World of Whorecraft: Battle for Asseroth

[Delterius]

Retcons are only bad when used over and over again, like they did from Warcraft III onward. If you retcon something minor it should not be a big deal. Turning Orcs into noble cool dudes on the other hand is dumb shit.

That's already over half the franchise my dude. And do remember, the shift from humans worshipping a God with capital G fighting Orcs who summoned demons from Hell with capital H actually started with Warcraft II.

That said. There's a difference between borrowing from the father of modern fantasy and literally shifting words around because you just suddenly lost the license to IP you used to make your first game. Warcraft as setting didn't exactly have a novel start. That was the beginning of a fun, dumb schlockfest franchise that sold millions.

Knowing the difference between good and good 'enough' is the healthy distance between laughing with all the dumb shit that Blizzard writes or still being pissed off at all the retcons, inconsistencies and moments of shittiest decisions that peppers the story. There's still people who froth in the mouth that the Eredar/Draenei connection was retconned in TBC. Or that Deathwing was turned into a big dumb dragon. And that Medivh's son exists. Or that the entirety of the Night Elf lore exists. That Pandaria exists. That the Scourge was turned into the ultimate unstoppable evil, only held back because Arthas is a retard who likes to play with his food. That Illidan was resurrected because of a poll on twitter. Etc.

 

[TedNugent]

For those saying that Blizzard never knew how to write.

It was during my fevered flight that the Presence finally made contact with me. It radiated untold power, but it lacked the emotionless control displayed by Kil'jaeden. My senses seemed to take control over the dread that had engulfed me, and my mind began to cipher and reason. I knew that if I could divine the desires of this force, no matter how powerful, I could use it to further my own ends. The presence identified itself as Medivh, a sorcerer from some far and distant world. We communicated not in words, but in a guarded joining of minds. His mind seemed boundless, but his thoughts moved so swiftly that it was difficult to learn anything from him. All the while, I knew that he was probing me - learning more and more about the Orcs and our magic. I could never learn as much from him as he would from me, and I soon broke contact with him.

I sought the counsel of Kil'jaeden, but he refused to answer my summons. Somehow I knew that he had forsaken his students because he was afraid of this Medivh. I found myself again doubting my skills. Could I contend with a being who could intimidate my own master? I continued to venture into the Twisting Nether for several weeks, all but forgetting the disturbance that had caused me to question myself. Then one night, Medivh appeared to me in my dreams...

"You fear me, for you do not understand me. See my world and understand your fear. Then fear no more"

I was powerless to resist what came next
...barren wastes...
...dark swamps, teeming with life...
...endless fields of emerald grasses...
...forests of magnificent trees...
...farmlands filled with rich harvests...
...villages of proud, strong people...


Images came, flashing much too quick to comprehend. And then...something. A fleeting picture that left a longing stirring inside of my soul...


...buried deep beneath the ocean; dark and ruined, but still breathing...
...still pulsing with the lifeblood of the earth itself...
...an ancient power...
...ancient and terrible...


I awoke. I embraced consciousness knowing all along that the dream had been real. Medivh had shown me the wonders of his world, knowing that the Horde would not be content until his world was ours...

Okay, it's light years beyond their moderntard shit.

 

[Bigg Boss]

Retcons are only bad when used over and over again, like they did from Warcraft III onward. If you retcon something minor it should not be a big deal. Turning Orcs into noble cool dudes on the other hand is dumb shit.

That's already over half the franchise my dude. And do remember, the shift from humans worshipping a God with capital G fighting Orcs who summoned demons from Hell with capital H actually started with Warcraft II.

That said. There's a difference between borrowing from the father of modern fantasy and literally shifting words around because you just suddenly lost the license to IP you used to make your first game. Warcraft as setting didn't exactly have a novel start. That was the beginning of a fun, dumb schlockfest franchise that sold millions.

Knowing the difference between good and good 'enough' is the healthy distance between laughing with all the dumb shit that Blizzard writes or still being pissed off at all the retcons, inconsistencies and moments of shittiest decisions that peppers the story. There's still people who froth in the mouth that the Eredar/Draenei connection was retconned in TBC. Or that Deathwing was turned into a big dumb dragon. And that Medivh's son exists. Or that the entirety of the Night Elf lore exists. That Pandaria exists. That the Scourge was turned into the ultimate unstoppable evil, only held back because Arthas is a retard who likes to play with his food. That Illidan was resurrected because of a poll on twitter. Etc.

