World of Whorecraft: Battle for Asseroth

[Caim]

I remember when WoD launched I played day 1 right up until the part where you get onto the boat to sail to where you found your garrison... only for the boat not moving and the several dozens of us players being quite upset with this.

 

[Great Deceiver]

Thinking about it, the artifact weapons seem more and more like a really poor version of Everquest's epic weapon quests. In that game, you had to travel around the gameworld, across multiple zones, dungeon and even raid zones doing specific objectives to finally get a pretty powerful upgrade for your character. It wasn't a given, wasn't easy and usually took a long time.

Here, you're given an AWSUM artifact weapon within the first couple of hours. Which means every single player character of your spec will have and use exactly the same weapon.

Who the fuck comes up with these things?

 

[Revenant]

Thinking about it, the artifact weapons seem more and more like a really poor version of Everquest's epic weapon quests. In that game, you had to travel around the gameworld, across multiple zones, dungeon and even raid zones doing specific objectives to finally get a pretty powerful upgrade for your character. It wasn't a given, wasn't easy and usually took a long time.

Here, you're given an AWSUM artifact weapon within the first couple of hours. Which means every single player character of your spec will have and use exactly the same weapon.

You seem to contradict yourself in these two paragraphs and therefore I don't understand what's your problem. You make a point claiming that artifacts are somehow special and then immediately claim that once everyone has the same artifacts, they are no longer special, which is obviously true. What's bad about that, then? Functionally, all that artifacts do is make the players grind incremental upgrades over a long time (since you want all artifact traits maximized anyway, the appearance of customization besides sockets is merely an illusion). Is that any different from replacing numerous traditional weapons, shields and off-hands, their gems and enchants during the course of an expansion? Some would say yes, but I think it's merely a question of streamlining and convenience, in which case the artifacts obviously are a superior choice because obtaining weapons and especially off-hands were a pain in the ass because of scarcity or downright absence of their welfare tokens. Other than that, only lorefags would care about omg everyonez wielding ein ashbringer, but you can transmogrify the appearance of artifacts so it wouldn't be an issue for any sane player.

 

[Metro]

Took a look at the final pass of the 'legendary' items. They seem a lot tamer than the beta builds. It's cool they have names and some lore behind them (attached to various characters) but I find them bland and uninteresting. It's the worst of both worlds: On the one hand raiders feel compelled to 'farm' for them since they are OMG-BEST-IN-SLOT; on the other non-raiders probably aren't thrilled with them since the bonuses are mostly relevant (there are a few exceptions) in a raid setting or, at least, high level Mythic+ dungeons. A much better compromise would have been to keep the high ilevel and stats but make the bonuses non-raid related and FUN.

Examples:

(Insert wacky name here) Rogue gloves - +5% gold from pickpocketing/looting and permanent bling/raining gold visual effect on your character.
Tanking ring - 5% chance on block/parry/dodge to summon some protective minion that casts a random buff on your/your party.

 

[Great Deceiver]

You seem to contradict yourself in these two paragraphs and therefore I don't understand what's your problem. You make a point claiming that artifacts are somehow special and then immediately claim that once everyone has the same artifacts, they are no longer special, which is obviously true.

There is no contradiction at all in my argument - my point was the epic weapons in Everquest were special precisely because not everyone had them (as they came out - not even close) - acquiring them was a convoluted, difficult and sometimes tedious process. The power spike they represented was justified by a suitable journey of attainment. It triggered an appropriate and satisfying reward response. In addition, they were not the only obvious choice for your character, depending on builds - there were alternatives.

Everyone being instantly and necessarily given artifact weapons (which are ostensibly the most powerful weapons you'll have over the course of this expansion) as the first thing they do in Legion is the diametrical opposite of that - it's banal, and shit, and boring.

I don't give a shit about "lore" or whatever the fuck else you seem to be going on about.

it's merely a question of streamlining and convenience

You're definitely the target audience, then. I prefer things not to be so streamlined.

 

[Revenant]

I'd bother answering your post, but after you stated that the only weapons available to players over the course of this expansion are the most powerful weapons... Well I just won't.

 

[Great Deceiver]

I'd bother answering your post, but after you stated that the only weapons available to players over the course of this expansion are the most powerful weapons... Well I just won't.

