Why psions are so rare in RPG's?

[DraQ]

psionics is not magic for the same reason punching someone isn't magic
psionics comes from within, not without

I cast FIST.

 

[Humbaba]

psionics is not magic for the same reason punching someone isn't magic
psionics comes from within, not without

>refuses to elaborate further

 

[Maxwell's Demon]

All that high-fructose corn syrup in your sharter diet has destroyed your brain.

Fructose is about twice as sweet as sucrose and about one half the calories. That means soft drinks that contain high fructose corn syrup instead of table sugar are just as sweet and contain about one quarter the number of calories. Fun fact: sucrose is a disaccharide that contains fructose.

 

[Moaning_Clock]

Priests are mages, clerics are mages, psionics are mages, sorcerers are mages, wizards are mages and mages are just pretentious archers.

 

[Urthor]

Because Psions are about invisible brain powers, they're a class designed for tabletop.

Psions work when the only "graphics" for your RPG are provided as Gary Gygax intended, via cardboard tokens and LSD.

"Gamers" demand photorealistic explosions.

 

[Nano]

You can drone on all you want about how psionic powers come from "within" or whatever, the reality is that there's barely anything differentiating them from regular arcane and divine spells.

 

[J1M]

Okay, so I'm gonna come out of the closet: I like the idea of psions. (sorry Delt) But I'm going to apply some Asimovian stuff over here, because I'm weird, and this is the Codex.

I define, in my brain (no pun intended), psionics as the art of influencing your surroundings with your brain. Which means converting energy from you into something else that either influences people or moves things. So it should be hybrid class. Main attribute should be CON actually (sickly person that can't convert energy properly shouldn't be a psion). And secondary, any INT, WIS or CHA - whichever is higher.




In any case, psions are hard to work with because everyone has a different opinion on why the human mind is great. Is it the raw speed and computational power of our brains that allows even a child to dish out amazing statements, or learn several languages lightning fast? Is it the wisdom it stores, that allows your grandpa to destroy you in chess, seeing your defeat 15 moves ahead? Is the willpower and force of presence to push others into doing great things?
So many answers. Difficult to nail. Really.
Not surprising D&D has had a rough time with it.

CON as primary stat is the best idea so far. A psionics brain is the whole body!

 

[Gradenmayer]

psionics is not magic for the same reason punching someone isn't magic
psionics comes from within, not without

So it is just a magic with different origin point. Basically Ki, but is totally different. Got it.

"Monks harness this power within themselves to create magical effects"

 

[The_Mask]

In one of the later books of The Foundation, the members of the 2nd Foundation, which were, essentially, psions... were frequently encouraged to exercise in order to maintain good cardio and stamina.

Their location was also set on Trantor, which had become a farm planet, that gave them access to healthy food, which further enouncianted the idea.

I'm not sure if you're sarcastic Jim. Or if you read Asimov. Or my whole post even. But I was serious.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Psions are lame in fantasy settings. If you want to have your character be a special snowflake with innate powers above those of the average Joe, just get a sorcerer whose powers derive from his fancy bloodline.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

psionics is not magic for the same reason punching someone isn't magic
psionics comes from within, not without

So it is just a magic with different origin point. Basically Ki, but is totally different. Got it.

"Monks harness this power within themselves to create magical effects"

ki doesn't come from within per the 5e phb, it's an external force

many of their attacks that use ki are explicitly deemed 'magical' in nature

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Okay, so I'm gonna come out of the closet: I like the idea of psions. (sorry Delt) But I'm going to apply some Asimovian stuff over here, because I'm weird, and this is the Codex.

I define, in my brain (no pun intended), psionics as the art of influencing your surroundings with your brain. Which means converting energy from you into something else that either influences people or moves things. So it should be hybrid class. Main attribute should be CON actually (sickly person that can't convert energy properly shouldn't be a psion). And secondary, any INT, WIS or CHA - whichever is higher.




In any case, psions are hard to work with because everyone has a different opinion on why the human mind is great. Is it the raw speed and computational power of our brains that allows even a child to dish out amazing statements, or learn several languages lightning fast? Is it the wisdom it stores, that allows your grandpa to destroy you in chess, seeing your defeat 15 moves ahead? Is the willpower and force of presence to push others into doing great things?
So many answers. Difficult to nail. Really.
Not surprising D&D has had a rough time with it.

CON as primary stat is the best idea so far. A psionics brain is the whole body!

...of course CON is their primary stat?

 

[Humbaba]

Fructose is about twice as sweet as sucrose and about one half the calories. That means soft drinks that contain high fructose corn syrup instead of table sugar are just as sweet and contain about one quarter the number of calories. Fun fact: sucrose is a disaccharide that contains fructose.

"THAYUT MUHST MANE EETS HALTHAY!" *proceeds to pour corn syrup into every single food there is*

I'm sorry Texas Red but there's a good reason why your country is so fucking obese and retarded.