The lore you mentioned is the stuff I don't like, minus certain Orcs being possessed by Demons. They were a lot more vague about all that without all this cosmic world building shit they tossed in with Warcraft III. It actually made the second game more interesting seeing them act more like Vikings with boats, steampunk tech Goblins tagging along, Ogres/Trolls with their own unique voices...It made the Orc forces feel real. Like they had to band together to fight because decades had passed and the Tides of Darkness were rising. Even if the Orcs were bad you can feel for them because they are stranded on some Alien planet just trying to survive.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

The true Horde was at its apex in WC2. Brutal Orcs, headhunting Trolls, exploding Goblins, pulverizing Ogres and sinister Undead. That's how the Horde should have always remained. Now you have Trolls rubbing shoulders and holding conversations with Elves, Orcs being spineless pussyboys, Tauren who may as well be mounts for Night Elves because of how passive they are and Goblins who are just comedy punchlines. The only race that is actually keeping any semblance of conflict alive between the factions are Undead and the Alliance/Horde have joined forces to bukkake the latest world ending threat so many times now that they seem like two teenagers in an on again, off again relationship.

They'll never go back to the Horde being real ones again because so many Blizzard fanboys want to be the good guy. They also began playing either during WoW or with War3 so they're devoted to the idea of the Horde being a bunch of poor, misunderstood outsiders that simply want to find their place in the world and not the no nonsense marauding conquerors they were originally portrayed as.

 

[Dzupakazul]

The true Horde was at its apex in WC2.

Sup, Garrosh.
Blizzard's flipflopping on this issue aside (I don't envy Horde players for constantly losing warchiefs or having their lore characters become instance or raid bosses), I don't think there's much benefit from making the players take an unambiguously "good" and "evil" side of the conflict. There's not much nuance to be had there. There are no more cool characters and storylines that reject your typical A/H split and forge something more substantial and interesting.
Also, I'm not sure how can you not see WC2 Ogres and Goblins as comic relief. Ogres sound goofy as fuck when against the backdrop of ORGRIM DOOMHAMMER ASKS YOU TO BUILD SHIPYARDS AND HARVEST THE PRECIOUS BLACK SUBSTANCE KNOWN AS OIL, LET THE PUNY HUMANS KNOW THEY CANNOT WITHSTAND THE FULL MIGHT OF THE HORDE, YEARRRGHHHHHHHHHH, YOUR COMMAND, MASTER and they just fucking punch buildings with their bare fists at Mach 5 due to Bloodlust spam. It's a giant stupid guy that argues with his own head. Meanwhile, goblins are cannon fodder with squeaky voices. The "explosive" aspect of them is consistently retained given that Goblin Engineering still exists and is distinguished for its silliness (not to mention that WC3 goblins certainly did not change their characterization much).
Much of the problems you're ascribing come from most of the lore being stashed away in airport literature (such as that time Baine shows Sylvanas he could rip her arms off on the spot when she gets particularly uppity) or the races being written by a committee with no actual clear goal, on top of flanderization of lore characters (vide the NElf leadership becoming this pair of jackasses). I was fine with WC3's orcs and undead and the narrative around them being outcasts was interesting compared to barely fleshed out "Red vs Blue, but Red is still high on demon blood".
And hey, if you wanted to LARP as an evil jackass, your Undead Warlock or Rogue (or, depending on interpretation, ANY Shadow Priest or Warlock) ganking Allies in Stranglethorn Vale and eating their remains afterwards while solving questlines about Sylvanas being Hitler was right there all along.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

I don't think there's much benefit from making the players take an unambiguously "good" and "evil" side of the conflict.

Blizzard's best storyline work comes from things being good and evil. Not everything needs to have this grey paint thrown over it, especially in things where it's just not necessary and doesn't even feel organically done as Warcraft has shown us. What I always enjoyed particularly about WC2 was how it didn't take itself too seriously but it also kept itself focused. In cinematics, you had the Orcs tackling knights off horseback and pounding the shit out of them with their bare fists, you had dragons with their stock Godzilla sounds breathe fire to catapults, you had the Horde bringing demons out into the world, you knew these guys were serious about a hostile takeover. Then in the game you have what I can only describe as a cartoon that takes a sudden, violent turn into blood and gore once you get into battles.