You really have a deep-seated reading comprehension problem that you'd be well advised to look into. Have a good day.

 

[GarfunkeL]

No raids available yet, first one is to open late in September, next early next year. So people do the apparently really pretty zones to level up and then they're stuck doing Garrison missions.

 

[Black_Willow]

No raids available yet, first one is to open late in September, next early next year. So people do the apparently really pretty zones to level up and then they're stuck doing Garrison missions.

You know, there are those things called "Dungeons"...

 

[Hoaxmetal]

They reduced the amount of farmville missions now so you don't have to sperg about them like in WoD.

 

[GarfunkeL]

No raids available yet, first one is to open late in September, next early next year. So people do the apparently really pretty zones to level up and then they're stuck doing Garrison missions.

You know, there are those things called "Dungeons"...

Sure, you'll run the couple of times but that's it. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but there is no longer any need to gather gear from dungeons to be able to raid.

 

[Metro]

No raids available yet, first one is to open late in September, next early next year. So people do the apparently really pretty zones to level up and then they're stuck doing Garrison missions.

So in that sense it's like TBC where it took a couple of weeks of doing heroic dungeons and some Karazhan/Gruul/Mag before going into Karazhan. And even then Kara was a 10 person raid people did along with Gruul and Mag to gear up for the proper sized raids of SSC and TK. Wrath was the first expansion where I recall people jumping into the first proper sized raid tier quickly and a lot of that had to do with the fact that people already knew Naxx mechanics.

 

[GarfunkeL]

That's a really weird way to put it. TBC had entire T4 and T5 open from Day 1 - that's Kara/Gruul/Mag and TK & SSC - that's five raids. Well, Gruul & Mag were pretty short so let's call it four raids. So the pace was entirely up to the guilds. I really can't see the comparison here, with ZERO raids open on Day 1, ONE raid coming in 3 weeks and the SECOND raid coming in 5-6 months.

 

[Black_Willow]

No raids available yet, first one is to open late in September, next early next year. So people do the apparently really pretty zones to level up and then they're stuck doing Garrison missions.

You know, there are those things called "Dungeons"...

Sure, you'll run the couple of times but that's it. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but there is no longer any need to gather gear from dungeons to be able to raid.

What's the basis for that assumption? AFAIK if you don't want to delve into the cesspool that is LFR then dungeon are a p. good way to gear up before normal+ raiding. And you also have mythic+ dungeons with increased difficulty, but also better loot (up to the item level of mythic raids).

 

[GarfunkeL]

As I've understood things - I haven't played WoW since Wrath so this is hearsay - normal raiding is easy enough that you can just delve in with whatever gear you've collected by the time you hit max level.

 

[Caim]

They reduced the amount of farmville missions now so you don't have to sperg about them like in WoD.

So there's even less content this time.

 

[Lacrymas]

I've been playing vanilla recently (last few months) and there isn't much to do apart from raids once you gear up in dungeons (PvP is a joke in vanilla). I make all my money off of AH, so there's no need for me to farm and I just log in to check that and only play during raid times. I still like it and will continue to raid, that can't be said about retail. The lack of content thing isn't WoW's problem, it's the general design and gamey, mobile-like systems they introduced over the years that trivialize the game. MMOs can't afford to be trivial. I won't be trying out Legion, because I know it's the same old, same old that we've come to expect from Blizzard during the past decade.

 

[Coma White]

So people do the apparently really pretty zones to level up and then they're stuck doing Garrison missions.

Will someone with the expansion elaborate on this? I hear these fucking missions are in Legion, but that they've been scaled back. Straight up, how bad is it?

 

[Metro]

That's a really weird way to put it. TBC had entire T4 and T5 open from Day 1 - that's Kara/Gruul/Mag and TK & SSC - that's five raids. Well, Gruul & Mag were pretty short so let's call it four raids. So the pace was entirely up to the guilds. I really can't see the comparison here, with ZERO raids open on Day 1, ONE raid coming in 3 weeks and the SECOND raid coming in 5-6 months.

The comparison is that people weren't doing TK and SSC until about a month into TBC. I know. I played then and was in a top 20 or so US guild. And even then Kael and I believe even Vashj were slightly buggy and nigh unbeatable for several weeks. On Kael specifically one of his advisors, Thaladred I think, would actually blink step to his target and one shot them. Karazhan was a ten man raid, very casual and not at all difficult.