 

[Gradenmayer]

psionics is not magic for the same reason punching someone isn't magic
psionics comes from within, not without

So it is just a magic with different origin point. Basically Ki, but is totally different. Got it.

"Monks harness this power within themselves to create magical effects"

ki doesn't come from within per the 5e phb, it's an external force

many of their attacks that use ki are explicitly deemed 'magical' in nature

In 4e monk literally was a Psionic class. So by your logic psi power comes from without as well.

D&D 4th Edition introduced the Psionic power source in the Player's Handbook 3, which includes the Psion, Battlemind, Ardent, and Monk classes

 

[SoupNazi]

Yeah 4E is an excellent resource

 

[Gradenmayer]

Yeah 4E is an excellent resource

4e being the worst edition isn't relevant here tho. So ye, it is an excellent source.

 

[JamesDixon]

psionics is not magic for the same reason punching someone isn't magic
psionics comes from within, not without

So it is just a magic with different origin point. Basically Ki, but is totally different. Got it.

"Monks harness this power within themselves to create magical effects"

ki doesn't come from within per the 5e phb, it's an external force

many of their attacks that use ki are explicitly deemed 'magical' in nature

In 4e monk literally was a Psionic class. So by your logic psi power comes from without as well.

D&D 4th Edition introduced the Psionic power source in the Player's Handbook 3, which includes the Psion, Battlemind, Ardent, and Monk classes

Yes let's use an invalid comparison logical fallacy to make a point.

It really comes down to editions. When Monks were first introduced in AD&D 1E and continued to AD&D 2E they've always been a priest class. Other editions changed it. I don't consider any of the WotC branded D&D systems to be actually D&D as it shares nothing in common with the original system written by Gary and company.

 

[SoupNazi]

No, it's completely irrelevant and in fact, so is any other edition, because a lot of the people here have presented their idea for what psions could be, and how they could be considered different from mages and wizards. It's pointless to refer to existing material, because Victor made the topic about, well, the existing material. My understanding is that it's complaint about both the existing and the non-existence of psions in existing games. It's completely pointless to discuss the "merits" of existing psions, because they suck and are basically non-existent because they suck, and because as they stand, they appear too similar to mages.

I on the other hand think that they can be made vastly different, and that's I think where the interesting discussion lies, not in saying "hurr durr but psions are different to your idea in the books durr hurr" over and over again.

 

[JamesDixon]

No, it's completely irrelevant and in fact, so is any other edition, because a lot of the people here have presented their idea for what psions could be, and how they could be considered different from mages and wizards. It's pointless to refer to existing material, because Victor made the topic about, well, the existing material. My understanding is that it's complaint about both the existing and the non-existence of psions in existing games. It's completely pointless to discuss the "merits" of existing psions, because they suck and are basically non-existent because they suck, and because as they stand, they appear too similar to mages.

I on the other hand think that they can be made vastly different, and that's I think where the interesting discussion lies, not in saying "hurr durr but psions are different to your idea in the books durr hurr" over and over again.

I believe we got hung up on the specific editions mentioned in the OP. It devolved from there.

 

[Maxwell's Demon]

"THAYUT MUHST MANE EETS HALTHAY!" *proceeds to pour corn syrup into every single food there is*

I'm sorry Texas Red but there's a good reason why your country is so fucking obese and retarded.

People are fat because they eat too much. Why are you advocating eating even more?

 

[DraQ]

Priests are mages, clerics are mages, psionics are mages, sorcerers are mages, wizards are mages and mages are just pretentious archers.

Powerwalks across the nearest body of water using pretentious archery.

Not so fast.

 

[0sacred]

Psionics offer ways of manipulating the world that are 1) hard to implement and 2) easily break the flow of quests. Which is why psionics were expressly warned against in Ravenloft campaign books.

Dark Sun had psionics but they didn't do anything regular magic couldn't have done. Augmenting damage and some crowd control. TRUE psionics that allow for mindreading/ scrying and manipulation of objects at a distance would be great.

 

[Humbaba]

People are fat because they eat too much. Why are you advocating eating even more?

 

[J1M]

In one of the later books of The Foundation, the members of the 2nd Foundation, which were, essentially, psions... were frequently encouraged to exercise in order to maintain good cardio and stamina.

Their location was also set on Trantor, which had become a farm planet, that gave them access to healthy food, which further enouncianted the idea.

I'm not sure if you're sarcastic Jim. Or if you read Asimov. Or my whole post even. But I was serious.

I have read all of Asimov.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Priests are mages, clerics are mages, psionics are mages, sorcerers are mages, wizards are mages and mages are just pretentious archers.

That's what Sawyerists are trying to make us believe!
But they will be forgotten by RPG history, they're merely potholes on the RPG highway.