The issue when you try to add nuance to something like Warcraft that did very well without it in the first place is you have to make a lot of retcons and awful story hooks to keep the faction war going because as it stands they should all be living in peace with how many times they've had to team up and make the Superfriends to take down the latest box art villain. What's the reason for Battle for Azeroth now? Oh, some big tree belonging to the purple dykes was burnt down by Arthas' side chick? Why did she do that? Because she's a cunt? Do I have to buy books to understand the thought process of generic elf girl in hood #347?

Compare the narrative retardation that is the BfA cinematic to the Tides of Darkness one. The BfA cinematic makes zero sense because everybody had just fought off this huge demonic invasion and now they want to fight another war with one another when we were all playing grab-ass in Dalaran and the USS Enterprise a few days before? With Tides of Darkness, the Orcs won the First War. They took it over and now have built ships to set sail and take over the rest. This is a logical step because for one, the Orcs are portrayed as ruthless warmongers that live to fuck things up and for two because it picks up right where the story left off.

So with all the deeper aim for storytelling that Blizzard tried giving to Warcraft all it has done is give an absolute shitshow to keep up with to the point that we're now dealing with multiple universes like we're in a Marvel Comics nightmare. Depth is good when you know how to fill it, otherwise you risk drowning.

And if I did LARP as an evil jackass I'd do it for Blackhand or Doomhammer, they were the last real leaders of the Horde. Put that Banshee bitch back on Rule 34 where she belongs.

 

[thesheeep]

Well, Horde vs Alliance in WoW has always been this "kinda good guys" vs "obnoxiously annoying good guys" setup. Which was always "meh", and their conflict never really made sense, so the spider is right about that.

However, I found the WC1/2 setup even more boring. I find nothing interesting in the classic good vs evil stuff of the old days. It just puts me to sleep (story-wise, the gameplay can still be awesome, of course).
The best "villains" are those that are highly relatable, the best conflicts those where all sides got a point.
WoW of course doesn't manage that well, either...

But who the fuck plays MMOs for their story (if not playing them in pseudo single player mode)?

 

[Hoaxmetal]

muh warcraft lore

 

[Scroo]

muh warcraft lore

this honestly, I basically have no idea what is even going on anymore in the lore, they changed characters and stuff and went back and forth and rewrote it all again so many times I completely don't give a crap anymore ^^

All I know is Khadgar is annoying af jesus

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Blizzard's best storyline work comes from things being good and evil.

Agreed with Diablo but WC 1 and 2 "story" is horseshit.

WC 3 blows them out of the water TY very much.

Then WoW managed to have fan fiction tier writing all these years soooo, yeah you might have a point.

 

[Rivmusique]

Arthas, Death Knight, currently leading an army of corpses: WHAT THE?? AM I HEARING GHOSTS?

 

[Grunker]

Only game from Blizzard that had anything going for it storywise was original SC campaign. Even Brood War went to near-fanfic levels a few times with hybrid plot that amounted to nothing etc. Everything before or since has been throwaway at best to dogshit at worst

(bar the atmosphere of D1 and D2 which is awesome)

 

[Keshik]

Trailer:

Hmm I wonder why they never show the actual game in the trailers?

Because Blizzard never does that, I think.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

They removed PVP servers and replaced them with "Warmode?" What kind of pussy shit is that? Is this some plan to slowly ease players into being on a megaserver or is this Blizzard catering to faggot ERPers and soccer moms with helmet head hairstyles? Hunting people down and murdering them in unfair ways is a hallmark of MMORPGs.

 

[J1M]

They removed PVP servers and replaced them with "Warmode?" What kind of pussy shit is that? Is this some plan to slowly ease players into being on a megaserver or is this Blizzard catering to faggot ERPers and soccer moms with helmet head hairstyles? Hunting people down and murdering them in unfair ways is a hallmark of MMORPGs.

This setting basically lets PVE players hop to a PVP server without starting over. The 10% increased rewards will lure in some scrubs for you to gank.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

It'll be dead in six months.