TBC launched in January 16th 2007, world first kills on the FIRST boss in SSC weren't until February 20th. World first Vashj kills weren't until the end of March/May.

Is there less raiding content than before? Sure, that's been true for awhile now. But you're grossly exaggerating the whole 'zomg can't do a raid for three weeks' issue. I know you're a huge private server shill, but your memories of the 'good ol' days' are rose-colored at best.

 

[Hoaxmetal]

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

Man, the pvp and mythic dungeons and raids and shit looks fun.

You know what isn't fun? Spending 20 hours to level (which must be done SOLO if you want to level at a reasonable rate) and MONTHS to gear up/grind artifact power necessary to participate in fun content.

There are so many who feel some sense of accomplishment by dumping DAYS of real time into the game to "get ahead" and have 5 points higher item level or 3 more artifact talents. Guess what? If you don't play WoW like an overtime job you're never going to be invited to participate in mythic dungeon/raid runs or rated BGs or arenas. You get to run around in ezmode dungeon/raid finder or get stomped on in casual BG/arena.

WoW really hasn't changed since vanilla, it's still the same bullshit time sink. The game isn't skill based, it's a "whoever wastes more of their life grinding dumb crap wins" system. This sense of accomplishment is false. You're not getting any better at the game by killing the same ez NPCs 100000000 times for artifact power. All you're getting is a 2% boost to your rotation DPS that allows you to participate in some higher level form of the same shit.

Dumb fucking game design I tell ya

 

[Coma White]

WoW really hasn't changed since vanilla

 

[GarfunkeL]

That's a really weird way to put it. TBC had entire T4 and T5 open from Day 1 - that's Kara/Gruul/Mag and TK & SSC - that's five raids. Well, Gruul & Mag were pretty short so let's call it four raids. So the pace was entirely up to the guilds. I really can't see the comparison here, with ZERO raids open on Day 1, ONE raid coming in 3 weeks and the SECOND raid coming in 5-6 months.

The comparison is that people weren't doing TK and SSC until about a month into TBC. I know. I played then and was in a top 20 or so US guild. And even then Kael and I believe even Vashj were slightly buggy and nigh unbeatable for several weeks. On Kael specifically one of his advisors, Thaladred I think, would actually blink step to his target and one shot them. Karazhan was a ten man raid, very casual and not at all difficult.

TBC launched in January 16th 2007, world first kills on the FIRST boss in SSC weren't until February 20th. World first Vashj kills weren't until the end of March/May.

Is there less raiding content than before? Sure, that's been true for awhile now. But you're grossly exaggerating the whole 'zomg can't do a raid for three weeks' issue. I know you're a huge private server shill, but your memories of the 'good ol' days' are rose-colored at best.

You're missing my fucking point in your championing for retail. In TBC those raids were all open and the progress through them depended on guilds, once bugs were fixed. You're the one who brought up a comparison, in order to somehow defend Blizzard.

 

[Metro]

You have no point: guilds weren't doing those raids for three or four weeks, anyway. Plenty of legitimate reasons to take Blizzard to task -- a three week delay on raids opening isn't one of them.

 

[Naraya]

Man, the pvp and mythic dungeons and raids and shit looks fun.

You know what isn't fun? Spending 20 hours to level (which must be done SOLO if you want to level at a reasonable rate) and MONTHS to gear up/grind artifact power necessary to participate in fun content.

There are so many who feel some sense of accomplishment by dumping DAYS of real time into the game to "get ahead" and have 5 points higher item level or 3 more artifact talents. Guess what? If you don't play WoW like an overtime job you're never going to be invited to participate in mythic dungeon/raid runs or rated BGs or arenas. You get to run around in ezmode dungeon/raid finder or get stomped on in casual BG/arena.

WoW really hasn't changed since vanilla, it's still the same bullshit time sink. The game isn't skill based, it's a "whoever wastes more of their life grinding dumb crap wins" system. This sense of accomplishment is false. You're not getting any better at the game by killing the same ez NPCs 100000000 times for artifact power. All you're getting is a 2% boost to your rotation DPS that allows you to participate in some higher level form of the same shit.

Dumb fucking game design I tell ya

So in short: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber

Works wonders.