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Elder Scrolls Why Morrowind is a bad RPG

orcinator

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Threshold questions: Yeah, I had a fucking ball; and my magic man and my warrior feel pretty different! So yeag, threshold passed.
Is it really a "build" when you can be a master mage and master warrior once you play long enough? Seems more like a preference than a "build" which is also the case for Fallout New Vegas where you can easily be great at everything.
 
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You can edit a single variable in the Construction Set and take twice as many points to level up, which will also limit your max level by roughly half. There are also mods that limit your attributes and skills based on your initial build.
 

MerchantKing

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Threshold questions: Yeah, I had a fucking ball; and my magic man and my warrior feel pretty different! So yeag, threshold passed.
Is it really a "build" when you can be a master mage and master warrior once you play long enough? Seems more like a preference than a "build" which is also the case for Fallout New Vegas where you can easily be great at everything.
It's just a preference. The only thing that class does in morrowind is determine what skill increases contribute to level ups and what starting bonuses you get from the class.
 

MerchantKing

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You can edit a single variable in the Construction Set and take twice as many points to level up, which will also limit your max level by roughly half. There are also mods that limit your attributes and skills based on your initial build.
"This game is good if I mod it!"
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
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With four more years of experience on Morrowind and New Vegas, my opinion is this: who cares about what my opinion is, just play the game you want, you fucking nerds.
 

DJOGamer PT

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It's a finely polished FO3... they did what they could with what they got, and the limited time that they had.

make_the_best_of_things.png
The game is only bad in regards to the mechanical side of combat (which is due to engine)
Exploration, world design, quests, items, enemy design, role-playing systems and writing are all good to great
Calling the game shit for failling one out of many other equally important aspects is retarded
 

DJOGamer PT

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an action RPG can never be a "true" RPG because there is too much reliance on the player's agility.
If by "true RPG" you mean "like p&p", then cRPG's fail in that regard as well
Role Playing Videogames are fundamentally distinct from the tabletop medium and as such they don't share the same design principles and goals - specially considering the latter is a social game

There are certain Codexers for whom it's combat that makes an RPG.
This logic only makes sense if said RPG holds combat as it's most important gameplay element
 

Zlaja

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who cares about what my opinion is, just play the game you want, you fucking nerds

Since you talked shit about Morrowind, and that game happens to be in my top 10 games list, that means you've personally insulted me. At that point, the only thing that can restore my honour is a dual to the death with bare knuckles.
 

HarveyBirdman

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Threshold questions: Yeah, I had a fucking ball; and my magic man and my warrior feel pretty different! So yeag, threshold passed.
Is it really a "build" when you can be a master mage and master warrior once you play long enough? Seems more like a preference than a "build" which is also the case for Fallout New Vegas where you can easily be great at everything.
I think yes, because you play your build for most of the game. Becoming a master of all is basically a post-game -- you've done pretty much everything by that point.

Also, becoming a master of all in Morrowind takes an especially long time if you level like a normal person instead of min/max power leveling.
 

mediocrepoet

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Calling the game shit for failling one out of many other equally important aspects is retarded
There are certain Codexers for whom it's combat that makes an RPG.

If combat is bad enough in a game, I have a hard time playing it, despite being into exploration, etc.

I usually bounce off Morrowind at some point because how terrible the combat is. I think I need to play non-melee types and maybe it'll bug me less for Morrowind in particular. I had a good time with the usual wandering around and raiding tombs though.
 

Lemming42

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I played Tamriel Rebuilt and another mod that adds the Twin Lamps as a joinable faction recently, and it's not even funny how much better they both were than the vanilla content. Whoever it was at Bethesda that wrote Morrowind's quests genuinely deserves a kick in the nuts, because they're so inane and boring, and modders have proven that it really wouldn't have taken much effort at all to come up with far better stuff.

I usually bounce off Morrowind at some point because how terrible the combat is. I think I need to play non-melee types and maybe it'll bug me less for Morrowind in particular. I had a good time with the usual wandering around and raiding tombs though.
Just power through to like level 8 - 10 (which doesn't take long) and combat becomes mostly irrelevant since you're steamrolling everything. I don't think there's any way to make it actually fun or interesting, the best you can do is just become powerful enough quickly enough that every combat encounter ends before it has a chance to become tedious. Magic lets you piss around with the spellmaker, but the main purpose of the spellmaker is to come up with ludicrously broken shit that again serves the ultimate purpose of letting you end combat ASAP.

You could also try to play as a stealth-mage to avoid combat as much as possible, which I've done, but that's obviously not how the game is intended to be played, and just ends up revealing that the stealth system is the worst one ever made for a videogame. You can essentially bypass the stealth by just casting invisibility on yourself to walk past NPCs who stand there like wooden dummies while you steal their life savings, but that represents its own whole new realm of boredom.
 

NecroLord

Dumbfuck!
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I played Tamriel Rebuilt and another mod that adds the Twin Lamps as a joinable faction recently, and it's not even funny how much better they both were than the vanilla content. Whoever it was at Bethesda that wrote Morrowind's quests genuinely deserves a kick in the nuts, because they're so inane and boring, and modders have proven that it really wouldn't have taken much effort at all to come up with far better stuff.

I usually bounce off Morrowind at some point because how terrible the combat is. I think I need to play non-melee types and maybe it'll bug me less for Morrowind in particular. I had a good time with the usual wandering around and raiding tombs though.
Just power through to like level 8 - 10 (which doesn't take long) and combat becomes mostly irrelevant since you're steamrolling everything. I don't think there's any way to make it actually fun or interesting, the best you can do is just become powerful enough quickly enough that every combat encounter ends before it has a chance to become tedious. Magic lets you piss around with the spellmaker, but the main purpose of the spellmaker is to come up with ludicrously broken shit that again serves the ultimate purpose of letting you end combat ASAP.