They will never make the rewards truly great because then you'll have the gearboxes bitch how they're "forced" to flag when they don't want to. The incentive right now is not enough for it to be anything but a lame gimmick much like the Dalaran Sewers was. PVPers will just sit in a city and spam queue arenas since it'll always be more efficient gearing with the added bonus of making rating.

PVE players won't bother with the mode since a majority of them don't care about PVP to begin with. They need to make the rewards/incentives much greater than what they currently are if it's going to be a sustainable thing.

 

[Revenant]

IIRC the devs theorized that new objectives might be added to the war mode, thus making it qualitatively different from the carebear mode and therefore giving players an incentive to do it, but I might be making this up, 'cause this would be something far too good to be thought of and implemented by blizzurd.

 

[Black]

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20766056458
Starting a community for ANTIFA and other pro-freedom of speech anti-violence collectives

 

[Psquit]

Spoiler

Finally, Daelin Proudmoore acknowledged for dindu nuffin.

 

[you know what time it is]

Where them classic servers at for fucks sake. I want to make some proper ass pvp movies, in 144p with gay alternative music meekly blaring in the background.

 

[Cyberarmy]

Where them classic servers at for fucks sake. I want to make some proper ass pvp movies, in 144p with gay alternative music meekly blaring in the background.

Good'ol days

 

[Maculo]

I resubbed to play a disc priest and I am pleasantly surprised with warmode. Darkshore is a constant warzone with raid groups vying over airdrops (raid/mythic level gear rewards every 20 minutes). The guild I joined fills 2-3 raid groups and crashes into other raid groups. With linked servers and group finder, you can hop between servers and consistently find other enemy raid groups or airdrops. I have not seen PVP battles this large since perhaps vanilla or wintergrasp. Another nice part about warmode is the ability to use PVP talents in world quests/pvp. With warmode on, my disc priest has access to Archangel that increases healing/absorbs by 30% or a talent that causes smite to reduce the cooldown of penance. On the rogue that I am leveling, I have access to a talent that provides 35% crit rating while in stealth or shadow dance. Access to those talents can make a huge different for leveling.

The caveat or drawback of warmode is that unless you join a large guild that can fill a raid and hop across servers, warmode is a constant gank fest. Should you attempt to play solo with warmode, you are guaranteed to run into groups of 5, 10, and 40 gankers. Said gankers also typically bring net guns that can knock you off your flying mount and rogues. Furthermore, I have heard that the warmode system sucks for PVE players, because the zones are so crowded with other PVE players that questing mobs are constantly depleted. In contrast, only a portion of players activate warmode, and so the zones are yours for the taking.

Also, although the racials are mediocre, the Lightforged in the heritage armor are nice. My disc priest manages to look like a cleric/paladin in heavy armor.

They removed PVP servers and replaced them with "Warmode?" What kind of pussy shit is that? Is this some plan to slowly ease players into being on a megaserver or is this Blizzard catering to faggot ERPers and soccer moms with helmet head hairstyles? Hunting people down and murdering them in unfair ways is a hallmark of MMORPGs.

I thought the same thing, but Darkshore is amazing at the moment. The PVE players are funneled into zones and must compete for mobs, or turn warmode on. Once warmode is activated, you are placed in a phase solely with other warmode players. Questing becomes like the Most Dangerous Game, being hunted by packs of enemy players, or you join a big group and fend them off. 60-100 vs 60-100 player battles have been my experience these last few days. The fact that warmode players are sectioned off with themselves has made world pvp more aggressive in my opinion. At every turn, I have to fight off horde players, especially horde rogues.

If the gear stays competitive in warmode due to airdrops, BFA could shape up to be a decent expansion.

Where them classic servers at for fucks sake. I want to make some proper ass pvp movies, in 144p with gay alternative music meekly blaring in the background.

Good'ol days

World of Roguecraft and Unbreakable Warlord make me nostalgic for vanilla.

 

[Keshik]

Where them classic servers at for fucks sake. I want to make some proper ass pvp movies, in 144p with gay alternative music meekly blaring in the background.

I would prefer those over the EDM I anticipate the community today will use.

 

[Cyberarmy]

I was searching for that nutty undead frost mage who can kite other players to eternity but instead I found this

 

[Grunker]

Welcome to 12 years ago