans to continue publishing Pathfinder and Starfinder, even as we move away from the Open Gaming License. Since months’ worth of products are still at the printer, you’ll see the familiar OGL 1.0(a) in the back of our products for a while yet. While the Open RPG Creative License is being finalized, we’ll be printing Pathfinder and Starfinder products without any license, and we’ll add the finished license to those products when the new license is complete.
We hope that you will continue to support Paizo and other game publishers in this difficult time for the entire hobby. You can do your part by supporting the many companies that have provided content under the OGL. Support Pathfinder and Starfinder by visiting your local game store, subscribing to Pathfinder and Starfinder, or taking advantage of discount code OpenGaming during checkout for 25% off your purchase of the Core Rulebook, Core Rulebook Pocket Edition, or Pathfinder Beginner Box. Support Kobold Press, Green Ronin, Legendary Games, Roll for Combat, Rogue Genius Games, and other publishers working to preserve a prosperous future for Open Gaming that is both perpetual AND irrevocable.
We’ll be there at your side. You can count on us not to go back on our word.
Forever.
–Paizo Inc
You don't say. Talk about being butthurt.
Delterius
Arcane
jesus fucking christ
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2013
- Messages
- 13,175
Basically they make a new OGL (called ORC) thats system-independent, lots of other 3PP are already on board, the licence will be drafted with the support of and maintained initially by a law firm and not by Paizo or any other company publishing TTRPG materials to maintain neutrality, it will be perpetual and irrevocable, they also plan to later have an org similar to the Linux Foundation take maintainership over
They basically give WOTC the big middle finger
Wow such a loser you are.
Delterius
Arcane
It really is just the free market at work. Wizards decided that their OGL was like a benevolent concession, and that people dared to make too much money off of it. The truth is that it's a mutually beneficial agreement. Small publishers get the benefit of a built-in audience. The IP holders benefit from free labor, free growth, and free advertisement. It's a cooperation that lifts all boats, so to speak. And I can't stress this enough: WotC is acting like a landlord and Paizo is acting like a capitalist. How do you get 3PPs onboard with another OGL? You offer them a better deal, with clear security for their labor and everything is clearly written in stone. It might work.
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2013
- Messages
- 13,175
Capitalism at its best
It's not since Wizards and others that use the OGL make the claim that they own the copyrights to game mechanics. That's not possible in the United States since they can neither be copyrighted or patented.
No, they don't since the OGL specifically prohibits the use of Wizards trademarks. That's the marketable part of D&D and wholly controlled by Wizards.
You can't create anything for the settings of D&D. That's the only thing that can be copyrighted. The game mechanics and other rules cannot. Also, there isn't any free advertisement since third party publishers are prohibited from using Wizards trademarks.
Both are acting like a landlord stating that you're a squatter when it comes to the game mechanics. A true capitalist tells them both to fuck off and proceed to create a game with game mechanics that are either PF or DANDINO. Neither company owns the copyrights or patents to game mechanics.
You tell the third party publishers that they don't need an OGL to make stuff for your game system. That's the best option.
Of course you being a complete and utter retard when it comes to this subject you think groveling at the feet of companies is your best bet.
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2013
- Messages
- 13,175
you're a fucking moron and somebody should murderhobo you for the benefit of the human race
PapaPetro
Guest
First Nintendo with Smash and now this.
Suits are reigning their shit in.
Suits are reigning their shit in.
PapaPetro
Guest
What happens if WotC goes bankrupt and auctions off the D&D IP? Could an individual just buy it and make it open permanently to the public domain?
Is a corporate holder of the IP necessary anymore at this stage of the product?
D&D is a product that has gotten to big for business.
If Wizards goes bankrupt they can auction off the settings and trademarks. Yes, a private person can buy the trademarks and the settings then release it into public domain.
If you are talking about for profit then you would need an owner for the trademarks and the copyrights to the settings. As I stated previously, copyrights and patents do not extend to the game mechanics. What copyright does cover for the published rulebooks is that exact expression used for game mechanics and that's it. Copyright covers the art as well, but that's a separate copyright from the books.
Dr1f7
Scholar
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2022
- Messages
- 1,509
absolutely based moves from hasbro/wotc gotta love watching redditors get shit on.
next play should be to dab on streamers and youtubers for the final W
the music industry was smart to crack down on cringe streaming culture immediately game devs should catch up soon
next play should be to dab on streamers and youtubers for the final W
the music industry was smart to crack down on cringe streaming culture immediately game devs should catch up soon
PapaPetro
Guest
Is the publishing necessary in this age or is it overvaluing its own worth; much like the brick & mortar retailer to Amazon. TSR started as a rules documentation publishing company. With home publication and Internet distribution, the only thing a company like WotC has left to offer is innovative mechanics and design (esp. since you can't copyright mechanics/rulws). Of which, 3rd parties and fans do a better job.
Think of it this way, if D&D went public domain and didn't have a corp that "managed" the IP, there would still be Players Handbooks, DMGs, MMs, new adventures, CRPGs, etc coming out.
WotC is obsolete.
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