You could also try to play as a stealth-mage to avoid combat as much as possible, which I've done, but that's obviously not how the game is intended to be played, and just ends up revealing that the stealth system is the worst one ever made for a videogame. You can essentially bypass the stealth by just casting invisibility on yourself to walk past NPCs who stand there like wooden dummies while you steal their life savings, but that represents its own whole new realm of boredom.
Has the Calm spell been fixed?
I know it's fixed in the unofficial patches, but in vanilla it is straight out broken. You only needed a low magnitude to get the job done.
 

mediocrepoet

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I played Tamriel Rebuilt and another mod that adds the Twin Lamps as a joinable faction recently, and it's not even funny how much better they both were than the vanilla content. Whoever it was at Bethesda that wrote Morrowind's quests genuinely deserves a kick in the nuts, because they're so inane and boring, and modders have proven that it really wouldn't have taken much effort at all to come up with far better stuff.

I usually bounce off Morrowind at some point because how terrible the combat is. I think I need to play non-melee types and maybe it'll bug me less for Morrowind in particular. I had a good time with the usual wandering around and raiding tombs though.
Just power through to like level 8 - 10 (which doesn't take long) and combat becomes mostly irrelevant since you're steamrolling everything. I don't think there's any way to make it actually fun or interesting, the best you can do is just become powerful enough quickly enough that every combat encounter ends before it has a chance to become tedious. Magic lets you piss around with the spellmaker, but the main purpose of the spellmaker is to come up with ludicrously broken shit that again serves the ultimate purpose of letting you end combat ASAP.

You could also try to play as a stealth-mage to avoid combat as much as possible, which I've done, but that's obviously not how the game is intended to be played, and just ends up revealing that the stealth system is the worst one ever made for a videogame. You can essentially bypass the stealth by just casting invisibility on yourself to walk past NPCs who stand there like wooden dummies while you steal their life savings, but that represents its own whole new realm of boredom.

Yeah, this is why, ironically, despite liking a lot of Morrowind's strengths, I have a better time wandering around the later more dumbed down versions of TES simply because the combat is good enough* not to bug me, so I can just roll around fighting wolves and picking flowers or whatever.

* It's not good, but it doesn't feel like it's actively kicking me in the balls either.
 

Funposter

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I played Tamriel Rebuilt and another mod that adds the Twin Lamps as a joinable faction recently, and it's not even funny how much better they both were than the vanilla content. Whoever it was at Bethesda that wrote Morrowind's quests genuinely deserves a kick in the nuts, because they're so inane and boring, and modders have proven that it really wouldn't have taken much effort at all to come up with far better stuff.
TR's good quests are based on a framework of twenty years of development and an evolving design ethos, which is why they're better. Play the early stuff from 2006-2010. Most of it sucks just as much as vanilla.
 

Zlaja

Arcane
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Swedex
I have a better time wandering around the later more dumbed down versions of TES simply because the combat is good enough* not to bug me

While Morrowind's melee combat feels wooden as fuck, I still prefer it over melee combat in Oblivion and Skyrim, because in those later games the melee combat is such a fucking slog. Never had issues with the dice rolls system, and when you do hit your enemy in Morrowind, it felt satisfying to hear that hit sound and see the blood splatter.
 

mediocrepoet

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I have a better time wandering around the later more dumbed down versions of TES simply because the combat is good enough* not to bug me

While Morrowind's melee combat feels wooden as fuck, I still prefer it over melee combat in Oblivion and Skyrim, because in those later games the melee combat is such a fucking slog. Never had issues with the dice rolls system, and when you do hit your enemy in Morrowind, it felt satisfying to hear that hit sound and see the blood splatter.

Yeah, I can see that. For me it's just that at low levels the amount of whiffing and stamina management is brutal. It'd probably bug me less if it was more abstracted (like isometric low level D&D) or if you didn't have to manage stamina. Later on once you can start hitting more reliably and/or have more stamina, I expect it'd bug me less.
 

Funposter

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I have a better time wandering around the later more dumbed down versions of TES simply because the combat is good enough* not to bug me

While Morrowind's melee combat feels wooden as fuck, I still prefer it over melee combat in Oblivion and Skyrim, because in those later games the melee combat is such a fucking slog. Never had issues with the dice rolls system, and when you do hit your enemy in Morrowind, it felt satisfying to hear that hit sound and see the blood splatter.

Yeah, I can see that. For me it's just that at low levels the amount of whiffing and stamina management is brutal. It'd probably bug me less if it was more abstracted (like isometric low level D&D) or if you didn't have to manage stamina. Later on once you can start hitting more reliably and/or have more stamina, I expect it'd bug me less.
There's a lot that you can do to alleviate it, even at low levels. Restore Fatigue potions are plentiful and cheap (free for Fighter's Guild members) and the most efficient race+class combos will have you starting with a weapon skill of 45-50. Dark Elves, Nords and Imperials all get a +10 with a melee weapon, and Redguards get +15. Khajiit also get +15 with H2H but that sort of doesn't count.
 

Old Hans

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Oct 10, 2011
Messages
2,124
Yeah, I can see that. For me it's just that at low levels the amount of whiffing and stamina management is brutal.
you hit just fine unless you're one of those poeple who doesnt take any weapon skills and then complains that they miss all the time with their 0 skill short blade iron dagger

ps. the biggest downside to morrowind IMO is the static nature of npcs. I looked inside the creation kit and the npc routine is very basic. all they can do is wander around path nodes. the Oblivion radiant AI was such a big leap
 
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Vic

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morrowind is easy/dumb as fuck you just have to mind stats as others said. most fun comes from exploration not from the retarded combat
 

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